• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

[INFJ] When an INFJ doorslams you / cuts you out of their life / breaks off contact

SilkRoad

Lay the coin on my tongue
Joined
May 26, 2009
Messages
3,932
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
6w5
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
So you do have an omniscient perspective we're not aware of.
 
S

Society

Guest
So you do have an omniscient perspective we're not aware of.
again, if you want to represent your side with a little dignity and treat INFJs who have doorslammed people as indeviduals you might want to avoid the word "we"... there are INFJs who are capable of rational thinking and do not view it as an omniscient perspective.
 

SilkRoad

Lay the coin on my tongue
Joined
May 26, 2009
Messages
3,932
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
6w5
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
again, if you want to represent your side with a little dignity and treat INFJs who have doorslammed people as indeviduals you might want to avoid the word "we"... there are INFJs who are capable of rational thinking and do not view it as an omniscient perspective.

Ok. I am saying, from my personal perspective, that you are acting as though you can read minds and can discern the ins and outs of dozens/hundreds/thousands of individual situations that you know nothing about.

Also, if you wanted to treat us with respect and as individuals, you might have wanted to avoid (in your initial lengthy post in this thread) informing "you INFJs" en masse that this is "our ugliest fucking side." Little bit of a blanket statement, don't you think?
 
S

Society

Guest
Ok. I am saying, from my personal perspective, that you are acting as though you can read minds and can discern the ins and outs of dozens/hundreds/thousands of individual situations that you know nothing about.

i am "acting as though" i understand that by doorslamming someone you are limiting a critical source of information about your decision and causeses for doorslamming from accessing your mind - the other person's side. the reason i can know your doing so is because it's intrisitct to the action itself. like i said, if your not doing that - if your not blocking off communication from them, i don't even consider that a doorslam.

and your right about that - that wasn't my best choice of words.
 

SilkRoad

Lay the coin on my tongue
Joined
May 26, 2009
Messages
3,932
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
6w5
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
i am "acting as though" i understand that by doorslamming someone you are limiting a critical source of information about your decision and causeses for doorslamming from accessing your mind - the other person's side. the reason i can know your doing so is because it's intrisitct to the action itself. like i said, if your not doing that - if your not blocking off communication from them, i don't even consider that a doorslam.

and your right about that - that wasn't my best choice of words.


And it seems you feel that limiting your intake of information is always bad? Now we may be getting somewhere. I think this is something that you are going to find INFJs frequently/usually disagree with you on.

Yeah, I could see that as P vs J (in part), actually.
 
S

Society

Guest
And it seems you feel that limiting your intake of information is always bad? Now we may be getting somewhere. I think this is something that you are going to find INFJs frequently/usually disagree with you on.

you can never actually know if it's bad to not know it or not until you have the information.

let's say i'm trialing someone for assault, and i think that shows me the person is violent and should be locked away, and i might have thought very hard about that, but there's evidance that the person they assualted was actually holding a gun against their family and demanding their wallet, but as far as i know at the time the extra bit of information might be anything, it might be that the assault took place in a candy store, which would be ireleavent. do i stick firm to my decision based on the information i already had, or do i give leeway to the new information so i might be able to reeveluate my choices better? when is stubborness in the face of potential new information ever a good idea?

when is doing all of these:
3monkeys450.jpg

a reasonable course of action?
 

SilkRoad

Lay the coin on my tongue
Joined
May 26, 2009
Messages
3,932
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
6w5
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Yes. I take your illustration on board, I think.

However, allowing new evidence doesn't normally go on forever, does it? There comes a time when a decision has to be made...

What I am saying is that I (as an INFJ - a bit different for different types, no doubt) cannot take in new information indefinitely, especially if doing so is placing me in a position which is consistently exhausting, demoralizing, draining, potentially dangerous...etc. Eventually there will be a cutoff point.
 

BalanceFind

New member
Joined
Nov 9, 2011
Messages
144
One of the biggest problems with door slamming, is that it very easily leads to miscommunication. Time goes by and then both sides have to guess and make assumptions, many of which are false or incorrect. All of this leads to problems and the spreading of misinformation.

