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[INFP] INTJ needs help with INFP....

Rezdawg1

New member
Joined
Jan 14, 2010
Messages
18
MBTI Type
INTJ
I was unable to get on line for a few hours. Thanks for continuing without me. Here is some further info:

The only things she has said about her boyfriend is to say that a) she likes Norwiegen guys and American guys because of how they treat women. He is Norge, I am American b) that him and I have the same opinions about government and religion c) they were gone for ten days, that is why she did not e-mail me.

I realize that I am developing strong feelings for her, if I have not already done so. Alright, I do have feelings for her. F**K.

So, are INFPs as intuitive as they say? I am sure it is very clear to her how I feel. This is very suddenly uncomfortable.
 

proteanmix

Plumage and Moult
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
5,514
Enneagram
1w2
To "mislead a guy" means to willingly manipulate him with empty promises or other forms of verbal-nonverbal communication for whatever reason, at least in my dictionary.
I don't see any proof that this would be the case.

Sometimes, a person leading another person on is not aware or conscious that they're doing it. Sometimes, they are. We don't know this person's level of awareness, but given the known facts of the situation: that's she's already in a relationship and they have deepening emotional intimacy, I find this suspicious. I would like to know the state and health of her current relationship as a prerequisite to how far I'd go with her. Don't you know this is typically how cheating begins?

And once again, read my posts. I said "appear to lead him on." I never said any of this is definitely happening. People in this thread have made stronger statements that she definitely likes him and I speculate that she could be leading him on.
Of course they're not "outside the bounds of reality", but I think there is no evidence in rezdawg's stories that would support your theory. It's one possible theory of a hundred others, and I don't find this particular one to be among the more likely or constructive ones.

Is there evidence to support deepening emotional intimacy? Even Rezdawg1 himself has admitted he has romantic feelings for her. I'm not pulling any of this out of thin air, I read the same things you have.

All I did was speculate it's not all sunshine and lollipops and he needs to protect is own heart first and foremost. Once again, are you even reading what I'm writing or just honing in on the parts you don't like, that don't support something you'd prefer to be true? You mentioned yourself you like NFPs and I speculate you'd like this relationship to work, you'd like to have something that you find encouraging about this because of your own typological romantic inclinations.
Fair enough, it's OK to be suspicious in such a situation. But being suspicious != suspecting that she's possibly "one of those kind of women who always likes to have a guy on hand". Perhaps she is, perhaps she's not, you don't have any more evidence for that than for, say, that she likes basketball or astronomy.

Never claimed I had more evidence. Look at my phrasing, "may be" "could be" I didn't not say "is." You said "she is interested" which is a stronger statement than I ever made. I do say they have increasing emotional intimacy and I stand by that.

Rezdawg1, I want you to know that I am not trying to be a wet blanket. I've had so many friends start getting emotionally involved with a guy who is not emotionally available to them, either because he's in a relationship or otherwise occupied. Within a couple of months it fizzles out and they're heartbroken. I'm not saying this is something that will definitely happen between you and this person, just know that if you want a friendship with this woman, be aware that there's a boyfriend and know how he fits into the picture. If I were in his shoes, I wouldn't be too happy about my bf getting closer to another woman.

If this is more than friendship, I suggest just being cool. When/if she decides to leave her current relationship then have at it.

This leads me to another thought: do people not like speculating about another person's motives when they take a more negative direction? Maybe this is for another thread.
 

CrystalViolet

lab rat extraordinaire
Joined
Oct 24, 2008
Messages
2,152
MBTI Type
XNFP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I was unable to get on line for a few hours. Thanks for continuing without me. Here is some further info:

The only things she has said about her boyfriend is to say that a) she likes Norwiegen guys and American guys because of how they treat women. He is Norge, I am American b) that him and I have the same opinions about government and religion c) they were gone for ten days, that is why she did not e-mail me.

I realize that I am developing strong feelings for her, if I have not already done so. Alright, I do have feelings for her. F**K.

