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  1. #41
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    I was unable to get on line for a few hours. Thanks for continuing without me. Here is some further info:

    The only things she has said about her boyfriend is to say that a) she likes Norwiegen guys and American guys because of how they treat women. He is Norge, I am American b) that him and I have the same opinions about government and religion c) they were gone for ten days, that is why she did not e-mail me.

    I realize that I am developing strong feelings for her, if I have not already done so. Alright, I do have feelings for her. F**K.

    So, are INFPs as intuitive as they say? I am sure it is very clear to her how I feel. This is very suddenly uncomfortable.

  2. #42
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Litvyak View Post
    To "mislead a guy" means to willingly manipulate him with empty promises or other forms of verbal-nonverbal communication for whatever reason, at least in my dictionary.
    I don't see any proof that this would be the case.
    Sometimes, a person leading another person on is not aware or conscious that they're doing it. Sometimes, they are. We don't know this person's level of awareness, but given the known facts of the situation: that's she's already in a relationship and they have deepening emotional intimacy, I find this suspicious. I would like to know the state and health of her current relationship as a prerequisite to how far I'd go with her. Don't you know this is typically how cheating begins?

    And once again, read my posts. I said "appear to lead him on." I never said any of this is definitely happening. People in this thread have made stronger statements that she definitely likes him and I speculate that she could be leading him on.
    Of course they're not "outside the bounds of reality", but I think there is no evidence in rezdawg's stories that would support your theory. It's one possible theory of a hundred others, and I don't find this particular one to be among the more likely or constructive ones.
    Is there evidence to support deepening emotional intimacy? Even Rezdawg1 himself has admitted he has romantic feelings for her. I'm not pulling any of this out of thin air, I read the same things you have.

    All I did was speculate it's not all sunshine and lollipops and he needs to protect is own heart first and foremost. Once again, are you even reading what I'm writing or just honing in on the parts you don't like, that don't support something you'd prefer to be true? You mentioned yourself you like NFPs and I speculate you'd like this relationship to work, you'd like to have something that you find encouraging about this because of your own typological romantic inclinations.
    Fair enough, it's OK to be suspicious in such a situation. But being suspicious != suspecting that she's possibly "one of those kind of women who always likes to have a guy on hand". Perhaps she is, perhaps she's not, you don't have any more evidence for that than for, say, that she likes basketball or astronomy.
    Never claimed I had more evidence. Look at my phrasing, "may be" "could be" I didn't not say "is." You said "she is interested" which is a stronger statement than I ever made. I do say they have increasing emotional intimacy and I stand by that.

    Rezdawg1, I want you to know that I am not trying to be a wet blanket. I've had so many friends start getting emotionally involved with a guy who is not emotionally available to them, either because he's in a relationship or otherwise occupied. Within a couple of months it fizzles out and they're heartbroken. I'm not saying this is something that will definitely happen between you and this person, just know that if you want a friendship with this woman, be aware that there's a boyfriend and know how he fits into the picture. If I were in his shoes, I wouldn't be too happy about my bf getting closer to another woman.

    If this is more than friendship, I suggest just being cool. When/if she decides to leave her current relationship then have at it.

    This leads me to another thought: do people not like speculating about another person's motives when they take a more negative direction? Maybe this is for another thread.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  3. #43
    lab rat extraordinaire CrystalViolet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rezdawg1 View Post
    I was unable to get on line for a few hours. Thanks for continuing without me. Here is some further info:

    The only things she has said about her boyfriend is to say that a) she likes Norwiegen guys and American guys because of how they treat women. He is Norge, I am American b) that him and I have the same opinions about government and religion c) they were gone for ten days, that is why she did not e-mail me.

    I realize that I am developing strong feelings for her, if I have not already done so. Alright, I do have feelings for her. F**K.

    So, are INFPs as intuitive as they say? I am sure it is very clear to her how I feel. This is very suddenly uncomfortable.
    No, it wouldn't necessarily be very clear to her, that you have feelings for her. Some of us INFP's having a wacking great blind spot when it comes how people feel about us.
    That she feels very close to you is very clear, but I'm thinking it leans toward platonic (at least for the moment.) It could change, you guys have a bond, but for now, no. Friendship zone doesn't stay friendship zone with INFP's, I think, but the other man on the scene will have be some how off the cards. She isn't likely to switch until then.
    She isn't intentionally leading any one on, some people you connect with regardless, of whether you are in a relationship or not. Should you stop being friends with other members of the opposite sex just because you seeing some one? Hardly grounds for a healthy relationship.
    My advice ultimately is be her friend. If you confess your feelings, it could stress her and confuse her, especially if her feelings were platonic. If you guys are meant be, you will connect, but seriously, not if there's another man on the scene.
    Currently submerged under an avalanche of books and paper work. I may come back up for air from time to time.
    Real life awaits and she is a demanding mistress.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  4. #44
    Senior Member bighairything's Avatar
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    First up, yes, NFPs can sometimes have a huge blind spot when it comes to people's feelings for them, and I suspect this is true of INFPs even more than it is of ENFP.

