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[INFJ] When an INFJ doorslams you / cuts you out of their life / breaks off contact

PeaceBaby

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[MENTION=20531]yeghor[/MENTION]: I haven't forgotten your questions above. Will reply soon. :)
 

1487610420

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One other thought-I think for me, sometimes criticism is disorienting if it is completely at odds with my perceptions. While of course, I suppose it's difficult for one to completely separate ego, I don't think that's completely what drives my reaction. Rather, it's disconcerting to think that everything that are normally reliable ways by which to perceive and navigate the world are no longer trustworthy. If someone told me that I was mistakenly perceiving something as red, which was in reality yellow, I wouldn't just accept that statement immediately because up till this point my eyes have always been dependable. However, if you offered me an explanation for why your perception is reliable, the consequences my mid perception might have, Oran explanation of how a previously reliable sense now longer is, then I'll go and investigate, talk to others and reconsider.

During grad school I taught a class which the students were required to take and didn't want to. No one had been successful with it before, and I was given little guidance. I had no experience teaching at that level, but my emotional intelligence is decent and I thought I had a decent read on how people were responding in the class. When my reviews came out and were brutal, the devastation for me was not just embarrassment at having not delivered what my boss wanted, but rather that my perceptions were so off. I lost all confidence in anything I previously thought to be true about myself or my interactions with people. It was one of the scariest times in my whole life.

Now, 8 or 9 years later, I can much better separate out what I was responsible for, and what I was not. The fact that I wasn't a perfect prof, wasn't the issue, but rather trying to figure out what was my faulty perception and what was factors which had nothing to do with my teaching ability.

Everything is conditioned by @ bold.
 

Eilonwy

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In the INFJ world, people are chosen or elected to fill a role and then are expected to play the part. Playing that part successfully or poorly is dependent upon the actions of the other. The role of sibling, friend, partner ... inside the mind are the things an INFJ thinks each role is supposed to be.

For example, to be a successful friend, here's the list of things that are expected from you:

1.) Listen to me as much as I listen to you.
2.) Demonstrate goodwill towards me through acts of thoughtful consideration.
3.) Approach me in the manner I prefer since that demonstrates your goodwill.

etc etc.

These criteria enable an INFJ to create a "scorecard" and continually measure whether or not the people around them are living up to the standards of "how a *insert role* is supposed to be". Because this can be measured, an INFJ can thus make decisions on how low the score gets to go before they make the proclamation that this person is a toxic, parasitic person and thus should be cut from their life.

It's all about power. The following quote is bang-on:



Yes, that's how I see it. It is about control, and it's not necessarily a bad thing because INFJ's often feel that powerless sense of not being able to have the external world structure to their preferences. It's easier for INTJ's because they are dealing with the object world and people don't form the locus of where they enact their control. But people ... people are so unpredictable. One day they do something the "right" way, the next day they don't. So people who are consistent are very prized in the IxFJ world because the ability to project what the people around them are most likely to do is very valuable to both Ni and Si. The results: IxFJ's surround themselves with the people most "right" for them. The downside really doesn't exist for the INFJ (aside from their chagrin when people disappoint them) but those who are close to them may feel like they must dance the IxFJ dance or be written off or worse, doorslammed.

It's all about the power.

An aside: The phrase toxic people is so dehumanizing imo. People can act toxic, and do toxic things, but that doesn't make them TOXIC people. Most people are just here on this earthly plane struggling along to be the best people can be, dependent on all the programming instilled in them as children and the challenging life experiences they are working through and trying to grow from.

I don't have time right now, but I wanted to say that I see a lot of truth in this when I apply it to myself. I've had related thoughts, but haven't been able to put them together in quite this way, so I want to think about this more. It kind of jives with something [MENTION=5731]Kalach[/MENTION] posted, too. I need a little time to see how and if it all fits together (what you said, what I was thinking about, and what Kalach said). There's stuff in my head about trust that applies, too. And vulnerability. Lots to parse.

[MENTION=20531]yeghor[/MENTION], I'll answer you later, too. :)
 

yeghor

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[MENTION=20531]yeghor[/MENTION]: I haven't forgotten your questions above. Will reply soon. :)

Here's more :)...