So, are INFPs as intuitive as they say? I am sure it is very clear to her how I feel. This is very suddenly uncomfortable.
No, it wouldn't necessarily be very clear to her, that you have feelings for her. Some of us INFP's having a wacking great blind spot when it comes how people feel about us.
That she feels very close to you is very clear, but I'm thinking it leans toward platonic (at least for the moment.) It could change, you guys have a bond, but for now, no. Friendship zone doesn't stay friendship zone with INFP's, I think, but the other man on the scene will have be some how off the cards. She isn't likely to switch until then.
She isn't intentionally leading any one on, some people you connect with regardless, of whether you are in a relationship or not. Should you stop being friends with other members of the opposite sex just because you seeing some one? Hardly grounds for a healthy relationship.
My advice ultimately is be her friend. If you confess your feelings, it could stress her and confuse her, especially if her feelings were platonic. If you guys are meant be, you will connect, but seriously, not if there's another man on the scene.
 

bighairything

New member
Joined
Oct 16, 2009
Messages
171
MBTI Type
ENFP
First up, yes, NFPs can sometimes have a huge blind spot when it comes to people's feelings for them, and I suspect this is true of INFPs even more than it is of ENFP.

Secondly, it's probably best for your own peace of mind that you just tell her your feelings sooner rather than later. If you don't they'll just grow and grow and probably end up coming out at the most inappropriate moment. I know it's hard for you to do, but you've just got to grasp the nettle. It's cathartic. You'll feel a lot better once done it, and even if she says she's only interested in you as a friend, she will be very flattered, and you'll love that you made her feel good about herself. It's very unlikely that any harm can come from it, so just do it.

Lastly, I better warn you that my gut feeling is that she is not interested in you romantically, just as a friend. That was what I thought reading the OP, and none of your subsequent posts have changed my mind. Sure, there are signals there, but they seem like pretty weak signals to me. Especially when she's already in a relationship, I would expect something stronger if she really wanted you to make a move. But this is only a gut feeling, and the only way you'll know for sure is if you ask her. Just brace yourself for disappointment, is all I'm saying.

Okay, one final point. Things change. If I am right and she is not interested in you romantically, you telling her now how you feel will have the effect of allowing you to move the friendship on without being asphixiated by your feelings for her. But nothing is final. Perhaps in a few months time she might split up with her boyfriend. Maybe when that happens she might be ready to look at you in a new light. Perhaps these things won't happen, or perhaps they do but you're no longer interested. Whatever. Just do right and she can only admire that in you.
 

Cranky

New member
Joined
Oct 5, 2009
Messages
240
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Rezdawg...I am an INTJ female involved with an INFP male in a wonderful relationship. Previous to this, I was miserable over ANOTHER INFP man who treated me with rather a lot of disdain after emotionally seducing me.

Unfortunately, your situation rings a lot of bells with me, and not in the goodhappyfluffy way that my current INFP beau creates. You sound like you're nuts over this girl, and I know *EXACTLY* what that feels like. I was crazy over the other man...and made an ass out of myself doing it. The only real consolation I had is that I ended the situation when it got overly emotionally manipulative and empty.

See...there's crazy for other people, and there's crazy for an INTJ. We go psychotically emo for the first time (or the worst time), and have absolutely no idea how to deal with the situation. So, we remain motionless and paralyzed, just as you described below. Then, there's a monster explosion of feelings and ooey-gooey huggles that FREAKS the other person out--because we simply cannot contain our feelings anymore. I must say that you sound like I did when I was in the bad situation before.

See, there is something out of the ordinary about the connection between the INTJ and the INFP. It's spiritual, physical, emotional...you connect not just WELL, but on multiple LEVELS. It makes INFP men like VERY BAD CANDY for me. So, when the unhealthy previous INFP turned me into a puddle of misery, I kept wondering what was wrong with ME. Lo and behold, the problem was that he was unhealthy, not that he did not possess many extremely desirable traits. NOW, I'm with a HEALTHY male of the INFP variety, and the difference is like a volcano after an avalanche.

I need to strongly encourage you to consider the fact that this woman may be completely unintentionally using you for the fact that she can sense your warm feelings for her. It makes her feel good to be around you, so she wants to be around you. Sometimes those freaky Feely people don't THINK THINGS THROUGH, DAMMIT.

