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  1. #11
    Senior Member wedekit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yakimadude View Post
    emotional blackmail


    I'm not sure if I know what you mean by that...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    I'm not saying you guys are wrong about what the feeling will be. I'm saying the movement toward it is purposive.


    Or asking if it is, anyway.
    emotional blackmail

  3. #13
    lab rat extraordinaire CrystalViolet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goodewitch View Post
    I dunno, maybe some INFJ's are whiney, ok, I can concede that maybe, some will be voiciferous in trying to convince you to their way, but overall, (of course I dont speak for every INFJ, only myself,..) I may be going on and on and not really being heard, but it does seem that i have to be a bit repetitive and whingey to actually get someone to lisaten sometimes...yes, i can nag and rant, and even try to wear someone down to coming round to my point of view, but its very much an out in the open, obvious tactic,... nothing manipulative about it.
    This, and the fact once you have decided some thing will happen, you won't stop. The reality of the situation does not enter the mind of the INFJ, you bend reality, so it matches your vision. Oh and the fact you don't always listen to the other person's point of view because you are right, god damn it!(even when you are wrong:steam.
    It's not manipulation exactly, but, it can drive this INFP nuts. I do appreciate you guys, but back off!!
    Sorry, just venting about a particular INFJ in my life. I like you really
    Currently submerged under an avalanche of books and paper work. I may come back up for air from time to time.
    Real life awaits and she is a demanding mistress.

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  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by wedekit View Post
    I can predict how particular individuals will react to various ways I could phrase a statement/request. I simply choose the way that will give the best results... well, the ones that are best for me, usually.
    Ha. Yes. This is my way of "manipulating" as well. But obviously it's not intended to hurt anyone and it's not like I go around all the time doing this. It's about showing other possibilities that in my opinion are "better". Subtle persuasion, as I call it.

  5. #15
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yakimadude View Post
    emotional blackmail
    I have no idea if that's what I mean or not. My tendency to claim distance from feeling means feeling can sound weird and mechanical when I talk of its supposed existence. What I was trying to get at is some expression of what it means for feeling to be directive. I know--more or less--what it is for an INTJ to be directive and how we/they/it does it. I wondered if INFJs had a similar thing. (Surely you guys must, but I don't know how it works.)
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  6. #16
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    Semi-Related Question: how true is the following for INFJ?

    "Hi there. Today our feeling will be *this*. See it, know it, love it, be it. Oh, you don't want to? Gee, that's too bad, I thought you were a good guy. No, I'm not causing you distress, you're doing it to yourself and it hurts me too, but we can talk about it if you like. The terms under which we talk will include that the feeling is *this*, so see it, know it, love it, be it, we'll adapt it as we go. Get ready."
    not at all. we're not esfjs. i'm a 5w4 like you. i just get impatient when i see the best outcome and people fuck with my shit. as an sx/sp, when i identify something i want, i focus on it very intently. we use Fe to have a good time as much as we use it to achieve perfect group harmony. we're aware of the group and it leaks into us, so we'd rather it flow smoothly, but for the most part, as Fe-Ti, we like to banter and play games and have enjoyable exchanges and repartee. or explore someone's inner values and try to understand their psychology, motives, story, context, etc. if we give someone a little bit of a lift, or clarify an inner struggle for someone else, it makes us feel good.

    e9s are much more peacemakery than e4s and e5s. e4s are focused on exploring themselves, and e5s are focused on mastering problems. as 4w5 and 5w4, there's a lot of overlap, and the psyche, and mankind, and enlightenment, well they're what drive us. we like to write and produce understanding, awareness, aesthetic authenticity (finding a voice, creating an aesthetic space for ourselves, an articulation of our way of seeing the world).

