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Thread: Atheist INFPs

  1. #11
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    How someone thinks (in the MBTI context) has nothing to do with nor has any correlation to religion.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

  2. #12
    Member inebriato's Avatar
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    A good INFP friend of mine was a christian turned atheist, after the influence of his friends.
    6w7.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Eckhart's Avatar
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    I am agnostic. I feel somehow drawn to "spirituality" and mother + good part of her family do believe strongly in God (catholic). Was even at catholic school, though it was actually very open-minded (there were enough atheists in it too which just pleased their parents). So I have grown up with catholics and believed in it for some time, but never without doubts.

    However, I cannot say anymore that I still believe much in that one religious image. I don't rule out the possibility, but I see also the possibility of there being nothing like that or that another view is fitting better.

    However, I somehow believe there is something like a soul.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Parrish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by disregard View Post
    I'm spiritual but I'm atheist.
    I see it in a similar way. I`m not a fan of organized religion, never was, it kind off makes me think of brainwashing, or that some people instead of searching for meaning and hope inside themselves prefer to look for it in externally influenced mases. In that sense I`d say I`m an atheist, since I don`t believe in an almighty "God".
    However I do believe we have souls. I guess spirituality for me is figuring out some of the big questions, trying to better myself and the world and believing that life has a deeper purpose I just don`t quite know yet. When I was a kid and most of my peers were going to church (whether or not they were/are religious) I liked the idea of reincarnation more. Then again, I also wonder sometimes if what we call life is really real or something completelly different. But nevermind, I`m getting off track, I already wrote far more than necessary.

    cheers
    .:"Claude os, aperi oculos.":.

    "You can't give up hope just because it's hopeless, you have to hope even harder and cover your ears and go 'lalalalalalala'"- Fry (Futurama)

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueSprout View Post


    I think the idea of a comforting, personal deity or of human growth toward a divine goal can only come from an already held belief or a will to consistently 'see' such things. I have neither. Reality as I experience it doesn't hold their existence to be likely at all. Though I could subjectively frame my experiences to find meaning in them, I would be constantly aware of the bias I was applying and any emotional benefit I might otherwise experience would be negated. Even if I did have some sort of revelatory experience, I'm fairly certain I would dismiss it as a product of my psychological state. I would be suspicious of any newfound sense of certainty that would follow and would likely chalk it up to wishful thinking and self-delusion.

    In the end, it's not just that I don't want to validate a comforting falsehood - I don't think I can.
    I avoid participating in any kind of online discourse where atheism/theism comes up because it always ends up becoming an exercise in question begging on both sides of the fence.

    I have seen other atheists use this argument that people who are spiritual are looking for some kind of false sense of comfort, when by already concluding that it is "false", they are in fact begging the question.

    Moreover, perhaps some people who believe in the spiritual do so simply for a sense of comfort against the perennial "big questions" involving death. Some people want certainty and want to just close the book on the issue. But these people are NOT spiritual. They are religious, but not necessarily spiritual.

    Spirituality involves having an itch that only delving into the realm of the spiritual would scratch. To pick a low hanging fruit, Sir Isaac Newton was an agitated man who was constantly searching, searching, searching for the face of God in mathematics and in the works of nature. His spirituality was far from a source of comfort for he searched feverishly until his death. He had to have experienced something that made him think that scratching that itch was worthy of consuming his time night and day. He never closed the book on the matter. He never said, "I'm an Anglican now ! End of discussion." The fact that he kept searching shows that he was spiritual but not religious.

    Certainty and absolutes is rarely involved when it comes to spirituality. It is usually manifested as a restless, constant searching.

    Those who become certain have either reached enlightenment or have prematurely stopped searching.

    Those who have prematurely stopped searching are those religious people who try to forcefully convert everyone and preach fire and brimstone down from their pulpits. These are on one extreme end of the spectrum (and admittedly are easy targets).