1-What do you do when you feel that people that you have any kind of a relationship are taking advantage of you and insist that they are not?

or when you feel that they are not sincere? or feel that they have have ulterior motives?

2-About the power thing...power over what/who?

3-What kind of people in your life do you feel to be deserving your care/concern/value/time/energy?

4-How do you decide if someone is or deserves to be a friend or frenemy or not a friend at all?

5-About the downside thing...What is the downside for you in your relationships? Why should a downside in a relationship exist at all?

6-Toxic = It is when the "programming" you mentioned causes damage/distress/stress/harm not just to the individual himself/herself but to those around him/her and the people they interact with as well as causes an inability in the individual to recognize/acknowledge that those certain behaviours are harmful to others...

Parasitic = When the individual is inclined to capture more ground/energy than they are willing to relinquish themselves...(to compensate for some kind of energy deficit caused/installed in them when growing up)

7-http://lightshouse.org/lights-blog/parentification-of-children

"Emotional Parentification

The child is expected to take care of and fulfill the emotional needs of the adult. Some examples of emotional parentification are: reassuring the parent that they will be all right when upset, shielding the parent from the emotional consequences of their actions and adjusting behavior to suit the parent’s emotional interests."

8-What constitutes abuse/abusive behaviour in a relationship?

9-How do you end a relationship? How or do you interact with the other afterwards?
 
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cafe

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I was more or less groomed to be co-dependent from an early age and fall into that pattern of behavior unless I make an effort not to. It's a lot of effort to make, so I'm on friend hiatus until I feel up to dealing with my issues.

I don't expect people to listen to me as much as I listen to them. But if I listen to them when they are going through shit, I appreciate reciprocation when I'm going though shit. It will make me feel used if that doesn't happen. I do like feeling as though things are balanced or as close to that as possible.

When I doorslammed my mom for several years, it was because I asked her not to bring a questionable person around my kids. She ignored my wishes. That was the last straw. Before that I attempted to negotiate a compromise with her but that was when I knew absolutely that she was not acting in good faith. When she severed ties with that person, I welcomed her back with open arms.

With one friend things were out of balance for a long time. When I tried to address things, I had to be very blunt and rude and it only produced temporary results. She lived at my house for months for free and I was paying her car insurance. I had to physically drive her places to look for jobs because she would not do it otherwise. My husband had to ask her for the use of his computer when he came home from work. Later she moved in with a mutual friend who has small children. She left her medication out where they could get it in a non-childproof container and when she was confronted about it, acted as though she had a perfect right to do that. That was the last straw for me. She thought her right to leave her crap lying around the home she was staying at for free was more important than the right of small children to be safe in their own home. At that point, I was like, WTF is the matter with me that I'm friends with this person? I was loyal to her because she was my friend in fifth grade when I was very lonely and bullied, but, yeah, I guess the tally sheet was just too far in the red. I hope wonderful things for her, but unless there was some indication that she changed significantly, I can't do it anymore. I won't do it anymore. I should have never let things get to the point they did, but honestly, I did try to make boundaries with her. She either plowed right over them or manipulated her way around them. When I was done, I was done and that was that.
 

Fidelia

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I guess I wonder what we are talking about now. If we're talking suddenly cutting people out of our life because they are human and disappoint us from time to time or because we do not wish to communicate directly, then of course, I think that the comments made are valid. If we're talking about someone who is endangering our own safety, or the safety of those we are responsible for, or if they are using up our resources to an extent that those resources are not available to the primary obligations in our own lives, then I really don't agree with either Eilonwy or PeaceBaby that it is about power.

I also would like to distinguish that it is not like most INFJs are actively keeping a scorecard - you do this for me, I do that for you. It's more of an involuntary process - like a program running in the background. It certainly isn't acted on immediately either. Because I tend to listen well to people and be interested in them, that sometimes attracts friends who have a lot of emotional need and drama in their own lives, but very little emotional rope left to give if there is anything going on in mine. (I'm talking two hour phone call monologue that includes not even a "How are you?"). In some cases, it is obvious that they are temporarily experiencing hard times and need support, or we have had previous history to fall back on and they have an insufficient support system.

