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  1. #1331
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Really? I've found that outarguing an INTJ really isn't that hard with their need for closure
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  2. #1332
    unscannable Tigerlily's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satine View Post
    Really? I've found that outarguing an INTJ really isn't that hard with their need for closure
    It goes without saying that anything is possible when sex is involved.
    Time is a delicate mistress.

  3. #1333
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    I'm one of the advocates against this partnership. Satine is busy trying to convince me otherwise and failing. For information on why I find this an unnatural pairing feel free to contact me.

    A lot of the points in this thread do address many of the positives and negatives from the pairing in good detail.

  4. #1334
    Member stormyapril's Avatar
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    It works okay. Perhaps the ISTJ:ENFP match might be even easier but would lack the abstract intuitive conversations.

    The Te/Fi bridge simplifies communication and value judgment. There may not always be agreement, but the shared language and frame prevents confusion during discussion of the disagreement.

    The biggest challenge is the Ni:Si difference. The Si locks the INTJ into one, isolated Ni context, trapping them, leaving them feeling as though the Ne dom thinks they are always right. The INTJ keeps trying to displace core Si generalized rules with changing Ni contexts, thus giving the impression of ignoring previously agreed upon definitions or well understood Ne patterns. This leaves the Ne dom with no set Si foundation from which to Ne expand upon and perceiving the Ni dom as being dismissive.

    On the positive side, the Ni Dom can pass new universal Ni truths which can replace old Si generalized truths, yielding whole new Ne playgrounds to explore. The Ne dom can pass the Ni dom Ne-isms which morph into new Ni contexts to view the problem through.

    Word has it that the honesty, integrity, innocence, the direct, straightforward, open communication, the touching and holding, the commitment, the simultaneous ownership of responsibility and individual emotions, all make up for the perceptional differences.

  5. #1335
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    Quote Originally Posted by stormyapril View Post
    The biggest challenge is the Ni:Si difference. The Si locks the INTJ into one, isolated Ni context, trapping them, leaving them feeling as though the Ne dom thinks they are always right.
    Perhaps I'm being dumb, but you mean INTJ -> Se, right? Or are you throwing Socionics at us?

  6. #1336
    Member stormyapril's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    Perhaps I'm being dumb, but you mean INTJ -> Se, right? Or are you throwing Socionics at us?
    INTJs, dumb?

    See clarification:
    "The biggest challenge is the Ni:Si difference. The (ENFP's) Si locks the INTJ into one, isolated, overly detailed Ni context, trapping them, leaving them feeling as though the Ne dom thinks they are always right."

    Please feel free to clarify of course as you know your own mind best and the above can only be an approximation based upon observations.

  7. #1337
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    Quote Originally Posted by stormyapril View Post
    INTJs, dumb?

    See clarification:
    "The biggest challenge is the Ni:Si difference. The (ENFP's) Si locks the INTJ into one, isolated, overly detailed Ni context, trapping them, leaving them feeling as though the Ne dom thinks they are always right."

    Please feel free to clarify of course as you know your own mind best and the above can only be an approximation based upon observations.
    Thank you, it all makes sense now!

  8. #1338
    Member stormyapril's Avatar
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    Hi Jim,

    Assuming sarcasm....here let me try again....very early in this thread the Si question was raised...this is an attempt at an answer.

    Before getting in a relationship with an INTJ, I assumed it would be fairly trouble free based upon interactions I had in the past with INTJ friends. It retrospect that was premature. I was in a LTR with an ISTP for 8 years, so I had already learned how to give an introvert time and space alone and how to be less sensitive to intentional or unintentional sarcasm or logical critique. I/E vs T/F diffs had been worked through and learned, so these were not an issue.

    The Te and Fi make things really simple (as compared to trying to date an Fe/Ti person). It drastically simplifies emotional and logical communication with no misunderstandings about motive or intent arising. Of course the same can be said for two XNTJs dating as well.

    Emotional communication is actually very simple and easy. It just flows. I suspect we bring out the innocent child inside of INTJs because we just dump Fi at them via Ne.

    It can become harder when trying to have logical Te discussions, especially if the subject is one in which you both have a very strong interest and knowledge base due to the diffs in N and S.

    Things I have had to learn:
    1. Give the INTJ space to use Ni without Ne jumping off topic. This means being quiet at times and following the Ni.

    2. Give the INTJ space to use Ni, even if it conflicts with my Si-hardbound version of the idea. This can be really hard on topics I am very well versed in. Learning about Ni context shifting was very valuable, as it first it seemed like all of my past knowledge had been disregarded in one swoop. It kind of was, but just for the time being...

    3. The INTJ likes to go out and do physical activities-Se. I like to stay home and read-Si. Because I love him, I try and do the things that he enjoys, even if they wouldnt be my first choice in hobbies.

    4. I have to detach emotionally from my ideas and recognize that discussions are not arguments. This is a bit tricky but doable. It can feel very stressful trying to debate an INTJ, as you guys can appear angstful or demanding on the surface which I will read as frustration or anger. I also have to ignore how VERY dismissive Te can sound on the surface, as even when you guys brainstorm, you are still being highly assertive via Te quality assurance tactics.

    These are a few areas of learned growth, but because NeFi is innately like a chameleon, once we understand how to adapt, it isnt very hard to do so.

  9. #1339
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    Quote Originally Posted by stormyapril View Post
    Hi Jim,

    Assuming sarcasm....here let me try again....very early in this thread the Si question was raised...this is an attempt at an answer.
    No, I did actually mean it made sense now.

    Thanks for more detail, I'm sure others might find it useful.

  10. #1340
    Member stormyapril's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    No, I did actually mean it made sense now.

    Thanks for more detail, I'm sure others might find it useful.
    Oh. whoops Enfps get used to mean people after awhile. The directness of the intj is quite delightful.

    But just for fun, i found this quote from Z up and over there>>> somewhere which might explains my first point perhaps a bit more....

    1. Give the INTJ space to use Ni without Ne jumping off topic. This means being quiet at times and following the Ni.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Just a week or two ago, in describing to my girlfriend why I and other Ni doms sometimes have a somewhat "blank" look on our face, I said it was because my thoughts on the matter are still forming.

    The stuff inside my head has still not congealed into any solid substance, it hasn't yet reached that crystallized state, the lightning has not yet struck. But then, all of a sudden, *boom* it's there. And I've got something in mind.

    Any pushing or forcing, either by ourselves or by external sources, tends to cause whatever had been forming to now be perturbed and, in general, creates some perversion (in my case, often tinged with resentment and anger for having its natural process be disturbed) of what had already been forming, that is now less insightful and valuable then what had been forming in the first place.

    I believe this explanation came in the context of asking her to just let me finish figuring out what it is that I had to say, with the necessary time and silence in order to do so.

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