[Fe] Fe as Vibration in the Ether

[Kalach]

People and the state now of the network of relationships between them are the music, FJs are the musicians. --Carl Sagan.

?!?

Details?

 

[CuriousFeeling]

In other words, think of a relationship as a chemical reaction, you have Person A, and Person B. Suppose the reaction between Person A and Person B needs a little bit more activation energy. The FJ serves as the catalyst for Person A and Person B and is able to get the relationship to function.

It would look something like this:


Person A + Person B ----------> Person A==Person B
(FJ should be over the Yield Arrow)

I hope this makes sense.

 

[Skyward]

People and the state now of the network of relationships between them are the music, FJs are the musicians. --Carl Sagan.

?!?

Details?

Music is a flow, a series of notes that invoke certain things. Music is essentially strategy with more feel than logic. You have a goal in mind, to make a friend, or emotionally bruise an enemy, and use what strategies you know (from your perceiving function) to reach it. Music is the same, you want someone to feel a certain thing and you use what strategies you know to reach that end.

Basically Te, but with an F instead of T. Fe users are just much more in tune with feelings of people and their reactions rather than the Te's use of hard data.

 

[Kalach]

The metaphor of music also invokes the idea of harmony, and being the musician suggests something ongoing, a creative act, a reaching for.

The idea of playing the music, however, doesn't quite fit. Sounds manipulative. The counter balance is the idea that the people and the networks between them are the music. Not made to be the music. They already are it.

With those ideas there's a lot of movement and interaction and shape suggested.


Whoo! Metaphors. Really?

 

[Andy]

As far as I can tell, Fe is more concerned with peoples outer behaviours than what is going on inside there heads. Strong Fe types can be very good at getting prople to do as they want, even if they are are unaware or unconcerned by how much other people resent them.

For exmple this sight here INFJ - Introverted iNtuitive Feeling Judging lists male INFJs as being one of the most oblivious to there partners feelings. probablytoo busy trying to put there vision together to see that not everyone esle is happy with it

 

[Eric B]

Sagan was actually talking about type? Where was that quote taken from?

 

[Kalach]

Ah... well, no. Carl didn't say that. He could have. Lets just say that he has said it now. And I wondered if the metaphor were descriptive.


The trying thing about extraverted feeling is that, being partnered with introverted thinking, there isn't much said directly about what extraverted feeling is. You're all thinking away to yourselves, following truth trails, and letting slip a piece here and a piece there, and dammit, if the actual process of letting information slip isn't governed probably by Fe itself! It's a conundrum: one either joins the party or one tries to say what the party is and the party dissolves.

 

[Poki]

In other words, think of a relationship as a chemical reaction, you have Person A, and Person B. Suppose the reaction between Person A and Person B needs a little bit more activation energy. The FJ serves as the catalyst for Person A and Person B and is able to get the relationship to function.

It would look something like this:


Person A + Person B ----------> Person A==Person B
(FJ should be over the Yield Arrow)

I hope this makes sense.

It does. That sounds about right to me. Less about logic and more about function in regards to relationship.

Ahhhh....but what happens when ENFJ is person A as well as above the arrow?

 

[Llewellyn]

At a time some while ago I did actually see Fe as vibrations in the air coming from persons that I walked by and not consciously (i.e. consciously not) looked at, as if it was an automatic recognition sense ('by means of the other').

At one other time in the store I felt like I could discern one encompassing field of sympathy coils permeating the space and everyone.

Both were single occasions...

 

[Tiltyred]

As far as I can tell, Fe is more concerned with peoples outer behaviours than what is going on inside there heads. Strong Fe types can be very good at getting prople to do as they want, even if they are are unaware or unconcerned by how much other people resent them.

For exmple this sight here INFJ - Introverted iNtuitive Feeling Judging lists male INFJs as being one of the most oblivious to there partners feelings. probablytoo busy trying to put there vision together to see that not everyone esle is happy with it

Why do other people resent them? (she asked, bravely)

 

[Goodewitch]

Think of Ni as already in existence sheet music, Fe is the conductor, trying to conduct all the 'music' coming from people (in other words, their emotions ) and trying to make sure that the music is brought together in an ongoing harmonic concerto, via Ti, which sees the purpose and builds the music towards the purpose.
Purpose is emotional harmony.
Fe conducts the orchestra, (other people) by a bit of validation here, and bit of empathy there, maybe a bit of support somewhere else.. all overseen by Ni, which is the orignal sheet music, the original 'plan'.