    So even if you're an agnostic or an atheist astrophysicist who is searching the galaxies for something, you are a spiritual person in the sense that you haven't closed the book as yet. Once again, those who close the book, and think that they have found the truth once and for all, and stopped growing are actually NOT spiritual people. (The sole exception, of course, is those few who have reached enlightenment).

    Being spiritual involves that restless searching. It is a process where growth is involved.

    To reiterate: there is a distinction between being religious and spiritual. Many religious people have closed the book once and for all and stopped growing and searching. In this sense, extreme religious people are no different from their extreme atheist counterparts. Funny that they see themselves as opposites though.

    To Bluesprout: By "being suspicious of any newfound sense of certainty," you are actually more spiritual than you think in that specific sense.
    The purple sun won't heal my purple bruises :ouch:

  6. #16
    Reptilian Snuggletron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy View Post
    If it's any conciliation, I haven't got the faintest clue what being spiritual actually involves either. I'm think its another word for being an air head.
    personally most of the people I've met who claim to be spiritual are airheads. Just saying. It's one of those abstract defining words that really doesn't explain anything. Usually it's assumed it just refers to someone's personal ideas/beliefs that aren't marked by one of the major religions.

    to answer the OP question...I guess I'd be considered agnostic, but even saying I fall under that category makes me feel like I'm part of a group I don't want to be in. Too many possibilities to associate with a singular faith, which I think is pointless in regards to being reasonable.

  7. #17
    /X\(:: :: )/X\ BlueSprout's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by purplesunset View Post
    I have seen other atheists use this argument that people who are spiritual are looking for some kind of false sense of comfort, when by already concluding that it is "false", they are in fact begging the question.

    Moreover, perhaps some people who believe in the spiritual do so simply for a sense of comfort against the perennial "big questions" involving death. Some people want certainty and want to just close the book on the issue. But these people are NOT spiritual. They are religious, but not necessarily spiritual.

    Spirituality involves having an itch that only delving into the realm of the spiritual would scratch. To pick a low hanging fruit, Sir Isaac Newton was an agitated man who was constantly searching, searching, searching for the face of God in mathematics and in the works of nature. His spirituality was far from a source of comfort for he searched feverishly until his death. He had to have experienced something that made him think that scratching that itch was worthy of consuming his time night and day. He never closed the book on the matter. He never said, "I'm an Anglican now ! End of discussion." The fact that he kept searching shows that he was spiritual but not religious.

    Certainty and absolutes is rarely involved when it comes to spirituality. It is usually manifested as a restless, constant searching.

    Those who become certain have either reached enlightenment or have prematurely stopped searching.

    Those who have prematurely stopped searching are those religious people who try to forcefully convert everyone and preach fire and brimstone down from their pulpits. These are on one extreme end of the spectrum (and admittedly are easy targets).


    So even if you're an agnostic or an atheist astrophysicist who is searching the galaxies for something, you are a spiritual person in the sense that you haven't closed the book as yet. Once again, those who close the book, and think that they have found the truth once and for all, and stopped growing are actually NOT spiritual people. (The sole exception, of course, is those few who have reached enlightenment).

    Being spiritual involves that restless searching. It is a process where growth is involved.

    To reiterate: there is a distinction between being religious and spiritual. Many religious people have closed the book once and for all and stopped growing and searching. In this sense, extreme religious people are no different from their extreme atheist counterparts. Funny that they see themselves as opposites though.

    To Bluesprout: By "being suspicious of any newfound sense of certainty," you are actually more spiritual than you think in that specific sense.
    I meant no disrespect to people of faith or those who identify as spiritual. I was sharing my point of view: my "reality as I experience it". My POV, which cannot really be helped here (I am my own worst enemy ), causes me to disregard contemplation of what is not material as most likely pointless. This is not because I devalue the experiences or wisdom of others, I just doubt my own ability to discern truth instead of lying to myself in order to believe what is desirable to me.

    To clarify, for me, having a sense of either certainty or hope (that there is something more, whatever it might be) would be comforting. It would bring with it a whole host of other issues to grapple with, but it would infuse my life with a sense of meaning and purpose. You don't need to have certainty or be closed minded to have an enriching and validating experience in spirituality/religiosity and I appreciate that deeply.
    Type: INFP Enneagram: 4
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  8. #18
    Junior Member Sauropsidian's Avatar
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    I'm an atheist.