The erros of fact my infj has made after the fact due to self isolation is pretty staggering. The more time that goes by and less check ins the more the errors of fact and miscommunication, self absorption, and believing the worst.
 

cascadeco

New member
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
9,083
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
9w1
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Esoteric brought this up, but to expect an IxxJ to continuously 'float' without requiring and working towards closure is the same as expecting an ExxP to reach definitive decision points/closure as a lifestyle. The two will always have inherently different approaches: it's what makes them vastly different. For myself, I don't 'expect' ExxP's to become like me.. it's just not fair to them and also would take away what makes them THEM. I also would only be with an ExxP if they were ok with how my primary preferences were: and I with them. The success between the two will only occur if both are in the end not trying to morph the other into someone they are not.
 
S

Society

Guest
Yes. I take your illustration on board, I think.

However, allowing new evidence doesn't normally go on forever, does it?
...actually yes it does, cases can be reopened with new evidance and brought back to courts...
(not to go offtopic but that's the main argument against the death panelty - difficult to revoke it).
what's different from country to country it can be done passively (allowing new information to be brought forth) or actively (reopening cases every several years to examine them)...

there's a reason that those systems are in place - a public decision making system has to acknowlege its own humility and capacity to make mistakes and is under a lot of social pressure to prove that its decisions are fair, or it risks public scandals in which the new information is given to the press instead and the system can loose it's legitimacy in the public eye.

you are under little to no such pressure for humility and fairness in your decision making, only the golden rule and curtesy.

edit: a.k.a. what [MENTION=14749]BalanceFind[/MENTION] said.
 

iwakar

crush the fences
Joined
May 2, 2007
Messages
4,877
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
This just seems like a very elaborate version of:

A: I'm not interested in what you have to say any more.
B: But I really, really want you to be.
A: Noted, but I'm not.
B: Okay, but I really, really, really think you should be.

I'm sure most IxxJs would find this futile, particularly were it preceded by a whole lot of riffraff, not just INFJs. I know mature ExxPs in real life (some from this forum) that would agree. They're not present in this discussion, but I am fortunate enough to have their friendship and they don't assume their judgment would serve me better on how to lead my life. A couple are wise enough to be unsure if their own judgment always serves their own lives. I admire these two particularly for their honesty and humility.
 
S

Society

Guest
more importantly:
What I am saying is that I (as an INFJ - a bit different for different types, no doubt) cannot take in new information indefinitely, especially if doing so is placing me in a position which is consistently exhausting, demoralizing, draining, potentially dangerous...etc. Eventually there will be a cutoff point.

isnt the reason that its demoralizing because reconsidering the other side's point of view puts you in a position of self-doubt and can potentially make you feel bad and force you to be critical of yourself and your own choices?

and given that (as [MENTION=9602]YWIR[/MENTION] explained better then me), embracing the act of doorslamming as a potential solution is putting your loved ones on eggshells in a position which is demoralizing, draining and exhausting - whether you doorslammed them already or not - shouldn't the golden rule play a role here? seems to me your complaining about having to share the position your putting your peers in.
 

SilkRoad

Lay the coin on my tongue
Joined
May 26, 2009
Messages
3,932
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
6w5
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
more importantly:


isnt the reason that its demoralizing because reconsidering the other side's point of view puts you in a position of self-doubt and can potentially make you feel bad and force you to be critical of yourself and your own choices?

and given that as [MENTION=9602]YWIR[/MENTION] explained better then me), embracing the act of doorslamming as a potential solution is putting your loved ones on eggshells in a position which is demoralizing, draining and exhausting - whether you doorslammed them already or not - shouldn't the golden rule play a role here? seems to me your complaining about having to share the position your putting your peers in.

Not necessarily. As I think [MENTION=4806]violaine[/MENTION] said, I don't make anyone walk on eggshells and I think the only time I have been accused of it is by an emotional vampire who I had to shut out for self-preservation.