    Quote Originally Posted by FireyPheonix View Post
    This, and the fact once you have decided some thing will happen, you won't stop. The reality of the situation does not enter the mind of the INFJ, you bend reality, so it matches your vision. Oh and the fact you don't always listen to the other person's point of view because you are right, god damn it!(even when you are wrong:steam.
    It's not manipulation exactly, but, it can drive this INFP nuts. I do appreciate you guys, but back off!!
    Sorry, just venting about a particular INFJ in my life. I like you really
    there's is nothing infj specific in what you've said and could apply to anyone. introverts especially. ixxp thinks it KNOWS the truth, but ixxj thinks it SEES the situation accurately. both can be stubborn, and without successful communication, nothing gets revised or updated.

  7. #17
    Member Goodewitch's Avatar
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    Kalach asks if the 'Feeling of the day' is purposive or directed.
    If I'm understanding the question correctly (and theres a good chance I'm not)...
    I would say that in part yes,.. there will be purpose in how I personally inteact with someone on any given day, as I'm always thinking about the future and how the present relates to it, so yes, theres some amount of making my mood or feeling known, so that I can live with whats happening.
    I dont direct, as much as navigate, hour by hour, day by day, and make it known at salient points wether my feeings can go along with something, or wether they cant. To 'direct' would be to manipulate,.. but to check on where I am, and how Im feeling about it, to secure my future is purposive, I suppose. I dont manipulate or control the flow, I do however, voiciforously contest anything that puts a crimp in my future vision.
    Hows that for splitting hairs
    G. x
    My INFJ license is regulary revoked,.. I am a sometime refugee in the INTJ holding centre.

  8. #18
    Member Goodewitch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireyPheonix View Post
    This, and the fact once you have decided some thing will happen, you won't stop. The reality of the situation does not enter the mind of the INFJ, you bend reality, so it matches your vision. Oh and the fact you don't always listen to the other person's point of view because you are right, god damn it!(even when you are wrong:steam.
    It's not manipulation exactly, but, it can drive this INFP nuts. I do appreciate you guys, but back off!!
    Sorry, just venting about a particular INFJ in my life. I like you really
    Ohhh Hells bells Firey, I can imagine how it must feel like water torture, the slow drip drip drip of an impassioned INFJ on a roll, trying to convince you to see it their way. Its gotta be the most annoying thing ever. But would manipulation , of the kind so cunning that you dont even know its happening be any better?
    Maybe, its better that the INFJ in your life respects you enough to choose to engage you in an open, honest rant of epic proportions, rather than say 'Yes dear' and then go off and do his thing anyway, or manipulate you into agreeing, or worse still, deceive you.
    Or..... maybe not
    My INFJ license is regulary revoked,.. I am a sometime refugee in the INTJ holding centre.

  9. #19
    lab rat extraordinaire CrystalViolet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    there's is nothing infj specific in what you've said and could apply to anyone. introverts especially. ixxp thinks it KNOWS the truth, but ixxj thinks it SEES the situation accurately. both can be stubborn, and without successful communication, nothing gets revised or updated.
    This MY experience with INFJ's. You've just discounted my truth, because it isn't congruent with your perception, reinforcing my point. Again INFJ's either don't listen, or dismiss input because it doesn't align with thier reality. No, it's type specific, but in my experience, INFJ's do it far more consistantly then any other type. Occasionally, I wonder if the INFJ's that are currently in my circle have any grips on reality at all.
    Communication starts with listening, if you have already discounted what I have say because it doesn't fit your vision, then that two way, give and take aspect of communication isn't happening, you've let your side down. I can't comminicate if you've stuck a wall up and said that can't be.
    Currently submerged under an avalanche of books and paper work. I may come back up for air from time to time.
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  10. #20
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    Could you possibly give a real-life example? Because if I do that, I want to correct it, but I'm not positive I know what you're talking about. But I am having trouble with a younger friend because she accuses me of always knowing better. It makes me feel bad because I feel like I DO know better and I could save her a lot of time and frustration if she would try it as I suggest it, but I don't by any means intend to force her or be disappointed in her if she doesn't. Sometimes I learn that I didn't know what I was talking about after all and the other person shows me something new.

    I've thought a lot about Kalach's question and I still don't know the answer.

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