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[INFJ] When an INFJ doorslams you / cuts you out of their life / breaks off contact

SilkRoad

Lay the coin on my tongue
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i actually don't know - i dealt with someone who suspected they had BPD but i have no idea if it was the case.


offer a trade.

Er, I want to laugh but I'm not sure what that means.

I hope you get my point. About last resorts. This is last-resort stuff we're talking about. Particularly in a case when first you tell someone nicely that you need more space. They still try to suck you dry. Then you tell them less nicely. Then you send them bullet-point lists about your personal boundaries. Then you scream "leave me alone". Then you come frighteningly close to hitting them. All of this punctuated by hours of exhausting conversations. Then finally...you think about maybe shutting them out entirely. And no, I'm not slightly exaggerating about any of this.
 
S

Society

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I hope you get my point. About last resorts. This is last-resort stuff we're talking about. Particularly in a case when first you tell someone nicely that you need more space. They still try to suck you dry. Then you tell them less nicely. Then you send them bullet-point lists about your personal boundaries. Then you scream "leave me alone". Then you come frighteningly close to hitting them. All of this punctuated by hours of exhausting conversations. Then finally...you think about maybe shutting them out entirely. And no, I'm not slightly exaggerating about any of this.

see, i feel that your telling yourself its the last resort when you are the one who has decided to blind yourself to other resorts. do you understand that with the humility to acknowledge you haven't covered all the possible solutions to the relationship problems no matter how hard you believe you tried, that you human and are limited in your capacity to do so, it is impossible to ever know that the other person is incapable of offering solutions and possibilities that you haven't tried yet?

Er, I want to laugh but I'm not sure what that means.
trade - offer her something that she wants in exchange of her doing what you want. you asked me what i would do - thats what i would do.
 

SilkRoad

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see, i feel that your telling yourself its the last resort when you are the one who has decided to blind yourself to other resorts. do you understand that with the humility to acknowledge you haven't covered all the possible solutions to the relationship problems no matter how hard you believe you tried, that you human and are limited in your capacity to do so, it is impossible to ever know that the other person is incapable of offering solutions and possibilities that you haven't tried yet?

Honestly?!

What would you do in this situation? Tell me.

What if you don't want to try any more because of the damage you've suffered? That's definitely part of it.

Do you not understand why some of the INFJs in this thread might take offense? "You've decided to blind yourself." Good grief.
 
V

violaine

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This just seems like a very elaborate version of:

A: I'm not interested in what you have to say any more.
B: But I really, really want you to be.
A: Noted, but I'm not.
B: Okay, but I really, really, really think you should be.

Lol :yes:

------

So, if I'm to understand correctly, anyone entering a relationship is expected to keep the relationship going in some form unless by mutual consent? I have to ask because that makes no sense to me.

Closing the door on a relationship is not part of a power game. Actually, that thought had never even occurred to me. It's an "I'm done. I'm moving on with my life and this new phase does not include you."
 
S

Society

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Honestly?!

What would you do in this situation? Tell me.

sorry the edit took a moment, it's there now.

Do you not understand why some of the INFJs in this thread might take offense? "You've decided to blind yourself." Good grief.
offensive != untrue.

i would get offended when people would tell me i had a smoking problem and was blind to the smells i forced people around me to indure but it was still true.
 

SilkRoad

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trade - offer her something that she wants in exchange of her doing what you want. you asked me what i would do - thats what i would do.

Yeah...if they want your exclusive devotion and to take over your life, that's where it's a problem.

I thought I was supposed to offer her heroin or something...
 
S

Society

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Yeah...if they want your exclusive devotion and to take over your life, that's where it's a problem.

it sounds to me like she craves your attention, and what your doing - pushing her away - is making her want it more and cling to it more desperately. arrange an hour to meet her for coffee sometime next week - giving her a taste of what she wants - and then if she still bugs you tell her you'll only show up if she gives you the space in the mean time.
 

BalanceFind

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The problem with not reversing a decision after it is made, is that sometimes those decisions are made way too quickly without all of the facts or evidence.

My approach is gather enough info, no more, make decision, and stick with decision unless, or until new info comes to light to change decision. I then would have zero problem changing my decision upon new information.

My infj was very stubborn. She would never reverse or re-visit decisions even when facts and evidence screamed for her to do so. It definitely an area of emphasis in my experience.

I find it interesting because the general open nature to change is something I like about infj types. The ones I have known have been all about change, except when it comes to reversing decisions they have made.