Tilty Red, maybe some people resent Fe because they wanna play their own freestyle music within the orchestra, and be dischordant,.. and Fe is trying to get everyone to harmonise. (Think of Lisa Simpson being thrown out of the orchestra in the opening credits of the Simpsons for playing her sax freestyle.)
G. x

 

[Andy]

Why do other people resent them? (she asked, bravely)

Because strong Fe types have a talent for getting people to agree to things they don't really want to! The worst thing is, half the time the Fe user doesn't even realise when they are doing it. They tend to trample all over other proples feelings, even if they are doing it for "The greatre Good".

Think of the women who is always trying to pester people into helping out with their charity jumble sale when nobody is really interested. Or those blasted people who walk up to you in the middle of the street and start pestering you about god.

 

[Kalach]

I'd go with the idea the resentment shows up when there are substantially differing priorities at work. Like when an TJ rides roughshod over precarious relationship opportunities and thinks he can still make a project work.

That would be the dog whistle.

Well, let's not call it the dog whistle. Let's call it the Te Trumpet.

So there's some Te Trumpter bleating away some--to him--pleasing and sonorous marching tune, but it's not audible to the Fe musician, totally different set of priorities to the network of people and relationships. The Fe musician can't hear the tune, but sure as heck can see the gyrating, honking fellow tottering about the place crashing into the other players.

What then?




(Gawlee, I really didn't want this to be another Us & Them thread... Hmmm, "Us & Them"... it's like Dad & Dave, or Me & You!!! It's Us & Them, We're Together Again!)

 

[proteanmix]

I have nothing to say as far as the content of this thread is concerned, but it is interesting to me to notice how most FJs aren't biting. May be nothing or may be something.

 

[PeaceBaby]

^ I don't think anyone's biting because there's nothing to sink one's teeth into yet.

Contrast the post titles "Pretentious Fi" with "Fe as Vibrations in the Ether" ... not as provocative or eyebrow-raising. It's like stroking a cat's fur in two different directions.

Let's call it the Te Trumpet.

There's a reason why many TJ's are managers - with Te users, the rules of the "music" are applied evenly over all the players and the same effort is expected of each to play the piece.

Fe users (in the same scenario to a Te user) would appear to pick and choose who gets to play and when, and how loud and for how long ...

Both have pros and cons from time to time.

 

[proteanmix]

^ I don't think anyone's biting because there's nothing to sink one's teeth into yet.

Contrast the post titles "Pretentious Fi" with "Fe as Vibrations in the Ether" ... not as provocative or eyebrow-raising. It's like stroking a cat's fur in two different directions.

IDK, it seems to be enough here to start people chomping, if we're talking about chum in the water. "Pretentious Fi" is not the norm, although it is highly visible and in recent memory.

 

[Tiltyred]

Well, I can't hear if I'm talking, so ...

 

[PeaceBaby]

IDK, it seems to be enough here to start people chomping, if we're talking about chum in the water. "Pretentious Fi" is not the norm, although it is highly visible and in recent memory.

But as a post title "Vibrations in the Ether" sounds cool, no? So it's not going to rile up Fe users. Fi users may get hot & bothered from a perceived personal attack, but this thread has no fodder there either, being focussed on Fe.

So this thread shall slowly ebb away as a vapour through the corridors of time ...

Actually the annoying part is that Carl Sagan really didn't say that, so the whole framework of the thread starts off with a lie; to what ends and for what purpose, I am unsure. Although it will get indexed by Google and in a few years, some fool is going to quote it as fact, not fiction.

 

[proteanmix]

But as a post title "Vibrations in the Ether" sounds cool, no? So it's not going to rile up Fe users. And Fi users may get hot & bothered from a perceived personal attack, and this thread has no fodder there either, being focussed on Fe.

So this thread shall slowly ebb away as a vapour through the corridors of time ...

Actually the annoying part is that Carl Sagan really didn't say that, so the whole framework of the thread starts off with a lie; for what purpose, I am unsure.

I think "Pretentious Fi" was an atypically negative thread about Fi and this is an atypically neutral thread about Fe.

Personally, I decided this past September that I'm out of Fe discussions. My final words on the matter are here.

 

[PeaceBaby]

I feel like we're just slightly missing each other's point proteammix. Share with me what you mean about FJ's "not biting". I interpreted your comment to mean FJ's were staying cool and out of this thread, exercising good restraint and not getting involved in an Fe discussion that could become "charged".

My response was to point out that I didn't see much to upset anyone and maybe that's why it's been quiet; the thread title is very cool sounding, and indeed, the opening post is vague enough to send people clicking on to the next thread in no time flat (no offense intended there Kalach!)

I am very interested to understand exactly where your thoughts are on this proteanmix. I admire you a great deal and think you have many illuminative contributions.

Help me if I have missed what you are trying to tell me. Do you feel that Fe gets a pretty unjust treatment on the forums?