    Secondly, it's probably best for your own peace of mind that you just tell her your feelings sooner rather than later. If you don't they'll just grow and grow and probably end up coming out at the most inappropriate moment. I know it's hard for you to do, but you've just got to grasp the nettle. It's cathartic. You'll feel a lot better once done it, and even if she says she's only interested in you as a friend, she will be very flattered, and you'll love that you made her feel good about herself. It's very unlikely that any harm can come from it, so just do it.

    Lastly, I better warn you that my gut feeling is that she is not interested in you romantically, just as a friend. That was what I thought reading the OP, and none of your subsequent posts have changed my mind. Sure, there are signals there, but they seem like pretty weak signals to me. Especially when she's already in a relationship, I would expect something stronger if she really wanted you to make a move. But this is only a gut feeling, and the only way you'll know for sure is if you ask her. Just brace yourself for disappointment, is all I'm saying.

    Okay, one final point. Things change. If I am right and she is not interested in you romantically, you telling her now how you feel will have the effect of allowing you to move the friendship on without being asphixiated by your feelings for her. But nothing is final. Perhaps in a few months time she might split up with her boyfriend. Maybe when that happens she might be ready to look at you in a new light. Perhaps these things won't happen, or perhaps they do but you're no longer interested. Whatever. Just do right and she can only admire that in you.

  5. #45
    Senior Member Cranky's Avatar
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    Rezdawg...I am an INTJ female involved with an INFP male in a wonderful relationship. Previous to this, I was miserable over ANOTHER INFP man who treated me with rather a lot of disdain after emotionally seducing me.

    Unfortunately, your situation rings a lot of bells with me, and not in the goodhappyfluffy way that my current INFP beau creates. You sound like you're nuts over this girl, and I know *EXACTLY* what that feels like. I was crazy over the other man...and made an ass out of myself doing it. The only real consolation I had is that I ended the situation when it got overly emotionally manipulative and empty.

    See...there's crazy for other people, and there's crazy for an INTJ. We go psychotically emo for the first time (or the worst time), and have absolutely no idea how to deal with the situation. So, we remain motionless and paralyzed, just as you described below. Then, there's a monster explosion of feelings and ooey-gooey huggles that FREAKS the other person out--because we simply cannot contain our feelings anymore. I must say that you sound like I did when I was in the bad situation before.

    See, there is something out of the ordinary about the connection between the INTJ and the INFP. It's spiritual, physical, emotional...you connect not just WELL, but on multiple LEVELS. It makes INFP men like VERY BAD CANDY for me. So, when the unhealthy previous INFP turned me into a puddle of misery, I kept wondering what was wrong with ME. Lo and behold, the problem was that he was unhealthy, not that he did not possess many extremely desirable traits. NOW, I'm with a HEALTHY male of the INFP variety, and the difference is like a volcano after an avalanche.

    I need to strongly encourage you to consider the fact that this woman may be completely unintentionally using you for the fact that she can sense your warm feelings for her. It makes her feel good to be around you, so she wants to be around you. Sometimes those freaky Feely people don't THINK THINGS THROUGH, DAMMIT.

    I'm going to refer you to the original thread here in which I discussed the aftermath of getting my heart broken by the unhealthy INFP, so you can see what it looks like.

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...g-addicts.html

    Quote Originally Posted by Rezdawg1 View Post
    This woman has got me doing mental backflips! She is....I don't have a word for what she is....I can't stop thinking about her. I wish I had the balls to tell her how I feel. This is one of the things I hate about being INTJ, frozen in place...
    I know precisely what you mean. It is time to BACK AWAY SLOWLY before someone gets hurt in the goo explosion and ensuing rain of chocolates, flowers, and teddy bears.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rezdawg1 View Post
    I would require that she exit the current one. I am at this point trying to get an idea about what is going on. Am I seeing things, picking up on signals that are not there? Please remember I am an INTJ and have little to no social skills, especially when it comes to flirtation.
    I didn't/don't either. You are hyperanalyzing...just as I did. Obsessively poring over every move she makes, every text message, every missed comma in an email, every emoticon in an IM, every tone in her voice. Cut it out NOW before you start making bad decisions based on faulty premises.