I'm going to refer you to the original thread here in which I discussed the aftermath of getting my heart broken by the unhealthy INFP, so you can see what it looks like.

http://www.typologycentral.com/foru...pacity-turn-intjs-into-fuzzy-hug-addicts.html

This woman has got me doing mental backflips! She is....I don't have a word for what she is....I can't stop thinking about her. I wish I had the balls to tell her how I feel. This is one of the things I hate about being INTJ, frozen in place...:BangHead::BangHead:

I know precisely what you mean. It is time to BACK AWAY SLOWLY before someone gets hurt in the goo explosion and ensuing rain of chocolates, flowers, and teddy bears.

I would require that she exit the current one. I am at this point trying to get an idea about what is going on. Am I seeing things, picking up on signals that are not there? Please remember I am an INTJ and have little to no social skills, especially when it comes to flirtation.

I didn't/don't either. You are hyperanalyzing...just as I did. Obsessively poring over every move she makes, every text message, every missed comma in an email, every emoticon in an IM, every tone in her voice. Cut it out NOW before you start making bad decisions based on faulty premises.

Secondly, it's probably best for your own peace of mind that you just tell her your feelings sooner rather than later. If you don't they'll just grow and grow and probably end up coming out at the most inappropriate moment. I know it's hard for you to do, but you've just got to grasp the nettle. It's cathartic. You'll feel a lot better once done it, and even if she says she's only interested in you as a friend, she will be very flattered, and you'll love that you made her feel good about herself. It's very unlikely that any harm can come from it, so just do it.

Respectfully, bighairything...NO NO NO NO NO. It does NOT make INTJs feel better to express our emotions. It is absolutely true that he will explode, but this isn't about catharsis for us. It doesn't purge us of the feelings...it only makes them stronger. He will NOT feel better or healthier by expressing those emotions to an unhealthy INFP female who likely has no clue what effect she's having on him.

Rez...this woman is in a relationship, and you must realize she is not emotionally available to you, regardless of how much you HOPE she COULD be. BACK AWAY SLOWLY. You will thank me for this. It is hard to see her imperfections now, but only AFTER you are capable of seeing them can you be involved in a healthy relationship with her. And it goes without saying that she needs to decide on her own that her current relationship needs to end.

I wish you the best of luck, and feel free to PM me if you want more detailed comparisons of healthy vs. unhealthy INFP romantic behavior as observed by an INTJ.
 

bighairything

New member
Joined
Oct 16, 2009
Messages
171
MBTI Type
ENFP
Hi Cranky. I'm really happy you've found yourself a new INFP beau, and he's a good one. I read you fuzzy hug addicts thread but didn't really think it worthwhile commenting as I found it quite late. But I did feel a bit of a crush for you. :wubbie:

Respectfully, bighairything...NO NO NO NO NO.

:laugh:

It does NOT make INTJs feel better to express our emotions. It is absolutely true that he will explode, but this isn't about catharsis for us. It doesn't purge us of the feelings...it only makes them stronger. He will NOT feel better or healthier by expressing those emotions to an unhealthy INFP female who likely has no clue what effect she's having on him.

Okay, fair enough, I'll take his word for it. But ask yourself this, do you really think he's going to listen to your sage advice and back away, or do you think he's going to keep getting drawn in until he just can't keep it inside him any more and it eventually all comes out anyway?

I don't know, I'm no expert on INTJs, and you're not all the same anyway, but if its the latter then surely its best to get the pain over with sooner rather than later. Life just sometimes throws hurt at you, and there's no getting around that. You got over it, and I'm sure he will too.

P.S. Rez: If you know what's good for you, don't listen to me, listen to Cranky.
 

Litvyak

No Cigar
Joined
Oct 5, 2008
Messages
1,822
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
And once again, read my posts. I said "appear to lead him on."

Sorry, I'm not fond of picking on words. You have your suspicions and I have mine. Next.

Is there evidence to support deepening emotional intimacy?

Did I say that I disagree with the "deepening emotional intimacy" part? It is clearly happening, but everything else about this is unknown.

Once again, are you even reading what I'm writing or just honing in on the parts you don't like, that don't support something you'd prefer to be true?

No, I'm not reading what you're writing, I'm just using your ideas as a springboard for my intellectual and emotional superiority. :doh:

You mentioned yourself you like NFPs and I speculate you'd like this relationship to work, you'd like to have something that you find encouraging about this because of your own typological romantic inclinations.

No, but does it really matter? I think this relationship could work, and I'm not clouded by my own needs or emotions. These points that I've quoted show me that perhaps the feeling could be at least partially mutual.

It is interesting how you like to stress out my personal emotional involvement without seeing that being overly suspicious about this case could actually be a report card about you, not about the Op or about the matter at hand.

Never claimed I had more evidence. Look at my phrasing, "may be" "could be" I didn't not say "is." You said "she is interested" which is a stronger statement than I ever made.

I don't care about your phrasing nor do I measure the supposed "strongness" of words. I say what I think, without putting disclaimers on every end of every sentence.
 

Rezdawg1

New member
Joined
Jan 14, 2010
Messages
18
MBTI Type
INTJ
I have had my heart shattered before, it is not pleasant. That is what I am trying to avoid now. I do not have a good handle on INFPs, I realize we are all different and not an exact fit to the MBTI. Which is why I am here, collecting inside information. I am open to any questions, so please ask, although I am not getting the impression this is a shy group I am appealing to. These are the questions I am inquiring about:

1. Am I seeing something that is not there or missing the obvious?

2. Is she displaying "typical" INFP behavior?

I now realize that I do have some rather strong feelings for her, but as she is in a relationship, I do not have a right to tell her how I feel. That now puts me in the postion of what to do next. Do I back off or continue as is, with closer rein on my feelings?
 

bighairything

New member
Joined
Oct 16, 2009
Messages
171
MBTI Type
ENFP
Rez, from what you've written on this thread, she hasn't given you the come on. If you're looking for reasons to hope she's into you, you might be inclined to read a lot into things like her saying she misses your "long, awesome" conversations. But as an expression of romantic interest that's actually pretty weak stuff. Sorry.

You should probably listen to Cranky and back off, unless you're willing to take the risk of getting hurt on what's probably a long shot.
 

Fecal McAngry

New member
Joined
Oct 31, 2009
Messages
976
Rezdawg...I am an INTJ female involved with an INFP male in a wonderful relationship. Previous to this, I was miserable over ANOTHER INFP man who treated me with rather a lot of disdain after emotionally seducing me.

Unfortunately, your situation rings a lot of bells with me, and not in the goodhappyfluffy way that my current INFP beau creates. You sound like you're nuts over this girl, and I know *EXACTLY* what that feels like. I was crazy over the other man...and made an ass out of myself doing it. The only real consolation I had is that I ended the situation when it got overly emotionally manipulative and empty.

See...there's crazy for other people, and there's crazy for an INTJ. We go psychotically emo for the first time (or the worst time), and have absolutely no idea how to deal with the situation. So, we remain motionless and paralyzed, just as you described below. Then, there's a monster explosion of feelings and ooey-gooey huggles that FREAKS the other person out--because we simply cannot contain our feelings anymore. I must say that you sound like I did when I was in the bad situation before.

See, there is something out of the ordinary about the connection between the INTJ and the INFP. It's spiritual, physical, emotional...you connect not just WELL, but on multiple LEVELS. It makes INFP men like VERY BAD CANDY for me. So, when the unhealthy previous INFP turned me into a puddle of misery, I kept wondering what was wrong with ME. Lo and behold, the problem was that he was unhealthy, not that he did not possess many extremely desirable traits. NOW, I'm with a HEALTHY male of the INFP variety, and the difference is like a volcano after an avalanche.

I need to strongly encourage you to consider the fact that this woman may be completely unintentionally using you for the fact that she can sense your warm feelings for her. It makes her feel good to be around you, so she wants to be around you. Sometimes those freaky Feely people don't THINK THINGS THROUGH, DAMMIT.

I'm going to refer you to the original thread here in which I discussed the aftermath of getting my heart broken by the unhealthy INFP, so you can see what it looks like.

http://www.typologycentral.com/foru...pacity-turn-intjs-into-fuzzy-hug-addicts.html



I know precisely what you mean. It is time to BACK AWAY SLOWLY before someone gets hurt in the goo explosion and ensuing rain of chocolates, flowers, and teddy bears.



I didn't/don't either. You are hyperanalyzing...just as I did. Obsessively poring over every move she makes, every text message, every missed comma in an email, every emoticon in an IM, every tone in her voice. Cut it out NOW before you start making bad decisions based on faulty premises.



Respectfully, bighairything...NO NO NO NO NO. It does NOT make INTJs feel better to express our emotions. It is absolutely true that he will explode, but this isn't about catharsis for us. It doesn't purge us of the feelings...it only makes them stronger. He will NOT feel better or healthier by expressing those emotions to an unhealthy INFP female who likely has no clue what effect she's having on him.

Rez...this woman is in a relationship, and you must realize she is not emotionally available to you, regardless of how much you HOPE she COULD be. BACK AWAY SLOWLY. You will thank me for this. It is hard to see her imperfections now, but only AFTER you are capable of seeing them can you be involved in a healthy relationship with her. And it goes without saying that she needs to decide on her own that her current relationship needs to end.

I wish you the best of luck, and feel free to PM me if you want more detailed comparisons of healthy vs. unhealthy INFP romantic behavior as observed by an INTJ.

Cranky, I love you to death, but I think you're making some unwarranted assumptions here based on your past experience. The INFP in question is "involved," but how involved? Dating someone casually for three weeks? Married for 20 years with 5 kids? No info here, though I'd guess more towards option one. And there is no evidence that this INFP is unhealthy or is behaving in an unhealthy or manipulative way...Could be. But no reason to believe so.
 

Litvyak

No Cigar
Joined
Oct 5, 2008
Messages
1,822
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I strongly disagree with the notion of "slowly backing away" just to protect your feelings or comfort without ever trying anything, and I really think you'll regret it if you don't use anything and everything in your inventory to get this girl. What happens if you don't succeed? The worst scenario is that you'll feel like shit for a while and you'll lose a possible friend. The best scenario is that you two come together, one way or another.

In your current situation, you do not have the insight and the objective thinking to decide which one is more likely. We're not in a position to tell you this either, since we also lack the insight and the information.
Now it's your turn to decide: if there is a 85% risk of negative results, would you still risk it for that 15%? And if it's 95%? You can spare yourself from damage, but there's that 5% that it could've worked out if you've tried it.

On second thought, I agree that you should stop thinking on these small signs, they're misleading more often than not. As for the above though, you really have to think this through. The choice is yours, ultimately.
 

Cranky

New member
Joined
Oct 5, 2009
Messages
240
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Cranky, I love you to death, but I think you're making some unwarranted assumptions here based on your past experience. The INFP in question is "involved," but how involved? Dating someone casually for three weeks? Married for 20 years with 5 kids? No info here, though I'd guess more towards option one. And there is no evidence that this INFP is unhealthy or is behaving in an unhealthy or manipulative way...Could be. But no reason to believe so.

I will only argue with you on one point: it is the definition of 'unhealthy' for a woman who has a partner to be seeking emotional gratification from the OP, especially when she seems to be exhibiting the signs (guilty behavior, secrecy) that tell me that she's intentionally acting...perhaps not IMMORALLY, but certainly with a degree of laissez-faire concerning accepted social boundaries for relationships. In addition, she may not understand the depth of Rez's feelings, but I'd argue that most people have the tools to know when someone is or is not attracted to them.
 

Fecal McAngry

New member
Joined
Oct 31, 2009
Messages
976
it is the definition of 'unhealthy' for a woman who has a partner to be seeking emotional gratification from the OP, especially when she seems to be exhibiting the signs (guilty behavior, secrecy) that tell me that she's intentionally acting...perhaps not IMMORALLY, but certainly with a degree of laissez-faire concerning accepted social boundaries for relationships. In addition, she may not understand the depth of Rez's feelings, but I'd argue that most people have the tools to know when someone is or is not attracted to them.

Rezdawg1--is this an accurate characterization of her behavior?

Gotta love that INTJ Cranky feistiness--Pauline Kael & Camille Paglia ain't got nothin' on her...
 

Wiley45

New member
Joined
Mar 3, 2009
Messages
669
MBTI Type
INFP
So, are INFPs as intuitive as they say? I am sure it is very clear to her how I feel. This is very suddenly uncomfortable.

Being intuitive doesn't instantly make somebody a mind reader. :) The two of you might have very different ideas of what signifies romantic interest. Plus, I don't know how it is for other people, but it's a lot easier for me to be aware of and accurately pinpoint other people's thoughts and feelings when they aren't directed at me.

These are the questions I am inquiring about:

1. Am I seeing something that is not there or missing the obvious?

2. Is she displaying "typical" INFP behavior?

We're not actual observers, and we don't have much context. I think it's almost impossible, based on the information you've given, to tell you what's going on in her head.
 

Sizzling Berry

New member
Joined
Apr 5, 2009
Messages
185
MBTI Type
INFP
I think that the fact that she has a boyfriend is important though it does not necessarily destroy your chances. In my opinion it's meaningful that when she went to a trip with him she stopped e-mailing you - it shows her priorities or loyalties. However the nervousness that she showed when people interrupted your conversation means that she saw that exchange as something intimate - maybe the reason was because she wanted to share a dark painful secret with you, but maybe she enjoyed it on an electrical chemical level :D. You probably stand a chance but you need to act subtly. She probably feels something for you but she is still loyal to her boyfriend and may not be ready to admit feelings for you. So you would need to delicately but suggestively prove to her that you two are a better match. I'm not sure though what you are really asking about - if she's attracted to you or what to do with the situation. Because if you feel like doing nothing about it the discussion if she likes you is purely academic.
 

Rezdawg1

New member
Joined
Jan 14, 2010
Messages
18
MBTI Type
INTJ
Well, I don't seem to have the tools to know when someone is attracted to me....maybe if they hit me with a club I mightget it. Which is why I am here!

Her behavior at that one time did seem guilty. I need to clear up one point; she hugged me after her mother and sister left the room, actually an office reception area, we were not locked in an embrace when they walked in. She was sitting in a chair and I was standing there talking to her and when I went to show her something, I knelt down in front of her. We were very engaged in our conversation when they walked in. I saw the look on her face, they came in behind me, it was a "busted" type look, wide eyes and dropped jaw. We both stood up and the "feel" in the room was a bit weird to say the least. After a quick second of akwardness, they left to an adjacent room as her and I seemed to fumble about. That was when she gave me the hug with the fleeting head on shoulder move. I was taking note of her body language and gestures during our conversation: Left hand hair toss over right shoulder. Left hand then ran down right side of neck from ear/jawline area toward middle of neck to trachea. Briefly touched neckless with fingers. Feet not pointed directly at me, as I was too close to allow for that. Did not move away at this piont, moved closer. Leaned toward me as she looked at what I was showing her. Pulled hair off neck with both hands, ponytail style move. Held it there briefly while cocking head to one side. They leaned elbow on desk and propt head on hand, wraist pointing toward me. This is the point her mom and sister walked in.

Another time we were talking, trying to, but there were too mant conversations going on in a small place, so she pointed to go outside. I was closer to the door so I got outside before she did. I sat on the bench, leaving plenty of room for two more people, easily. She sat down right next to me, not touching but still close. She pretty much either sat on her hands or held them together and on her out stretched legs. She was leaning forward and turning toward me to look at me, slightly twisting toward me. Hard to discribe her position.
 

Rezdawg1

New member
Joined
Jan 14, 2010
Messages
18
MBTI Type
INTJ
BF info:

They met in Central America 2 years ago. They see each other there for 4-5 months. He lives in Norway, she lives in America. He has been here once for a couple of weeks and she has been there once for a couple of weeks. He has at least one kid. She does not talk about him, so thats all I know.
 

Rezdawg1

New member
Joined
Jan 14, 2010
Messages
18
MBTI Type
INTJ
They were in an area were computers made better paperweight then anything else..
 

Sizzling Berry

New member
Joined
Apr 5, 2009
Messages
185
MBTI Type
INFP
Eeeeeh - with attraction... how to explain it :doh:? It's a process with many undercurrents, subtleties, tones and variations. U cannot extract it clinically from a person - that's my opinion. Say in those situations she felt an attraction to you - would that answer satisfy you? And what with other situations in her life where there are so many other things apart from that attraction that matter. What I want to say is that those snap shots from your encounters are not deal breakers though they show something - attraction is not a constant you can extract on the basis of evidence or rather it may not make that much sense to do it. It's a process that you create, inspire, encourage and nurture (or throttle, neglect, avoid and in the end kill). The question is are you up to the game? Hey you may lose but ahh… you may win :D.
 
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