    I believe that us, and everything else is meaningless at a cosmic scale, that there is no higher power that exists. To me, it's ourselves that give meanings to each other and reasons for existing, which do not need a god to explain them.
    4w5 sp/so/sx

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueSprout View Post

    To clarify, for me, having a sense of either certainty or hope (that there is something more, whatever it might be) would be comforting.
    You contradicted yourself here. In your first post, you said you would be suspicious of any newfound certainty after an experience , but now you're saying it would be comforting? Of course, I may have misinterpreted you in either one of your two posts.

    ------------------------

    There is a reason why I compared spirituality to an itch in my previous post. Some people have it in varying degrees of intensity.

    While some simply don't have it at all.

    Those who do have the itch go about constantly, nay feverishly, searching and growing. And anyone can have that itch, including the most intelligent, rational, logical people.

    To those who don't have that itch (and you might be one of them), it would not do to lie to themselves and feign interest in spiritual matters.

    Perhaps one day the itch might come suddenly (like it did to Pascal), perhaps not. Either way, you do what is best for your situation, and if you just don't have the itch, then the most reasonable thing is to be an atheist and don't attempt to scratch. Anything less will be futile and untrue to yourself. But at the same time please don't look down on those who seek relief for their itch. (speaking to atheists in general, not to you Bluesprout)
    The purple sun won't heal my purple bruises :ouch:

  10. #20
    /X\(:: :: )/X\ BlueSprout's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by purplesunset View Post
    You contradicted yourself here. In your first post, you said you would be suspicious of any newfound certainty after an experience , but now you're saying it would be comforting? Of course, I may have misinterpreted you in either one of your two posts.
    I would be suspicious of "newfound certainty" - not a long-term certainty with enduring conviction to back it up. I have experienced this - where my first instinct gives me a sense of relief, but, on reflection, I realize that I have allowed something that seems appealing to cloud my judgment momentarily. This is an issue because after death and tragedy there is such an overwhelming desire to believe things and such a vulnerability to suggestion (for me, at least). I have to guard myself against entertaining ideas that, while temporarily soothing, would not be sustainable beliefs for me. Any certainty I've ever had has been very tenuous, fleeting and circumstantial. When the immediate moment passes, it's gone and I cannot salvage it.

    So, I could never have total certainty or faith as the person I am today at least - I think this would be an enviable ability. To reiterate, though, I don't mean "unthinking" or rigidly dogmatic certainty. Again, I'm sorry if my posts haven't conveyed the respect that I have for people of faith and/or spirituality.

    There is a reason why I compared spirituality to an itch in my previous post. Some people have it in varying degrees of intensity.

    While some simply don't have it at all.

    Those who do have the itch go about constantly, nay feverishly, searching and growing. And anyone can have that itch, including the most intelligent, rational, logical people.

    To those who don't have that itch (and you might be one of them), it would not do to lie to themselves and feign interest in spiritual matters.

    Perhaps one day the itch might come suddenly (like it did to Pascal), perhaps not. Either way, you do what is best for your situation, and if you just don't have the itch, then the most reasonable thing is to be an atheist and don't attempt to scratch. Anything less will be futile and untrue to yourself. But at the same time please don't look down on those who seek relief for their itch. (speaking to atheists in general, not to you Bluesprout)
    I am wary of the itch. I think it's in my nature to want to believe. And I think I'm predisposed to liking ideas that seem fair, beautiful, etc. - ones that align with my values, in other words. I have made myself sick with grief because of my atheism. I'm not an atheist because I ignore the issues that faith might address: I feel the implications of my lack of belief very poignantly.

    There is a very fundamental problem with Pascal's wager though - it merely addressed whether a personal deity/universal values system exists, not which. You might, on his premise, choose to follow a path that might lead you to damnation anyway.
    Type: INFP Enneagram: 4
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