This MY experience with INFJ's. You've just discounted my truth, because it isn't congruent with your perception, reinforcing my point. Again INFJ's either don't listen, or dismiss input because it doesn't align with thier reality. No, it's type specific, but in my experience, INFJ's do it far more consistantly then any other type. Occasionally, I wonder if the INFJ's that are currently in my circle have any grips on reality at all.
Communication starts with listening, if you have already discounted what I have say because it doesn't fit your vision, then that two way, give and take aspect of communication isn't happening, you've let your side down. I can't comminicate if you've stuck a wall up and said that can't be.
communication starts with articulation. you can displace blame on others for not hearing you, but i've read what you said multiple times. i find what you've said to be incorrect, but more importantly, i find it to be incorrect and presumptuous. but that is exactly what is at stake. in these flare-ups, you presume that you are right and can make claim to what reality is while we infjs must bend reality to fit our perceptions. while we presume to see more than you see, and find your truth to be but a fraction of reality and ultimately a distortion.
my point was explaining how these distortions happen. i agreed that ixxj must integrate communication/interaction into their vision, and at times that can promote miscommunication, mishearing, and stubbornness. but i subtly or not so-subtly stated that ixxp have their own problems in this regard, bc your words suggest that you do not seem to be aware of this. you act frustrated that i do not give you credit for having an opinion, or taking your interpretation as an absolute truth that can not be criticized or questioned. this is an ongoing tension and what these Fi threads are about. i do not find that you imagined what i said at all, rather you just treated it as an inflammatory remark that was attacking your Fi and thusly your self-identification.
i think that with Fi and e4 other perspectives are seen as an attempt to change its internal truth which is its strongest identification. especially in e4w5. it can become so defensive and protect itself from imagining other perspectives and fully immersing itself in perceptual experience. that kind of block is a more literal wall than Ni, which is more of a filter with variable sorting techniques.
To clarify, I don't think being directive is the same as being manipulative. Covertly directive might well become manipulation, but that's different.
We should also make a difference between a person working on their own and a person working with others, maybe particularly if the person is INJ because working on your own involves a lot of interior intuiting which is visible to you, and that's fine and deep and good, but which isn't visible when you're working with other people. When you're working with other people, unless they're particularly insightful all they get to see is the auxiliary e function. So, for me, other people get to see me being dogmatically controlling, asserting that this, this and this are true and lets move on people because it's already decided. Privately, what's actually happening is I've taken a starting point, probably which arose from, and in conjunction with, a lot of background speculation, and a lot more focused speculation is now going to take place because a step in the direction I chose has been taken.
But for me, all of this stuff is about plans and strategies and best uses of time and resources for the accomplishment of some constructive goal not immediately related to people. People may take part or benefit, but technically at least, they're not the immediate object of contemplation nor is any change in their personal state the direct goal of the plan. They are, to be overly simplistic, contributors to what comes to pass rather than outcomes of what comes to pass.
And for INFJ...?
a few subtle or not-so-subtle encouragements and nudges in a direction are not this "people are my objects to control" agenda. Fe is not Te, it gets pleasure in a different way. Te wants a problem to solve, Fe wants to smooth, even out, facelift, uncramp/massage, etc. it enjoys relating, period, bantering, connecting, playing games, etc, and being good at it is its own reward. it feels like a social mechanic, but in the context of infj, we pick our battles just like intjs do. intjs don't try to control everything, they don't have that kind of energy. especially e4s and e5s. your projects are chosen by your enneagram motivations/defenses + what Fi says is ultimately important (this is after you get tired of just doing whatever is presented to you as the problem and begin to care more about your own specific pet projects). this is like us, but with Ti. we recognize some Ti truths as fundamental, some problems we need to address and improve, they are somehow relevant to us/our-selves or others we care about (e4, e5, and e9), so we start investing our energies in those domains. and when we encounter those problems, we feel practiced and assured that we know what we are doing. sometimes we're wrong, or we can be resistant to feedback that would be useful to us, or we are uncentered and acting out our own stresses and frustrations. yup. but we don't have the energy to build an empire out of people. if that ever happens, there's more happening behind the scenes or not so behind the scenes that involves eps and ejs.
i do so many things mentioned in this thread, especially by the avatar in the leather jacket and the little girl approaching the haunted house avatar
