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  1. #91
    Member Waffle's Avatar
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    After much back reading I will continue my search for nice INTJs (It seems there are quite a few in my thread!), and I just had the misfortune of stumbling across the type's ... less courteous members.
    I have to agree that the J function has scared me away from any type. I don't much liked to be judge or do anything wrong. I think it's a personal flaw, and probably common amongst ENFPs to be scared of judgment or displeasing anyone (But that's a thread for another day), and other than that you INTJs have given me a lot to think about and a whole new look on things (All you ENFPs too).

  2. #92
    Member Waffle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SillySapienne View Post
    1.) Any, or at least most romantic relationships require both parties to exercise a buttload of patience, period.

    2.) ENFPs do not want to be everybody's best friend, rather, we enjoy truly connecting with others, strangers and lovers alike, and it is this spontaneous yet continuous connection, free of any pretense or pretext, for which we strive.

    3.) The mere thought of dragging anyone to any event against their will or wishes leaves a bitter taste in my soul.

    4.) We are fine going to parties and these "social scenes" (wait, what the fuck is a social scene, and do we really take part in these things?!?), ALONE, or with a person who actually wants to go.

    5.) In general, I think you will find that most, or at least many ENFPs, are actually quite comfortable being alone, or in the company of +1, (in fact, many of us have expressed our preference of one-on-one contact/communication).

    6.) As popular, and people-loving we might be, we are not these social butterflies that flit and flutter here, there, and everywhere, at least not usually. :P
    So incredibly true.
    I'm a "quieter" ENFP. Large groups of people put me so incredibly on edge. One-on-one makes it easy to get to know everyone and be there when they need you.

  3. #93
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    I admit to being STJ stubborn, and occasionally - when pressed - downright steam roller.
    Forgive moi, but the stubborn part rests in the insistence of Ne, with a concomitant insistence on Si. Which is to say, dreams and wonders do not appear unless they're understandably prompted by immediate events. Meaning, deep in your hearts y'all ENFPs are as earth-bound as any ISTJ.

    INTJs have a similar problem, but it's not that we're stubbornly connected to the past. No, INTJs stubbornly insist nothing is real unless it's happening right here right now.

    Besides, I think relying on function order to this insane degree is more than a bit silly.
    If I may, once again, this is an Ne/Si philosophy... if I don't know details of real people, it can't have real meaning. Ask an ISTJ, get a similar, though far less liberal, assessment of meaning.


    I don't think I've actually came out and said ISTJ and ENFP is a better match. I did say there exists a direct route to involvement of the whole person if one's an ISTJ and the other's an ENFP. I neglected to observe that in as much as for this to be conscious, it needs conscious involvement of the inferior, and thus... doesn't happen often. It comes at the end of a process and even then is fleeting. Golden moments, if you will. Events the couple remembers and it keeps them together through the every day unpleasantness of dealing with the alien they love.

    The alternative is the brighter burn of the two N's together. And you know what they say about burning twice as bright? That they have big feet.


    I think there is a real potential for INTJs to try getting ENFPs to cut back their intuition and act like bimbos. Also, a real potential for ENFPs to try getting INTJs to cut back their intuition and act like providers. (Or more likely, both will sulk, keeping these disappointments to themselves.)


    But what if they know better? So that's why have this discussion has to be had... see the long range planning of it?
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    Forgive moi, but the stubborn part rests in the insistence of Ne, with a concomitant insistence on Si. Which is to say, dreams and wonders do not appear unless they're understandably prompted by immediate events. Meaning, deep in your hearts y'all ENFPs are as earth-bound as any ISTJ.

    INTJs have a similar problem, but it's not that we're stubbornly connected to the past. No, INTJs stubbornly insist nothing is real unless it's happening right here right now.



    If I may, once again, this is an Ne/Si philosophy... if I don't know details of real people, it can't have real meaning. Ask an ISTJ, get a similar, though far less liberal, assessment of meaning.


    I don't think I've actually came out and said ISTJ and ENFP is a better match. I did say there exists a direct route to involvement of the whole person if one's an ISTJ and the other's an ENFP. I neglected to observe that in as much as for this to be conscious, it needs conscious involvement of the inferior, and thus... doesn't happen often. It comes at the end of a process and even then is fleeting. Golden moments, if you will. Events the couple remembers and it keeps them together through the every day unpleasantness of dealing with the alien they love.

    The alternative is the brighter burn of the two N's together. And you know what they say about burning twice as bright? That they have big feet.


    I think there is a real potential for INTJs to try getting ENFPs to cut back their intuition and act like bimbos. Also, a real potential for ENFPs to try getting INTJs to cut back their intuition and act like providers. (Or more likely, both will sulk, keeping these disappointments to themselves.)