    Quote Originally Posted by bighairything View Post
    Secondly, it's probably best for your own peace of mind that you just tell her your feelings sooner rather than later. If you don't they'll just grow and grow and probably end up coming out at the most inappropriate moment. I know it's hard for you to do, but you've just got to grasp the nettle. It's cathartic. You'll feel a lot better once done it, and even if she says she's only interested in you as a friend, she will be very flattered, and you'll love that you made her feel good about herself. It's very unlikely that any harm can come from it, so just do it.
    Respectfully, bighairything...NO NO NO NO NO. It does NOT make INTJs feel better to express our emotions. It is absolutely true that he will explode, but this isn't about catharsis for us. It doesn't purge us of the feelings...it only makes them stronger. He will NOT feel better or healthier by expressing those emotions to an unhealthy INFP female who likely has no clue what effect she's having on him.

    Rez...this woman is in a relationship, and you must realize she is not emotionally available to you, regardless of how much you HOPE she COULD be. BACK AWAY SLOWLY. You will thank me for this. It is hard to see her imperfections now, but only AFTER you are capable of seeing them can you be involved in a healthy relationship with her. And it goes without saying that she needs to decide on her own that her current relationship needs to end.

    I wish you the best of luck, and feel free to PM me if you want more detailed comparisons of healthy vs. unhealthy INFP romantic behavior as observed by an INTJ.
    Personally, *I* think I'm hysterically funny.

  6. #46
    Senior Member bighairything's Avatar
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    Hi Cranky. I'm really happy you've found yourself a new INFP beau, and he's a good one. I read you fuzzy hug addicts thread but didn't really think it worthwhile commenting as I found it quite late. But I did feel a bit of a crush for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cranky View Post
    Respectfully, bighairything...NO NO NO NO NO.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cranky View Post
    It does NOT make INTJs feel better to express our emotions. It is absolutely true that he will explode, but this isn't about catharsis for us. It doesn't purge us of the feelings...it only makes them stronger. He will NOT feel better or healthier by expressing those emotions to an unhealthy INFP female who likely has no clue what effect she's having on him.
    Okay, fair enough, I'll take his word for it. But ask yourself this, do you really think he's going to listen to your sage advice and back away, or do you think he's going to keep getting drawn in until he just can't keep it inside him any more and it eventually all comes out anyway?

    I don't know, I'm no expert on INTJs, and you're not all the same anyway, but if its the latter then surely its best to get the pain over with sooner rather than later. Life just sometimes throws hurt at you, and there's no getting around that. You got over it, and I'm sure he will too.

    P.S. Rez: If you know what's good for you, don't listen to me, listen to Cranky.

  7. #47
    No Cigar Litvyak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    And once again, read my posts. I said "appear to lead him on."
    Sorry, I'm not fond of picking on words. You have your suspicions and I have mine. Next.

    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    Is there evidence to support deepening emotional intimacy?
    Did I say that I disagree with the "deepening emotional intimacy" part? It is clearly happening, but everything else about this is unknown.

    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    Once again, are you even reading what I'm writing or just honing in on the parts you don't like, that don't support something you'd prefer to be true?
    No, I'm not reading what you're writing, I'm just using your ideas as a springboard for my intellectual and emotional superiority.

    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    You mentioned yourself you like NFPs and I speculate you'd like this relationship to work, you'd like to have something that you find encouraging about this because of your own typological romantic inclinations.
    No, but does it really matter? I think this relationship could work, and I'm not clouded by my own needs or emotions. These points that I've quoted show me that perhaps the feeling could be at least partially mutual.

    It is interesting how you like to stress out my personal emotional involvement without seeing that being overly suspicious about this case could actually be a report card about you, not about the Op or about the matter at hand.

    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    Never claimed I had more evidence. Look at my phrasing, "may be" "could be" I didn't not say "is." You said "she is interested" which is a stronger statement than I ever made.
    I don't care about your phrasing nor do I measure the supposed "strongness" of words. I say what I think, without putting disclaimers on every end of every sentence.

  8. #48
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Litvyak View Post
    stuff
    Why don't you read cranky's post? Maybe you'll take it better from one of your own kind.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  9. #49
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    I have had my heart shattered before, it is not pleasant. That is what I am trying to avoid now. I do not have a good handle on INFPs, I realize we are all different and not an exact fit to the MBTI. Which is why I am here, collecting inside information. I am open to any questions, so please ask, although I am not getting the impression this is a shy group I am appealing to. These are the questions I am inquiring about:

    1. Am I seeing something that is not there or missing the obvious?

    2. Is she displaying "typical" INFP behavior?

    I now realize that I do have some rather strong feelings for her, but as she is in a relationship, I do not have a right to tell her how I feel. That now puts me in the postion of what to do next. Do I back off or continue as is, with closer rein on my feelings?

  10. #50
    Senior Member bighairything's Avatar
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    Rez, from what you've written on this thread, she hasn't given you the come on. If you're looking for reasons to hope she's into you, you might be inclined to read a lot into things like her saying she misses your "long, awesome" conversations. But as an expression of romantic interest that's actually pretty weak stuff. Sorry.

    You should probably listen to Cranky and back off, unless you're willing to take the risk of getting hurt on what's probably a long shot.

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