However, if it is just chronic self-centredness and wanting to reap all of the perks of a friendship, without any of the obligations of it, then the balance of power does get out of whack. They are receiving all of the care, while still retaining 100% of the control over our interactions. I have seen enough of marriages close up where that is the case, that I have no desire to foster close relationships that have that kind of unhealthy imbalance. I think it is no kindness to the person in need, as it only allows them to cope temporarily instead of addressing real issues, and the more time to you spend with someone who has a very narcissistic view of the world, you also have to become a bit tunnel visioned to adapt. I have gotten better now at recognizing that earlier on and being kind, but disengaging somewhat so that the other person does not become dependent on me. Otherwise, the main choice I am left with is trying to disengage much later on when the person is ignoring appropriate boundaries and expenditure of resources (emotional, physical, financial, time).

My father and mother were always very hospitable and people were drawn to her warmth, my dad's affability and the home they had created. I don't think she and my dad were wrong in opening their home to many different people. However, in some cases, they did learn from experience when people were con artists, had active addictions, had no desire to improve the situation that was creating constant crisis, or were unwilling to deal with issues that were alienating people all around them. It's certainly not my call to make people deal with whatever is going on with them, but that also doesn't obligate me to repeatedly interact with people who are not respectful of me. I do believe that we teach people how to treat us, and without any lines in the sand, some people will drain you dry. I simply cannot write that off as being a control freak or power monger, even though I definitely agree that you do not just doorslam people as your way of dealing with dicey, or emotionally difficult situations.

In the case of my sister, who was married to a self-destructive, violent, depressed, cheating and alcoholic man (who attempted suicide the first time she went to visit family without him 20 years into their marriage), she did not sign off in a way that I believe 3 shared children and 20+ years of marriage deserved. I don't think that was healthy for her, kind to their children, or fair to him, even though I think she absolutely did need to get out of there for her own mental health and for all of their physical safety. It has impeded her children's healing process and her own, I believe. He has since passed away (fire he started while drunk and then passed out - something that frequently happened when they were still together), and she lived every day of the year they were separated terrified for her own life. She wasn't at all wrong to leave, in my opinion. However, I think that just announcing she was going and then not responding to any communication after that (when the last he and the children had known, things were fine between them) was not right.
 

Z Buck McFate

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I stole this TED talk from someone's blog because I think Brene Brown has it right about vulnerability and connection. I think that's what happened with me when I took the chance and took another look at this thread and at Mane.

You know, everyone here is free to make their own choices. If you're fine with severing connections completely, or avoiding them in the first place, that's your choice. Own it instead of rationalizing it as being someone else's fault. Because if you want connections and want to keep them, it seems you have to be willing to be vulnerable. Slow processing times, trust issues, and low energy, notwithstanding.

First of all, even Brene Brown urges that it's a mistake to show vulnerability where it doesn't feel right to do so: Why Brené Brown Says There's No Vulnerability Without Trust

How do you open up to someone you don't completely trust? Dr. Brené Brown, an expert on vulnerability and worthiness, has a one-word answer: "Don't." Watch Dr. Brown explain why vulnerability is our greatest gift and how we shouldn't give it to people who haven't earned it. Plus, Dr. Brown reveals how you can use your openness and honesty to filter out those who aren't worth your time.

Secondly, when you say "own it".....are you referring to actual doorslams that have happened in people's lives (and insinuating that INFJs here have related to stories about having doorslammed people they were close to irl, and done so in such a way that you believe they 'blamed' the person they couldn't handle interacting with anymore more than they should) or is this more about INFJs here not being able to handle too much interaction with some of the other members here?** [I get the impression- from the way you keep bringing up 'giving mane a second chance'- it's the latter, and for the sake of fairness I want to point out there's a huge difference between "distancing someone you hardly know on an internet forum" and "doorslamming someone you've been close to irl". I believe the latter should incite a much stronger obligation and responsibility.]

