User Tag List

First 1262102110111112113114122 Last

Results 1,111 to 1,120 of 1370

  1. #1111
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    4,226

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    The idea was tested over and over and over, in his head and in real world observations, and then was carefully stored as an Ni functional pattern (functional is in the kind of idea, not Jungian function). That "in his head" testing is sort of the "inner conversation" thing you mention, but more accurately it's running multiple scenarios, in a "quality assurance" kind of way. We keep trying out ideas and discarding the ones that "don't work." Again, it's all functional ... it isn't about true/false, but workable/unworkable. Does the plan get me from point A to point B, for example. The few ideas that get past this test, are tested against the real world.
    This sort of seems like it parallels how I develop ideas-except I externalize them to others over and over again, to refine them-and likely affirm them. I will stumble across an Ne connection, link to several other previously observed connections, then build a functional pattern. Then I bring it here and just keep dropping it in places on various threads hoping for feedback or I will work with my ENTP to identify flaws. I am very often wrong-but I need that external feedback to help me understand how I am wrong. I cant do what you do in your head-the quality assurance.

    Internally, I take the pattern and just keep cross checking it against newly observed patterns. So every idea I have really needs a percentage certainty added. In addition the ideas are never, ever complete. The are skeletons that-sort of like those graphs of mandlebrot sets-can be endlessly refined downwards with new patterns in old patterns. The first pattern can be built into larger patterns.

    One of my most trusted patterns is the "ENXP Symmetry Model". This means that every thing I see an ENTP can be back predicted onto what an ENFP would do and visa-versa, but the action will be reflected in reverse via the two judging functions. Sounds cute until you find yourself looking at your own flaws-flaws you never knew you had till you found an ENTP's flaws. You learn a lot that way.

    So this model gets a 95% certainty score. An ESXP Symmetry model gets a 85% certainty. An INXJ Symmetry model-A 30%-it should be there but I dont have data and I dont understand introverts and I dont understand how Ni...Thus it sits as a puzzle simmering over in the corner. Yet I will still externalize the possibility.

    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    So by the time he's talking about it, the idea or plan or whatever has already existed a long while, except it's stored in Ni, not Si (as would be the case for ISTJ). When he explains it, he doesn't have to figure out how to explain it, because it's already been tossed back and forth between Ni and Te for a while. He's explained it to himself many times already, and edited it so that is clear and understandable, especially if it requires explaining to others.
    I dont like having to externalize ideas, but I suppose that's the i/e diff. I keep going back to the same place-how do you know the "conversation" has covered all possibilities? How do you know there is no neglected dust mite in the corner? Since it doesnt seem you guys can "see" the Fe conversations, how can you be certain they will not interfere with plan-or it sounds like maybe you learn to account for them as you grow, without ever really understanding them?

  2. #1112
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    STP
    Posts
    10,498

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    No you didn't. You're interpreting it in a way that discredits me, because you don't view me as a credible commentator on this. That's fine. That doesn't mean what I said was invalid. What you're not realizing is that the internal logic structure may not be wrong. That the variables have to be manipulated, because they're rotated in the wrong position in the first place! Do you finish a puzzle by maintaining all the pieces in the position they come out of the box? Of course not. You manipulate the pieces! In much the same way, Ne and Se bring an image of what the goal is into their head. Ti figures out how to manipulate the puzzle pieces of reality to bring that image into fruition. This can be very concrete (athletics, hunting), or very abstract (engineering, theory).

    Get it now?
    Why is it that you know you best, yet you also seem to know me best?

    And I do not have images that I manipulate reality to bring into fruition. That sounds chart the course. Here is an example of how I work. When I play chess I do not go more then 2-3 moves ahead. It physically drains me to attempt to go any further because of the way I work. Its actually entertaining in person when I do something without even thinking in chess and the person sits there trying to figure out why I did that. If there are to many pieces on the board I will purposely start allowing you to eat my players so I can eat yours and remove alot of game pieces and bring the game into my realm of expertise.

    If you would like to take this to a PM feel free as almost everything I say will cause you to lose credibility. I cant change the way I piece things together and you have not given me any more information that would allow me to think differently.
    Im out, its been fun

  3. #1113
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    STP
    Posts
    10,498

    Default

    The idea was tested over and over and over, in his head and in real world observations, and then was carefully stored as an Ni functional pattern (functional is in the kind of idea, not Jungian function). That "in his head" testing is sort of the "inner conversation" thing you mention, but more accurately it's running multiple scenarios, in a "quality assurance" kind of way. We keep trying out ideas and discarding the ones that "don't work." Again, it's all functional ... it isn't about true/false, but workable/unworkable. Does the plan get me from point A to point B, for example. The few ideas that get past this test, are tested against the real world.
    I run in so many circles when I do this. I think teamed with Ti it creates a logical loop of true/false vs workable/unworkable. I am really starting to work on recognizing this when it happens and escape. I may have problems because I am not using it to go from point A to point B. Its used as a mechanism to understand how we got from point A to point B and if the situation did not work between 2 people no matter how much I analyze what happened with Ni it will always come out as unworkable since I am simply analyzing what happened. An ENFP helped me greatly to recognize this and how to escape from this defense mechanism. Some people naturally push you into your defense mechanism and if what they did to push you there does not allow your defense mechanism to work and they dont know how to get you out of it everything falls apart.

