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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    But maybe I'm just not particularly optimistic about this, but this seems like a very familiar situation. When people are admonishing to "just ask her" yeah I'd ask her alright. I'd ask for an explanation of why she's seeking emotional intimacy outside of her romantic relationship and what about it is so unsatisfactory to her and yet she's not out of it.
    Are we completely sure she's seeking emotional intimacy outside of her current relationship? Is it possible that she respects the OP and enjoys his company/friendship but isn't seeking a romantic relationship with him or emotional fulfillment to replace the lack in her current relationship? After all, the OP admits he's unsure if she's actually sending signals, which is why he wants advice.

    You bring up good points, and I think the INTJ should keep them in mind. However, if someone asked me the questions you posed when I was genuinely seeking friendship and some desperately needed "N" talk, I'd be really offended and probably would back way off out of anger or hesitancy to send the wrong signals again.
    I-71%, N-80%, F-74%, P-96%

  2. #32
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiley45 View Post
    Are we completely sure she's seeking emotional intimacy outside of her current relationship? Is it possible that she respects the OP and enjoys his company/friendship but isn't seeking a romantic relationship with him or emotional fulfillment to replace the lack in her current relationship? After all, the OP admits he's unsure if she's actually sending signals, which is why he wants advice.

    You bring up good points, and I think the INTJ should keep them in mind. However, if someone asked me the questions you posed when I was genuinely seeking friendship and some desperately needed "N" talk, I'd be really offended and probably would back way off out of anger or hesitancy to send the wrong signals again.
    OK flip it around.

    You have a bf or gf. You somehow stumble upon evidence of them being very emotionally intimate with another person. They've told them things you thought were only told to you, they're sharing details about themselves with one another. This isn't about "N" talk. Look at what this guy is saying:

    This woman has got me doing mental backflips! She is....I don't have a word for what she is....I can't stop thinking about her.
    I have told her that I hope some of the things I am telling her about do not scare, offend or cross any lines. Her reply, "I am not scared of you,offended or anything."
    She told me she thinks I am fascinating and inscrutable.
    We both reacted like teenagers. Guilty looks, stop talking, jump up from sitting positions, the whole nine yards.
    our e-mails have gotten longer and more in depth. She tells me she misses our "long, awesome" conversations.
    They're becoming more and more emotionally intimate. Would you be OK with your partner sharing that kind of intimacy with another person?

    Rezdawg1, I don't want to assume anything, but I am assuming your friend is involved with a guy. If things work out between you two, she leaves her current bf and you two get involved, would you be OK with her acting in this way with another guy?

    All I'm saying is, if you're starting to have feelings for her, make sure she's available first. If you're satisfied with being friends with her and she is with you, I'd still kinda let the boyfriend know I'm not trying to come between him and his gf. Just be careful and take care of your own heart first and foremost.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    OK flip it around.

    You have a bf or gf. You somehow stumble upon evidence of them being very emotionally intimate with another person. They've told them things you thought were only told to you, they're sharing details about themselves with one another. This isn't about "N" talk...

    They're becoming more and more emotionally intimate. Would you be OK with your partner sharing that kind of intimacy with another person?
    I understand what you're saying, but I guess it seems to me like the INTJ's description is simply his perspective on the matter. It could be an emotionally charged situation, or it could be a situation where the INTJ feels a lot more strongly about the INFP than the INFP feels for the INTJ.

    Did the INFP really jump up and act embarrassed as if they'd gotten "caught" hugging, or was that the INTJ's perspective because he likes her? Or, did she jump away from him because she had a display of emotion for a friend but didn't want to give the wrong impression to other people and realized it might look weird?

    None of the other stuff she said seems overly romantic or even too emotional to me. My NT friends are fascinating and amazing, and I tell them, because I genuinely mean it. Doesn't mean I'm in love with them. I also would respond in a similar way to a friend who was worried about offending me or crossing lines, and I wouldn't be implying anything emotional or romantic. I've told plenty of people, "I'm not afraid of you," or "I'm not offended easily," and I didn't have sexual attraction or romantic feelings for them. This especially goes for INTJ's, as my INTJ friends and acquaintances have a greater tendency to scare and offend certain people. I find them completely interesting and want them to feel free to speak their minds. This is also part of why I enjoy talking in depth with INTJ's, and would carry on lengthy conversations or correspondence. I only feel like it's dangerous emotionally (for someone who's otherwise committed) if you get to the point where you're talking multiple times a day, thinking about the other person constantly, going to them for personal advice that replaces what your SO should/used to give you, constantly complaining about your current relationship, etc, or maybe some combination of the above. A good friendship can easily cross the line into something emotionally inappropriate, but it doesn't have to, and doesn't always.

    Again, I agree that the OP should be careful with his own feelings about this girl. It's good advice. If she does like you, you don't want to jump into a huge emotional attachment while she's still with somebody else. I guess I just don't know if there's enough evidence to convince me that she's actually interested in more than a friendship. Like I said, I really think it could go either way, and it's hard to tell.
    I-71%, N-80%, F-74%, P-96%

  4. #34
    No Cigar Litvyak's Avatar
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    You're quick to judge a stranger, she could have tons of reasons for her behavior.
    I think "misleading someone" is an exaggeration in this case.

    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    That's not a problem if she leaves him.
    But she's not leaving, she deciding which outfit she likes the best and leading someone on in the process.
    Such decisions do not come easy. If she would leave her partner instantly in 2 minutes, that would be a (bad) sign of superficialness.

  5. #35
    Senior Member Chunes's Avatar
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    Talk about it. If you two have a connection where you don't have to censor any of what you say then it is worth bringing up, and worth 'waiting' for a time when perhaps both of you are available.

    This talk about 'harming' the friendship is bunk. She was never your friend if she gets bent out of shape due to a simple question. It might help if you express your reverence for her current relationship before you ask, though. Still, if you really have the connection you say, she will be receptive to at least defining your relationship more concretely.
    "If you would convince a man that he does wrong, do right. But do not care to convince him. Men will believe what they see. Let them see."
    Thoreau

  6. #36
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiley45 View Post
    I understand what you're saying, but I guess it seems to me like the INTJ's description is simply his perspective on the matter. It could be an emotionally charged situation, or it could be a situation where the INTJ feels a lot more strongly about the INFP than the INFP feels for the INTJ.
    Well he's acting according to his perspective of the situation. And if he has stronger feelings for this person, then even more reason to be smart about this.
    Or, did she jump away from him because she had a display of emotion for a friend but didn't want to give the wrong impression to other people and realized it might look weird?
    Yeah and I think the fact they jumped up is indicative of something. You don't feel or act guilty when you're innocent. Once again, if her boyfriend walked in and saw it would that change the situation any?
    None of the other stuff she said seems overly romantic or even too emotional to me. I always feel like my NT friends are fascinating and amazing, and I tell them, because I genuinely mean it. Doesn't mean I'm in love with them. I also would respond in a similar way to a friend who was worried about offending me or crossing lines, and wouldn't mean anything overly emotional or romantic about it. I've told people constantly, "I'm not afraid of you," or "I'm not offended easily," and I didn't have sexual attraction or romantic feelings for them.
    Re NT friends: are they of the opposite sex and involved with someone else?
    Re responses: You confirm the nature of the relationship, which this person has not done. You've done the right thing and been very clear and upfront about your feelings.

    Again, I agree that the OP should be careful, because if she does like you, you don't want to jump into a huge emotional attachment while she's still with somebody else. But I just don't know if there's enough evidence to convince me that she's actually interested in more than a friendship. Like I said, I really think it could go either way, and it's hard to tell.
    My take home point through all this is just don't get emotionally involved, specifically romantically, with someone who is not available.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  7. #37
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    Yeah, talk about it with her if you like, but just um... try to do it gently and with some grace. It's the lack of those things that could cause a problem or this so-called "harm." At least, it would be for me as an INFP. INTJ's aren't really known for their gentleness and grace.
    I-71%, N-80%, F-74%, P-96%

  8. #38
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Litvyak View Post
    You're awfully quick to judge a stranger, she could have tons of reasons for her behavior.
    I think "misleading someone" is an exaggeration in this case.
    OK, give me some examples of what you would consider misleading someone so I can know where your thoughts are about this.

    I'm not judging anyone, I'm just not jumping on the Romance Bandwagon and being a bit critical about the situation. What I'm saying is not outside of the bounds of reality or even highly unlikely. These would be things I'd be considering if I were Rezdawg1's shoes. I'd wonder about the state of her relationship with her boyfriend and wonder why she's getting more emotionally intimate with me. And they are becoming emotionally intimate, I think that's very clear.

    Such decisions do not come easy. If she would leave her partner instantly in 2 minutes, that would be a (bad) sign of superficialness.
    True they are not. I see what you're saying; drive before you buy. I'd still like to know where the boyfriend fits into this equation and if she's happy in that relationship.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    Re responses: You confirm the nature of the relationship, which this person has not done. You've done the right thing and been very clear and upfront about your feelings.
    (I didn't say, "I don't have sexual or romantic attraction toward you," because that would just be weird, and it wasn't what we were discussing at the time. I'm saying that I've spoken almost the exact same phrases this INFP girl used, and I didn't mean anything remotely romantic or sexually charged.)
    I-71%, N-80%, F-74%, P-96%

  10. #40
    No Cigar Litvyak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    OK, give me some examples of what you would consider misleading someone so I can know where your thoughts are about this.
    To "mislead a guy" means to willingly manipulate him with empty promises or other forms of verbal-nonverbal communication for whatever reason, at least in my dictionary.
    I don't see any proof that this would be the case.

    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    What I'm saying is not outside of the bounds of reality or even highly unlikely.
    Of course they're not "outside the bounds of reality", but I think there is no evidence in rezdawg's stories that would support your theory. It's one possible theory of a hundred others, and I don't find this particular one to be among the more likely or constructive ones.

    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    These would be things I'd be considering if I were Rezdawg1's shoes. I'd wonder about the state of her relationship with her boyfriend and wonder why she's getting more emotionally intimate with me.
    Fair enough, it's OK to be suspicious in such a situation. But being suspicious != suspecting that she's possibly "one of those kind of women who always likes to have a guy on hand". Perhaps she is, perhaps she's not, you don't have any more evidence for that than for, say, that she likes basketball or astronomy.

    Here's another theory: she feels insecure, because she is "emotionally bonding" with someone despite of being in a relationship, and it's really hard for her to decide if the whole "new guy"-thing is worth it. Being an FP, she's trapped in an emotional vortex, and she doesn't know what to do.

    ^ I don't think this is true either, it's just another possibility, just as likely as yours. Or even more, since insecurity is an FP trait while misleading people is not.

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