The other challenge for me was the victim role. Just because you were a victim some time in your past, doean't mean you are always a victim.

What worked for us were positive routines, taking the focus of self. Live in moment with balance, with eye on future. My infj was at her best when she was spontaneous at least part of the time. And when she was just with me she didn't care about image. Those were the best moments.

We could communicate without words often on all kinds of topics. That was great. With many other previous isfj 9 types, I didn't have that. I loved their salt of the earth demeanor, but those were often times way too conservative for me.

Healthy infj 4w3 types have been the ones I have connected with the most. j have the easiest fun with Esfp/Enfp types, but in terms of dating, no. Fun friends yes.

My infj 4w3 just became unhealthy, and yes, sorry to say I will crush her like a bug legally to the very end. But she's just one person.
 

SilkRoad

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it sounds to me like she craves your attention, and what your doing - pushing her away - is making her want it more and cling to it more desperately. arrange an hour to meet her for coffee sometime next week - giving her a taste of what she wants - and then if she still bugs you tell her you'll only show up if she gives you the space in the mean time.

I've done that, but it's more like "coffee in July" with a break going on currently. She's already tried to push it in the meantime, specifically against the terms of our agreement, so she should be aware that she is playing a very dangerous game...

Seems like every time someone offers me advice about this situation, I've tried it all. This is where last resorts come in. But hey, I guess I'm blinding myself.............................................

:coffee:
 

1487610420

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Relevant post?

^^^^^^^^
I've gotta say that the way [MENTION=15291]Mane[/MENTION] worded this reminded me of what really bothers me about doorslamming. I understand that cutting off contact may be a natural and valid choice if you're an INFJ. And that for the doorslamming INFJ it always seems like there is a valid reason.

But doorslamming still seems so unilateral. It's inherently selfish. And frankly, it oftentimes seems shortsighted.

Maybe it's a P/J thing. But the idea of permanently cutting off one's options with another person (which is what doorslamming is all about) just feels offensive to me.

A sensible person wouldn't put up with this sort of behaviour. It's exhausting. I understand needing to take a day or two to brew things over, but ultimately, clear communication needs to be established.

At the same time though...I don't think YWIR was advocating 'try to stop all INFJs from ever doorslamming again by showing them the error of their ways'. She can come and correct me if I'm wrong...but I think she even stated a few pages back...'no sensable person would put up with this behavior'. Like in a 'move on - don't waste your time' kind of way.


One of the biggest problems with door slamming, is that it very easily leads to miscommunication. Time goes by and then both sides have to guess and make assumptions, many of which are false or incorrect. All of this leads to problems and the spreading of misinformation.

The erros of fact my infj has made after the fact due to self isolation is pretty staggering. The more time that goes by and less check ins the more the errors of fact and miscommunication, self absorption, and believing the worst.

This just seems like a very elaborate version of:

A: I'm not interested in what you have to say any more.
B: But I really, really want you to be.
A: Noted, but I'm not.
B: Okay, but I really, really, really think you should be.

I'm sure most IxxJs would find this futile, particularly were it preceded by a whole lot of riffraff, not just INFJs. I know mature ExxPs in real life (some from this forum) that would agree. They're not present in this discussion, but I am fortunate enough to have their friendship and they don't assume their judgment would serve me better on how to lead my life. A couple are wise enough to be unsure if their own judgment always serves their own lives. I admire these two particularly for their honesty and humility.

Esoteric brought this up, but to expect an IxxJ to continuously 'float' without requiring and working towards closure is the same as expecting an ExxP to reach definitive decision points/closure as a lifestyle. The two will always have inherently different approaches: it's what makes them vastly different. For myself, I don't 'expect' ExxP's to become like me.. it's just not fair to them and also would take away what makes them THEM. I also would only be with an ExxP if they were ok with how my primary preferences were: and I with them. The success between the two will only occur if both are in the end not trying to morph the other into someone they are not.

no, i am simply saying that by the very nature of the doorslam, you are avoiding critical information about whether the claims on you are legitimate.

and as for your case, i just have to say; seriously? you have to doorslam her because you can't say "no i'm with other friends" or "no i'm busy" or "no i want to be alone for awhile"? your assertive enough to doorslam but not to do all of those?

It was a dark and stormy night...
...and as I read the posts, a clear view formed between the critical aspects behind them and I envisioned of making a well founded, insightful post, bridging it all together and bringing closure to the thread and peace on earth and...