Thirdly:

So, is the doorslam a way to feel in control? To have some power in the relationship? A way to avoid being vulnerable, or making choices that we find unpleasant in some way?

The phrases "feel in control" and "to have some power in the relationship", in my mind, imply wanting the lion's share of 'control' or 'power'. But the truth is- yes, everyone should want 'control' and 'power' in a relationship. They should want the same amount of 'control' and 'power' the other person has. [And there's something seriously f'ed up about interaction where a person gets accused of wanting to "control the relationship" simply because they want *some* control within the relationship- it's a common tendency of narcissists though to make this accusation, to make the person with weak boundaries feel bad for trying to assert any boundaries at all around themselves.]



**eta: It seems to me like these two things are getting merged together when they shouldn't because it's two separate issues. If I'm mistaken about this though, I apologize. Like I keep saying, I'm only reading maybe half the new posts- so it wouldn't surprise me if I was reading something wrong.
 
S

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disclaimer: applicable to the solipsists mentality only, regardless of MBTI intersection.
The downside really doesn't exist for the INFJ (aside from their chagrin when people disappoint them)

i can see that in the short term, but isn't it a trade off though?
the unpleasant experience of acknowledging your mistakes vs. the benefit of dealing & fixing them.
the unpleasant experience of acknowledging potential failings vs. the long term reward of learning and growing from them.

i illustrated this earlier by applying the coping mechanism to areas of skill (having more concrete effects):


there is no question that in the short term, these all benefit from feeling better about themselves and avoid unpleasant thoughts in the immediate level.

but in the long term, would feeling [unappreciated by your patients / misunderstood as an architect / negative feedback by people you affect] and possibly feeling wrongfully prosecuted as a result (malpractice lawsuits) or even rejected by your [doctor insurance / legal insurance / employer / support network] actually be a more pleasant state of mind than simply having had screwups you had to learn from (and if possible even fixed) and becoming a trustworthy doctor/architect/teacher/whatever?

less concretely the same is applicable to relationships - would feeling that people are [ toxic/disappointing/misunderstanding/malicious/disrespectful/distrustful] towards you really be that much more pleasant than simply working on your screw ups to have healthy relationships?

hey, if i lived in a toxic zombie apocalypse i'd be looking into erecting walls and "working on my boundaries" too:
 
S

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The phrases "feel in control" and "to have some power in the relationship", in my mind, imply wanting the lion's share of 'control' or 'power'.

the power to terminate a relationship & no longer be liable to any consequences you have on another or any trust placed in you if anything doesn't go your way isn't the lion share of the power... it's all the power. not 50/50, not 90/100, it's the full 100% of it. you are trying to eat the cake and pretend to share it too.

FYI - when trying to argue for why you shouldn't be expected to maintaining long term stable relationships or be open to negative criticism, NPD is not the diagnosis you want on the table ;)
 

PeaceBaby

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If we're talking about someone who is endangering our own safety, or the safety of those we are responsible for, or if they are using up our resources to an extent that those resources are not available to the primary obligations in our own lives, then I really don't agree with either Eilonwy or PeaceBaby that it is about power.

Respectfully, it is still about power. It's about you taking some back. It's about giving too much away in the first place or giving it away in a manner that's enabled other dysfunctions. It's about a rebalancing more than anything.

Power is a complex thing. Sometimes enabling the dysfunction of others is a kind of power-play in and of itself. I don't want to explore that too much here and make the waters muddy though.

But be clear that I'm not saying this choice to pull power back is inherently bad. In fact, it's downright necessary at times. The point merely remains that YOU are making a choice, not that the other individual MADE you make a choice.

When you speak of boundaries, I hear that. I too have spent countless hours supporting people who don't necessarily appear to appreciate the gift I've given them. I've unwittingly enabled people to be clingy and needy. But I OWN that, those were / these are my choices, I choose to listen and at any time I could assert my own independence in the matter and gracefully detach myself. It has everything to do with me. Does that distinction help illustrate what I am trying to convey?
 

Fidelia

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The world POWER has a lot of negative connotations. I think that is where I find it hard to agree with you. If a relationship needs rebalancing, as long as I'm not slamming the door without any kind of communication or warning, I see nothing wrong with distancing oneself from a situation that isn't healthy for either person. Of course there's a place for reflection on what led to the imbalance in the first place and what my part in that was. That however seems different to me than what I see being advocated for.

I wouldn't argue that someone MADE me make a choice to doorslam them. That's akin to the abusive husband saying that "I had to hit her because she pushes my buttons". I don't use doorslamming as a means of dealing with unwieldy personal connections in my life. However, I also believe that as I can control no one's behaviour except my own, it is perfectly acceptable to make choices about my own response based on the decisions the other person has already made.

Perhaps I am mistaken, but I do feel that you and Eilonwy are both advocating not doing that and I think it can lead to a place that isn't either safe or healthy for all parties involved. I don't know the particulars of Mane's situation, as I know neither him nor his ex personally. However, it does seem to me that it would have been wiser for his ex to have started negotiating about control issues long before it came to a point of her cutting him off from his stepson.

In my own life, the ESTJ I dated was a very dominant and immediate kind of person, while I was less dominant and slower to act until I had observed a lot. At the beginning, I didn't have a clear understanding of what kind of impact his being allowed to consistently dominate (even in my domain of work) would have on our relationship, or my social and professional life. As I became less overwhelmed with all the changes of adjusting to a new culture and community and a job that was pretty uncharted territory and constantly evolving, I slowly took back some of the ground that I had given in that sense. It was not an angry reaction, so much as an understanding that I needed a wider base of support (several different people who could help with the program, instead of just him), that I needed to be personally responsible for how I was represented to the people I needed to work with (bus drivers for our music program trips, principals, teachers, etc), and that I needed my own social identity as an individual if our relationship and our separate lives were going to thrive. This was both appropriate and healthy. It was not a doorslam, but yes, you are right that it was a re-distribution of power.

I think all relationships are constantly in flux in that regard. A healthy relationship maintains a roughly equal balance of power. If one person is giving away control, or the other person is in control (both aspects come with perks and drawbacks), I don't think it fosters happiness for either person in the long term, even if one or both parties may fight to maintain the imbalance because it is familiar or there are certain perks that come with the drawbacks. The trick in maintaining an equal balance of power is how to right the relationship once an imbalance of power has begun. Often in the early stages of a friendship, familial connection, or romantic relationship, people don't understand themselves and their own tendencies well enough, nor do they have the life experience to recognize when imbalance that isn't positive is starting to occur. By the time that is discovered, usually old patterns of relating are well entrenched. People are generally resistant to change, particularly if it creates discomfort for them and there are a variety of possible responses that either party can choose to make, some that are effective, and some that aren't.

So I'm wondering if maybe the argument here that should be made is about how to rebalance unequal power in a positive way (ie not doorslamming), not whether or not power needs redistribution.
 
S

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So I'm wondering if maybe the argument here that should be made is about how to rebalance unequal power in a positive way (ie not doorslamming), not whether or not power needs redistribution.

i actually agree with that.

i already explained how maintaining "the right to doorslam" in existing relationships if anything doesn't go your way is an unhealthy take of a 100% of the power in a relationship. giving that up is a healthy rebalancing of unequal power. essentially it's like holding a gun to every relationship's head for the prospecting doorslammer to judge when someone is dead to you (and then demanding they will play dead), as long as you hold that gun no relationship is ever going to have a healthy distribution of power unless they do the same to you.

that's being said, i think part of the problem is that their is a demand for a 1-fit-all alternative for a 1-fits-all defense mechanism: the alternative solution to running from problems with people is to actually solve and/or deal with them, but the particulars of how to do aren't going to be consistent. generally creating a level playing field where both perspectives are accounted for is always a good idea towards trying to understand how the perspectives can be bridged (regardless of how that perspective might conflict with the ego), but even that's not a solution, it's just a good strategy to get a better position to be able to see one.

to be honest i am sort of surprised that you'd be tackling the issue of healthy power distribution - one of the main reasons i generally avoid you on the forum is because of the speech from two years ago or so about demanding full and complete control over anyone interacting with you - mind if i ask how did that changed and what caused it too (or if i am jumping to conclusion that it has)?
 