    But what if they know better? So that's why have this discussion has to be had... see the long range planning of it?
    No, really, dude. You're being silly. I'll tell you why - people's function strengths aren't like they are in the books. Getting too caught up in function order is just counterproductive, especially when talking about relationships of any kind. What you're calling "long range planning" is just something you're applying to imaginary people who don't really exist. I can't believe your Te is even letting you get away with this.

    Unless you're joking.

  5. #95
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    No, really, dude. You're being silly. I'll tell you why - people's function strengths aren't like they are in the books. Getting too caught up in function order is just counterproductive, especially when talking about relationships of any kind. What you're calling "long range planning" is just something you're applying to imaginary people who don't really exist. I can't believe your Te is even letting you get away with this.

    Unless you're joking.
    have to agree...that is not the least bit true for me...i gots no si...really really don't...it's quite sad.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  6. #96
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by evilrobot View Post
    You probably think INTJ + ESFP is a good match, too.

    If so, you are gravely mistaken, my friend. Thats even worse than ENFP + ISTJ. To ESPs, who dominate our culture, its all about whats right in front of them at the moment; they usually have the attention span of houseflies. From the INTJ point of view, ESFPs are the bimbos of the mbti, and ENFPs are the femme fatales. ENFPs are enchanting and seductive, but deadly. ESFPs, on the other hand, become shallow, boring pains in the asses very quickly.

    From the ESFP point of view, however, the INTJ is the bore, because a person sitting still for more than five seconds and having mental wanderings doesnt compute to ESFPs. Theres no discussion of ideas with ESFPs. I dont mean to stereotype, but frankly, Ive seen few if any exceptions. Id much rather be with someone my own type, if given a choice between that and a complete opposite. Typology books that encourage opposite matches are leading people far astray, if you ask me.
    Well, when you put it that way, it is kinda hard to know what an ESFP and INTJ would talk about.

    I recall reading somewhere that the basic positive claim for opposite pairings is that as a partnership dealing with the outer world, they have all the bases covered. One carries the weight where the other can not.

    That seems like a good idea.

    In principle.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  7. #97
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    No, really, dude. You're being silly. I'll tell you why - people's function strengths aren't like they are in the books. Getting too caught up in function order is just counterproductive, especially when talking about relationships of any kind. What you're calling "long range planning" is just something you're applying to imaginary people who don't really exist. I can't believe your Te is even letting you get away with this.

    Unless you're joking.
    Imaginary people who don't exist is what Ni is all about.

    The assertion that function strengths aren't as they say in books is crazy Si talk... namely, it's not real because I've seen it be not real. And yet... Si has seen only the past. And Ne doesn't go off anything other than what it's seen in the past and is seeing now.

    Does introverted intuition have a parallel limitation? Probably something like Ni is really poor at extracting the meaning of past events for it doesn't count them as real anymore.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    Imaginary people who don't exist is what Ni is all about.

    .
    I'll keep that in mind when you start telling me that people are following you.

    No really.

  9. #99
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    Imaginary people who don't exist is what Ni is all about.

    The assertion that function strengths aren't as they say in books is crazy Si talk... namely, it's not real because I've seen it be not real. And yet... Si has seen only the past. And Ne doesn't go off anything other than what it's seen in the past and is seeing now.

    Does introverted intuition have a parallel limitation? Probably something like Ni is really poor at extracting the meaning of past events for it doesn't count them as real anymore.
    all Ni does is extract the meaning from past events. that's why it misses shit that's right in front of it half the time. it's totally up to its own wheel of fortune colored glasses. if there are scratches or smudges we're fucked.

    and methodology be damned, i think you point out potential pitfalls of the pairings. yet communicating with Ni-Ne dom gets you far, very very far. communicating is the most important aspect of any relationship to me. therefore, my first priority in a relationship is communication quality. understanding comes in all shapes and sizes, it's always a re-creation. and for desires lining up perfectly, it just doesn't exist. the king's harem grows old, tired, bitter, and bored. as does he. and i'm not going to quote mick jagger, in case you're wondering.

    we can save the frankenstein typology for the future, when i get loved with pure Fi, when i get optimized (so optimistic!) by Ne, when i get implemented with Te, when i get pure fantastic focused challenging descriptive Ti truth (perfect mindmate! renewable resources!), and Fe consideration and awareness of my own emotional context, gestures, etc, when i get very zen Se in-the-body presence, awareness, seduction, etc, and Si never forgetting me. when i get someone capable of unstoppable extroverted force but who dreams of me and me alone. this is all lies. time to get back on the meds...

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    time to get back on the meds...

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