...and...

...then it dawned on me:
  • What's the point?
  • Who cares?
  • And why/why not?
  • Why bother in either case?
  • What would it change?
  • Would it fix the INFJ's [or any other type] of the world so that their reasoning would never fault them or anyone else, and doorslamming would always be a healthy course of action?
  • Would it fixthe receivers of the door-slam to stop causing INFJ [or any other type] to having to resort to dishing it out?
  • Would it end the J/P divide of different stances on keeping options open, need for closure, <insert relevant clashing dynamics here>?
  • Would it end all miscommunication and door-slamming between people of all types from ever happening again, ensuring peace on Earth and ending poverty and world hunger?

And since I could not honestly answer any of the above with an affirmative response, I've decided to leave it at that. :shrug:
 
S

Society

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I've done that, but it's more like "coffee in July" with a break going on currently. She's already tried to push it in the meantime, specifically against the terms of our agreement, so she should be aware that she is playing a very dangerous game...

Seems like every time someone offers me advice about this situation, I've tried it all. This is where last resorts come in. But hey, I guess I'm blinding myself.............................................

:coffee:

the important part of not blinding yourself is to remember that not finding a solution doesn't mean there isn't one, it just means you dont have one at the time. likewise, your saying you don't want to spend your own energy on finding one.

so why not ask her to do it for you? write a letter describing your PoV, how you feel about the situation, and tell her that if she wants to come back into your life she needs to come back with a solution that will work for both of you.

i don't know about her, but if my exwife did that to me i would be a million times greatful - by examining my mistakes i already came up with solutions to most of our problems and how to establish the conditions from which the trust that both sides have broken is allowed to regrow organically.
likewise, when i was a teen and a very good friend (INFJ) doorslammed me because she told me she had feelings for me and she got hurt by me not sharing those, i found a solution and wanted to introduce her to someone i thought she'd like, but she wouldn't let me past the door.

see, i think that's what bothers me most of all - i know that i will always find solutions eventually. why is it so wrong to demand patience?
 

SilkRoad

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the important part of not blinding yourself is to remember that not finding a solution doesn't mean there isn't one, it just means you dont have one at the time. likewise, your saying you don't want to spend your own energy on finding one.

so why not ask her to do it for you? write a letter describing your PoV, how you feel about the situation, and tell her that if she wants to come back into your life she needs to come back with a solution that will work for both of you.

i don't know about her, but if my exwife did that to me i would be a million times greatful - by examining my mistakes i already came up with solutions to most of our problems and how to establish the conditions from which the trust that both sides have broken is allowed to regrow organically.
likewise, when i was a teen and a very good friend (INFJ) doorslammed me because she told me she had feelings for me and she got hurt by me not sharing those, i found a solution and wanted to introduce her to someone i thought she'd like, but she wouldn't let me past the door.

see, i think that's what bothers me most of all - i know that i will always find solutions eventually. why is it so wrong to demand patience?


Trust me, my dear. I have done all of this. Hours of conversations. Letters lasting pages. Etc. Enormous patience. The word other people keep using when I talk to them about this.

You're being terribly magnanimous but amazingly, blind as I am, I have thought of all this. It's difficult when people give you their plan of attack for how they're going to fix the relationship, and it sounds reasonable...and then they revert to the crazy behaviour over and over again. Maybe she can't help it. But I can't help her beyond what I've done.

Which is why I think I'm probably done...both with that particular relationship, and with this discussion... We shall have to agree to disagree.
 

BalanceFind

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There is not a day that goes by that I don't wish I could walk away from my door slammer.

My sympathy and empathy decreases over time. Door slamming infj's can mistakenly think others think the worst of them, which isn't true. Then because of lack of communication over time, what door slamming infj's originally incorrectly think, actually happens. I went from shock, to empathy, sympathy, compassion, for a long time, to much worse over time. The quantity of time is a big problem. Self absorption and isolation causes tunnel vision and incorrect assumptions about the thoughts, and actions of others.
 
S

Society

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You're being terribly magnanimous but amazingly, blind as I am, I have thought of all this. It's difficult when people give you their plan of attack for how they're going to fix the relationship, and it sounds reasonable...and then they revert to the crazy behaviour over and over again. Maybe she can't help it. But I can't help her beyond what I've done.

it sounds to me like you haven't followed the idea in full - if she reverts back to her own behavior that means that what she is offering you is entirely to apease you, and not a solution that works for both of you, because obviously - it doesn't work for her, and if the solution doesn't demonstrate that it would also work for her then there's no reason to accept it as a viable solution - "go back to the drawing board".