Fidelia

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In my life, I think it really depends how much history I have with someone, how much I trust them based on past interactions and what their approach is before I am willing to expend tons and tons of emotional energy trying to negotiate something out of two really opposite points of view. I mostly dig in my heels when someone I know very little demands for me to do so and essentially calls me a bad person if I don't. Having said that, it doesn't mean that I won't consider something if it is brought to my attention. It just is unlikely to be in the timeframe that many Ne users seem to operate in.

While I had no doubt in that thread that you and others had been hurt by INFJs in the past, it also seemed to me that we as a whole were being commanded to to answer for the crimes of someone else we didn't know who exhibited behaviour I didn't identify with. Because of your strong emotional tone, it really discredited much of what was being said, for me. I felt that even at points where I was trying to oblige, those efforts were unrecognized because they didn't match the Ne point of view. I tend to be dismissive when someone has initiated a discussions about my perceived faults when there is no demonstration of goodwill, the person is promoting only their perceptions as a valid response, and I do not have a strong enough relationship with them to be invested and know where they are coming from. One difference I've seen in the approach by Ne is the need for immediacy and there's some green eggs and hamming that sometimes occurs that causes enough emotional noise that for me, the message gets lost. Giving a little more space is not so much a demand that things be approached my way, as an essential processing need for useful discussion, which I can imagine is intensely irritating and frustrating to others who have a different set of needs.

I'm not suggesting that I can't improve the way I approach different people, but I am advocating for respecting how they operate if the relationship/discussion/outcome matters a lot to you.

I don't think that INFJs all habitually door slam. However, like any type, I believe there are tendencies that they are more likely to exhibit under.pressure or when they immature/in a bad place emotionally that are more typical of their type. Perhaps their negative coping mechanisms are more likely to be especially frustrating or distressing to NFPs and NTPs compared to other types, who might be bothered by something completely different.

I don't really feel like I've had any huge epiphany about power, nor am I denying that it is my responsibility to choose how I will interact (not only the other person's approach). However, I do make some decisions based on the other person's tone and approach (hence the questions earlier in the thread about tone and intent) to assess whether or not the discussion will yield anything productive and whether it warrants expending the energy and thought that would require. I am not sure of that entirely yet, but it seems to me that it might be.

I wonder if maybe our types are bendy and rigid in opposite places, which leads to a lot of the misunderstanding that occurs. Then when either type decides to be immovable, it appears that there is rigidity everywhere the other looks, and an unwillingness to compromise. In reality, both parties do a lot of bending that goes unrecognized by the other group because it is not in the areas they associate bendiness with within themselves. Don't know, just kind of thinking aloud.
 

PeaceBaby

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And yet, fid, I have literally hundreds of goodwill posts under my belt. It's about way more than that. It's also about not wanting to hear something you don't agree with. And it's not about Ne immediacy. I give space, since I know INFJ's need it. I'm patient. That makes little difference either. Unless we're talking about INFJ's needing YEARS to process something. That's a timeframe I don't have as much patience towards. Might as well live half your life then whilst waiting for an INFJ to get back to you. No, once an INFJ has decided to put something out of their head only repeated knocking can bring it back to the forefront sometimes.

And I do recognize you're in this thread, yet again. I appreciate that.

The word power has as many positive connotations as negative. It's more about the perspective through which anyone chooses to view the word. Because you've chosen negative, [MENTION=7111]fidelia[/MENTION], you can't help but feel I'm advocating some sort of relinquishing of personal autonomy. I'm not, of course. How does the view of my posts change if you start to see the word as neutral? Or even positive?

[MENTION=15291]Mane[/MENTION] is picking up on the path I'm nudging towards. It's about the recognition that in a typical relationship dynamic its unfair for one person to reserve control of 100% of the interactions (barring abusive scenarios which require these measures). Anyone reserving the "right" to terminate interactions unequivocally defeats any ability to solve complex issues and often leaves the other in a position of having to relinquish their own personal power to maintain peace. It feels like a metaphorical guillotine held over the head ...