    Ni teamed with Ti work really good to understand things that actually work though and is where I am trying to focus it right now.
    Im out, its been fun

  4. #1114
    Member Waffle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    2
    Posts
    76

    Default

    Holy moly, I haven't been on in a couple weeks due to school and life craziness, but I never expected this thread to still be alive, and especially not get to 112 pages.

    ...Did someone change my thread title?
    "I do not have delusions of grandeur. I am grand!" - My Mother (An ENTP)

  5. #1115
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    STP
    Posts
    10,498

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Waffle View Post
    Holy moly, I haven't been on in a couple weeks due to school and life craziness, but I never expected this thread to still be alive, and especially not get to 101 pages.

    ...Did someone change my thread title?
    This one got so derailed that Amar graciously created another thread to help discuss it further.

    NFP-NTJ Dynamic
    Im out, its been fun

  6. #1116
    Member Waffle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    2
    Posts
    76

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by poki View Post
    This one got so derailed that Amar graciously created another thread to help discuss it further.

    NFP-NTJ Dynamic
    Oh man, that's pretty crazy. I'm glad I created an interesting topic then?
    "I do not have delusions of grandeur. I am grand!" - My Mother (An ENTP)

  7. #1117
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    MBTI
    3h50
    Socionics
    ILE
    Posts
    4,460

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by poki View Post
    Why is it that you know you best, yet you also seem to know me best?

    And I do not have images that I manipulate reality to bring into fruition. That sounds chart the course. Here is an example of how I work. When I play chess I do not go more then 2-3 moves ahead. It physically drains me to attempt to go any further because of the way I work. Its actually entertaining in person when I do something without even thinking in chess and the person sits there trying to figure out why I did that. If there are to many pieces on the board I will purposely start allowing you to eat my players so I can eat yours and remove alot of game pieces and bring the game into my realm of expertise.

    If you would like to take this to a PM feel free as almost everything I say will cause you to lose credibility. I cant change the way I piece things together and you have not given me any more information that would allow me to think differently.
    Everything I'm saying is true for me. You're making it seem like because it works for me, because my Ne-colored Ti works in a certain way, that it's not truly Ti. That's what's aggravating! You have no basis for making that sort of claim. When I'm making assertions about you back at you, it's because I'm purposely using Ti as a weapon to defend myself. It's competitive.

    Nothing you say will make me lose credibility, because you don't have that level of authority to make such determinations.

  8. #1118
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    STP
    Posts
    10,498

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Everything I'm saying is true for me. You're making it seem like because it works for me, because my Ne-colored Ti works in a certain way, that it's not truly Ti. That's what's aggravating! You have no basis for making that sort of claim. When I'm making assertions about you back at you, it's because I'm purposely using Ti as a weapon to defend myself. It's competitive.

    Nothing you say will make me lose credibility, because you don't have that level of authority to make such determinations.
    Then why did I offend you?
    Im out, its been fun

  9. #1119
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Posts
    4,318

    Default

    A:
    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Puppy View Post
    I keep going back to the same place-how do you know the "conversation" has covered all possibilities? How do you know there is no neglected dust mite in the corner?
    B:
    Since it doesnt seem you guys can "see" the Fe conversations, how can you be certain they will not interfere with plan-or it sounds like maybe you learn to account for them as you grow, without ever really understanding them?

    A: why would you ask?
    B: what?

    We're not idiot person readers, nor automatons. If something is a project of importance--well, if something is not a project of importance, we're not likely to be there doing it, are we? So we're walking around wondering why someone would choose to fuck with a project of substance and value? Seriously, it's a worthwhile operating procedure to assume other persons are persons of ill will?

    There you go, Fe users. We don't make contingency plans against you because we assume you're not the kind of fuckup that destroys for the sake of it.


    Gawd, people. Srsly.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  10. #1120
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    STP
    Posts
    10,498

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    A:

    B:



    A: why would you ask?
    B: what?

    We're not idiot person readers, nor automatons. If something is a project of importance--well, if something is not a project of importance, we're not likely to be there doing it, are we? So we're walking around wondering why someone would choose to fuck with a project of substance and value? Seriously, it's a worthwhile operating procedure to assume other persons are persons of ill will?

    There you go, Fe users. We don't make contingency plans against you because we assume you're not the kind of fuckup that destroys for the sake of it.


    Gawd, people. Srsly.
    Here is an example of ENTP Fe and NFP Fi at work in the same context.

    Fe from ENTP - Brings what I did to the attention of managers so I can gain recognition for my efforts and knowledge since I work in the background 99% of the time.

    Fi from NFP - Brings attention of how helpful I am to managers because she knows about something I am stressing about and knows that it would help me emotionally.

    Fi wants to support you emotionally

    Fe wants to support your position in the hierarchy

    Both have the same effect but different intentions. The context of each situation in regards to the words said, how it came about, when it came about, etc. allows me to determine the difference in intention without asking the person why.
    Im out, its been fun

Similar Threads

  1. [ENFP] ENFP/INTJ Relationship
    By freeeekyyy in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 07-10-2014, 10:36 AM
  2. [ENFP] A question for ENFPs and for people who love them.
    By hazelsees in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 03-04-2013, 08:44 AM
  3. [ENFP] ENFP/INTJ=Perceptive Train wreck o' love?
    By stormyapril in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: 10-21-2010, 05:11 AM
  4. [MBTItm] enfp intj marriage
    By saffron in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 02-04-2008, 03:01 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO