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Thread: Idealism

  1. #1
    Branded with Satan murkrow's Avatar
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    Default Idealism

    Describe your idealism, please.

    (yes, I will critique it)
    wails from the crypt.

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    Reptilian Snuggletron's Avatar
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    mine is simply: uncertainty.

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    Senior Member bighairything's Avatar
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    All human souls - I use the word metaphorically as I am not religious - are of equal intrinsic value. Society should reflect that. It doesn't.

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    a scream in a vortex nanook's Avatar
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    first of all: idealism is not about values. especially not in the context of typology, but also not in the context of 'common sense'. (uhm, bad choice of word)

    idealism is a branch of intelligence, that tries to understand the intrinsic nature or character of things (entities or networks, humans or humanity) and derives the way of dealing with those things from this understanding.

    in typology (or in keirsey's typology at least) it is primarily associated with intuition, not with values or judgments, albeit social idealism is secondarily associated with feeling-values. (but feeling can't be the significant aspect of it, since idealism is not associated with SF but NF)

    any idealism that can be described must be a rather dead process of understanding.

    well, actually any branch of intelligence develops in stages, so there might me some period that can naturally appear to be pretty static from a distance.

    a critique of a living process of understanding might be a waste of time.
    it might be outdated, before you press enter.

    the most static idealism is of course unconscious idealism.
    if you didn't know that idealism is about understanding nature (character) and adapting to it, you might be to busy with opposing agendas. (like imposing some short sighted situational 'needs' on the whole world)

    other than that, i have this to say:


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    /X\(:: :: )/X\ BlueSprout's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by murkrow View Post
    Describe your idealism, please.

    (yes, I will critique it)
    So you came to the Idyllic shoot fish in a barrel today, did you?
    Type: INFP Enneagram: 4
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    cataplum!

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    THREADKILLER Prototype's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by murkrow View Post
    Describe your idealism, please.

    (yes, I will critique it)
    Equanimity is the concept of balance and centeredness which endures through all possible changes in circumstances.
    ... They say that knowledge is free, and to truly acquire wisdom always comes with a price... Well then,... That will be $10, please!

  7. #7
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    My idealism, representing things in a perfect form. Regardless of what people do, they are not only considering their own agendas but try to think about others as well so that everybody could have their cake and eat it too. Critique away.

  8. #8
    Branded with Satan murkrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nanook View Post
    first of all: idealism is not about values. especially not in the context of typology, but also not in the context of 'common sense'. (uhm, bad choice of word)

    idealism is a branch of intelligence, that tries to understand the intrinsic nature or character of things (entities or networks, humans or humanity) and derives the way of dealing with those things from this understanding.

    in typology (or in keirsey's typology at least) it is primarily associated with intuition, not with values or judgments, albeit social idealism is secondarily associated with feeling-values. (but feeling can't be the significant aspect of it, since idealism is not associated with SF but NF)

    any idealism that can be described must be a rather dead process of understanding.

    well, actually any branch of intelligence develops in stages, so there might me some period that can naturally appear to be pretty static from a distance.

    a critique of a living process of understanding might be a waste of time.
    it might be outdated, before you press enter.

    the most static idealism is of course unconscious idealism.
    if you didn't know that idealism is about understanding nature (character) and adapting to it, you might be to busy with opposing agendas. (like imposing some short sighted situational 'needs' on the whole world)


    It's obvious from the responses other than yours that my question wasn't absurd. In common conversation the question "describe your idealism" is understood as "Describe the ways in which you attempt to ground the world as experienced in ideas which you can more easily manage and value. Focusing primarily on those ideas which have allowed you to attach extraordinary value."

    Simple reduction to essential/intrinsic characteristics is not idealism as it is generally understood. The use of the term "Ideal" obviously pushes us towards consideration of things which are to be preferred, specifically things which are perfect.

    While it is possible to have an essential concept of a negative thing, the only thing which could be considered ideal in that situation would be the idea of the negative thing, as its composition is perfect in relation to that which it tries to express. The negative thing could not in itself be ideal, it is essentially undesirable.
    wails from the crypt.

  9. #9
    Branded with Satan murkrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bighairything View Post
    All human souls - I use the word metaphorically as I am not religious - are of equal intrinsic value. Society should reflect that. It doesn't.
    Is that value determined or undetermined?

    Could it be nil?
    wails from the crypt.

  10. #10
    a scream in a vortex nanook's Avatar
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    Simple reduction to essential/intrinsic characteristics is not idealism as it is generally understood. The use of the term "Ideal" obviously pushes us towards consideration of things which are to be preferred, specifically things which are perfect.
    yes, this is a common thought: ("nature is not an ideal, but all that is") a thought which is based on bad idealism or ignorance of idealism (as i have defined it). basically an autistic lack of insight into one's own nature and into one's struggle with one's nature, and/or the failure to assume that other natural entities also have both own nature and a struggle with it. it's often those who are in denial about inner conflicts, who are unable to form true idealistic judgments. suddenly "everything is okay just as it is", because it's to painfull to think otherwise.

    good idealism knows right away, that intrinsic and essential aka "natural" characteristics are not identical with all semi-intrinsic or somehow inner characteristics, that are apparently coming out of the inside/nature but are not essential (or not archetypal for example - for lack of a batter word and without implying that everything is pre-programmed in static types)

    a simple example: psychological health (aka integration) is an ideal (of nature), samsara is reality.

    non-idealism parties in samsara, satanism style, idealism tries to find the covered pure potential underneath it all, while separating it from the rest. non-idealism assumes that there is only meaningless struggle and chaois, idealism insists that struggle is the educating difference between ideal and reality.

    therefore no person who has any amount of idealistic intelligence would formulate at any stage of his/her development, that "all values are only relative to a culture" (which we hear a lot from ... i dunno ... but i believe lazy introverted thinking with poor extroverted intuition, during a specific stage)

    of course values are in part relative to culture and in a more significant part relative to essential characteristics (the nature/brain/etc) of a particular person at a particular moment in growth. (at least blame some of our values on DNA, if you are a materialist/reductionist)

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