Which is why I think I'm probably done...both with that particular relationship, and with this discussion... We shall have to agree to disagree.
that's your choice to make.
 

BalanceFind

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I wish every day that I could walk away from my door slammer.

My sympathy and empathy decreases over time. Door slamming infj's can mistakenly think others think the worst of them, which isn't true. Then because of lack of communication over time, what door slamming infj's originally incorrectly think, actually happens. I went from shock, to empathy, sympathy, compassion, for a long time, to much worse over time. The quantity of time is a big problem. Self absorption and isolation causes tunnel vision and incorrect assumptions about the thoughts, and actions of others.
 
S

Society

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I wish every day that I could walk away from my door slammer.

My sympathy and empathy decreases over time. Door slamming infj's can mistakenly think others think the worst of them, which isn't true. Then because of lack of communication over time, what door slamming infj's originally incorrectly think, actually happens. I went from shock, to empathy, sympathy, compassion, for a long time, to much worse over time. The quantity of time is a big problem. Self absorption and isolation causes tunnel vision and incorrect assumptions about the thoughts, and actions of others.
interesting, i went from shock to rage over all the other consequances of the doorslam, to self doubt to cold hearted analysis to sadness to sympathy & compassion. unfortunately - unlike a lot of other doorslamming stories - mine wanted me back, she just happened to want me back in the rage part.
 

BalanceFind

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interesting, i went from shock to rage over all the other consequances of the doorslam, to self doubt to cold hearted analysis to sadness to sympathy & compassion. unfortunately - unlike a lot of other doorslamming stories - mine wanted me back, she just happened to want me back in the rage part.

I have had all of the emotions. My very first thought was fear that something had happened to her. once I found out nothing did, my very next thought was that she manipulated me and used me. It was not a master plan. She got in over her head and out of self preservation she was willing to destroy anyone. That was an amazing betrayal to me. The hardest part. How do you go from every day contact for many years, mostly all positive, to nothing, just to save yourself? Wow.

I tried to help an unhealthy person. I tried and tried and tried. She refused communication. Now it is all about how I can get my money from her the fastest and easiest for me. It is a lot of anger and outrage, but I hide that part from everyone until I get my money. I can keep a cool head most of the time, which has been extremely challenging for me. But make no mistake, I am not a pushover and I will not simply walk away and let it go. That is what she is hoping for, but I have a responsibility to myself and others. I would also add panic to my situation. Lots of panic, which shifted from panic about her well being to panic about my bills and money.

As time goes by, my anger and disappointment only builds. And my focus only increases. I know she is hoping I will just get tired and give up. I think she is used to others giving up in this situation.

Again, if there wasn't a large sum of money involved and a new house too, I would have not tried longer than a week or two for contact with her.

I know it sounds arrogant, and I don't mean it to be, but it is surprising to me that she is able to live daily just fine without contacting me. We spoke every day for several years. That part was very hard for me at first. What helped me was pushing myself to meet new people when I went there.

Sadly I lost some friends who refuse to speak to me because of the lies she told them.

Feelings lose value and priority over time in door slams. Facts facts fact. Reality comes first.
 

PeaceBaby

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The responses of those receiving the door-slam are understandable, because the door-slam / silent treatment / ostracism HURTS.

"Ostracism or exclusion may not leave external scars, but it can cause pain that often is deeper and lasts longer than a physical injury, according to a Purdue University expert. ... When a person is ostracized, the brain's dorsal anterior cingulate cortex, which registers physical pain, also feels this social injury, Williams said. The process of ostracism includes three stages: the initial acts of being ignored or excluded, coping and resignation."

Continue reading:

Pain of Ostracism Can Be Deep, Long-Lasting

Ostracism: The Kiss of Social Death

I appreciate the INFJ's here to try to explain, and I empathize with their perspectives, as I have already posted.

Yet I include these links to help explain why the recipients of a door-slam can be so emotionally intense about it, and to help the non-INFJ's deal with that pain. It takes time.
 

Halla74

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^^^^^^^^
I've gotta say that the way Mane worded this reminded me of what really bothers me about doorslamming.

To each their own...

I understand that cutting off contact may be a natural and valid choice if you're an INFJ. And that for the doorslamming INFJ it always seems like there is a valid reason.