And it's the whole "egg shells" thing too. I mean look at all the hoops I go through to communicate something I feel is important to you or ZBuck. And you both practically have me on ignore, not because I am a heinous, hurtful person, but mostly because you don't like what I have to say or how I try to say it. I have goodwill on this forum coming out the wazoo. :shrug: I mean, is it so far a stretch to imagine that Mane hasn't done much more than that to cause this doorslam in his own life?

At any rate, I'll return to depersonalizing this: When INFJ's (or anyone) hold the last card on the issue of doorslamming, they can, in effect, hold all of their interactions with others hostage to the ultimate power play. It says, "If you don't do it the way I want, I won't acknowledge you. You don't exist to me. I will CUT you from my life." People sense these power dynamics because it's part of the fundament of human interactions. Intuitively and subconsciously one knows where they stand in the pack order. We just don't think of it like this because we're conditioned not to retain that awareness of where everyone is in the pack (or pecking order). It hearkens back to the concept of people being held in tiers of interaction. It's about power and control.

eta: every type has a power card, btw with the power to do great damage. INFJs happen to have the doorslam.
 

Eilonwy

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However, I do make some decisions based on the other person's tone and approach (hence the questions earlier in the thread about tone and intent) to assess whether or not the discussion will yield anything productive and whether it warrants expending the energy and thought that would require.

The bolded really stood out to me. And I do understand about the energy output and all of that--I definitely deal with that too. It can be necessary to prioritize. But my question is, how can you know whether it will yield anything productive? Because it seems that you are only assessing what will be productive to you with the knowledge you have to this point. What if there is knowledge you don't have that will come out of the effort? What if you are unable to see that at the time and are keeping yourself from knowledge that you might end up valuing? Again, I understand about the limited energy and slow processing. And we can't pursue every area of knowledge. But how do you go about assessing for those times that it might not seem productive, and yet might end up being productive?


ETA: I will answer your previous posts' concerns later, if you still want me to, but I didn't want to branch the conversation out too much, as I know it can be difficult to deal with too many different issues at once.



And I'll get to everyone else I owe a reply to, also.
 

Fidelia

Iron Maiden
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PB, even other NFPs have explained to you why I am not receptive to your approach. We have very few conversations where you don't try to mentor me, but your comments seem personally driven rather than objective. You have loads of credibility for me in other areas, but not in this one. Yet you repeatedly and publicly hammer this point instead of giving some space and seeing if things change (and since the pattern has been reinforced for years, it will take lots of time for my perceptions to be replaced). You don't tend to look for neutral common ground first to relate, even though I know you have a heart of gold. I don't want to be mean or make you feel badly. Therefore, I generally don't interact a lot with you, as all roads always seem to lead back here. I already know you are hurt by my response. I'm already working on changing it, while not acting fake and insincere and maintaining the boundaries I need. Each time you reopen the topic, it undoes some of that and reinforces the reason I felt that way in the first place. Strong arming your way into my heart is not possible. However, I think you are smart, caring and very knowledgeable. I don't harbour any bad feeling toward you. In fact, outside of these discussions, I like you. I just don't feel enough on the same page as you to be besties, and I need you to respect that.
 

Fidelia

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Eilonwy, we make those decisions everyday. When I walk into a crowded room I could engage in conversation with anyone. I can't know where all the conversations could go. So I go on who looks interesting, who I get on with, who I could be of help to, who has knowledge that I need and so on.

I have very little leisure time in my life. Therefore, the bit of time I have is time that I would like to be enjoyable and useful to me. We make decisions based on a variety of criteria about how we will spend our money. Why should it be any different with time?
 

yeghor

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Are we talking about the same thing in regards to "doorslam"?

What do you understand by the term "doorslam" in brief terms?
 

Fidelia

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My perception of the word doorslam is when you cut someone out of your life entirely without warning and with no communication after. Some people seem to habitually do this as a way of avoiding people that frustrate them or make them feel vulnerable. Some people will reintroduce someone back into their life after they have distanced themselves a bit from the situation, and some won't. In the context of this thread at least, that is what I believe it to mean.
 
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