(1) INFJs are not the only (MBTI) type(s) of people that "doorslam" others.

(2) Your objections to other people using the "doorslam" tactic are limited to your own personal experience, and do not/cannot possibly be unilaterally applied to any other person.

(3) There are two sides to every story. "Doorslamming" toxic, abusive and hostile people is a tactic that has merit. Not wanting to deal with toxic fucktards is vlaid reason enough for anyone to drop a doorslam if they deem necessary. Yes, there are other ways to handle such situations, but doorslamming is alot more civil than other ways to deal with fucktards.

But doorslamming still seems so unilateral.

So what?

If some total jerkoff is harassing you, do you feel that it is necessary for you and such said fucktard to have a "commonly agreed upon, mutual understanding" that you don't want to have any further contact with them?

I doubt it.

It's inherently selfish.

This is an overly broad statement that is baseless and without merit.
It's your opinion, and that's fine, but your opinion doesn't bind the rest of humanity.

And frankly, it oftentimes seems shortsighted.

Well, if you wish to have longstanding relations with obnoxious and terribly difficult people, then you can deal with them however you wish.
What long-term strategy do you feel is an appropriate means of dealing with hostile idiots?

Maybe it's a P/J thing. But the idea of permanently cutting off one's options with another person (which is what doorslamming is all about) just feels offensive to me.

It's not a P/J thing.
There are some people in this world that are sick and dimwitted.
They do not understand the concept of an ultimatum.
You can tell them a hundred times to never speak to you again, and the next day they will continue to bother you.
Rather than going fully tatical and reading them the riot act, pressing charges, or beating them senseless, doorslamming can be the most civil of all potential options.
Again, if you don't care to utilize such a tactic, so be it. Wonderful! Do you as see fit.
But don't try to drop an imaginary bag of guilt on others for not sharing the same opinion as you.
THAT is short-sighted AND unilateral.

Why is there an assumption that it is always worthwhile to keep your options open with other people? I completely don't get that.

I agree.

Realising that some people are not worth (to me) having in my life has been a good thing for me. These people are a waste of space in my life and I am better off without them taking up that room.

Exactly. Once someone proves to be a vampiristic piece of human sewage I have no further need to associate with them.

Ask someone like Halla74. He's an ESTP and he's told me several times on this forum to divest myself of human deadweight in my life!

It works well, doesn't it? :hifive:

Here's a question: do you think it's right to force a person to stay in a relationship (whatever its nature) that they no longer want to be in and that they may have put considerable effort into already - only to have things damaged beyond repair, or to receive confirmation that you and the other person will never agree on the parameters of the relationship?

No I do not. I think either party should be free to go their own way at any time. It's a friendship, not slavery.

Some people are users, emotional vampires, individuals who will never be satisfied until their unreasonable and violating demands are satisfied, people who assume that you will be happy with whatever spin THEY choose to put on the relationship...etc.

Exactly. Baby sociopaths, control freaks, and fucktards in general.

I've read nothing in this thread that has convinced me that keeping such people around indefinitely, and listening to their arguments indefinitely, is the right thing to do.

Absolutely, agreed 100%.

:solidarity:

-Alex
 

Fidelia

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I think this is partially a J vs P difference. As has been said before, there is some relief in closure, particular when it is a relationship that saps a tremendous amount of emotional energy to no seeming purpose over a long period of time.

Interestingly, I think that P types find it easier than I do to deal with unresolved stuff between them and another person if the answers truly are unavailable and they've come to terms with the fact that they won't get the answers they want. For me, I can get over something if I have some way of understanding what actually happened and can feel like I can close the chapter on it. In the absence of that, it takes me a lot longer to process the many possibilities of what went wrong (I think that's a Ni thing) and I also feel compelled to pick the most likely reason for their behaviour. I'd prefer that my guess be accurate and backed up by first hand information. If it is not though, I need some way to arrive at a conclusion and so substitute in what I think makes the most sense. In that way, I can let it go a lot better.

So I do really understand the longing for answers and continued dialogue. I would like to answer YWIR and clarify that at least in my case, I don't use lack of contact for manipulative purposes or to try to prompt a particular response in the other person. By the time I am ready to do that, I either was not at all emotionally invested at first, or else I have invested so much and exhausted all possibilities that I can think of for improving the relationship that I no longer have any interest in continuing. By that time, it just doesn't matter anymore or I have lost hope completely.
 
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