It can be demoralizing to go over the same thing over and over again, to feel constantly sucked dry, to be accused of things you genuinely haven't done, to hear the person tell you how special you are and then watch them go off again with the friends who they run down when speaking with you...etc. It is also notable when you undergo these sorts of experiences with a tiny number of people in your life - ie. constant conflict - and with everyone else you undergo nothing even remotely close to this.

See, I just feel that you are assuming here that INFJs always doorslam people whose claims on them are legitimate and whose behaviour to them is proper. This tends NOT to be the case. What if someone is making totally unreasonable demands and treating you in a totally unacceptable way?

I've been dealing with someone who either has borderline personality disorder or who certainly meets a lot of the criteria. There is broad agreement among mutual friends who know her that she is at best an extremely slow developer, and at worst mentally ill. If I were to meet her demands, she would be a) constantly physically clinging to me, b) following me wherever I go, c) taking out every inch of her frustration and unhappiness on me, d) expecting me to be always available at a moment's notice for free therapy, e) expecting me to place her above all of my friends...etc.

There is a wide consensus among those who know both of us that I have already flexed too far with her (if anything) and am well within my rights to back off. I have done this to a certain extent and am currently meditating what to do beyond this. It is a complex situation and I may need to shut her out entirely to let her know that the "friendship" cannot continue. I have tried so hard with this girl and very little has worked. The best thing I have done for her is push her to seek professional help.

If she had her way I would flex for her indefinitely. She will always come back and tell me that she didn't mean to hurt or drain me, but it happened because of xyz. This has happened repeatedly for two years. So, do I keep listening to her indefinitely, or do I start to spend more time looking after myself?

I really don't get why you seem to assume that ALL doorslams are because INFJs somehow "don't want to hear the truth about themselves" (ie. your take on why it could be demoralizing.) Do you really think there are no occasions where the INFJ has analyzed themselves, the other person and the situation in-depth, and has realised that the other person is treating them badly and it can't go on?
 

Starry

Active member
Joined
May 22, 2010
Messages
6,103
and given that (as YWIR explained better then me), embracing the act of doorslamming as a potential solution is putting your loved ones on eggshells in a position which is demoralizing, draining and exhausting - whether you doorslammed them already or not - shouldn't the golden rule play a role here? seems to me your complaining about having to share the position your putting your peers in.

At the same time though...I don't think YWIR was advocating 'try to stop all INFJs from ever doorslamming again by showing them the error of their ways'. She can come and correct me if I'm wrong...but I think she even stated a few pages back...'no sensable person would put up with this behavior'. Like in a 'move on - don't waste your time' kind of way.
 

SilkRoad

Lay the coin on my tongue
Joined
May 26, 2009
Messages
3,932
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
6w5
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Esoteric brought this up, but to expect an IxxJ to continuously 'float' without requiring and working towards closure is the same as expecting an ExxP to reach definitive decision points/closure as a lifestyle. The two will always have inherently different approaches: it's what makes them vastly different. For myself, I don't 'expect' ExxP's to become like me.. it's just not fair to them and also would take away what makes them THEM. I also would only be with an ExxP if they were ok with how my primary preferences were: and I with them. The success between the two will only occur if both are in the end not trying to morph the other into someone they are not.

Yeah...all of this. Closure is eventually needed. And constantly taking in more and more information - especially when it seems like beating a dead horse- is nothing like "closure."
 
S

Society

Guest
See, I just feel that you are assuming here that INFJs always doorslam people whose claims on them are legitimate and whose behaviour to them is proper.
no, i am simply saying that by the very nature of the doorslam, you are avoiding critical information about whether the claims on you are legitimate.

and as for your case, i just have to say; seriously? you have to doorslam her because you can't say "no i'm with other friends" or "no i'm busy" or "no i want to be alone for awhile"? your assertive enough to doorslam but not to do all of those?
 
S

Society

Guest
Yeah...all of this. Closure is eventually needed. And constantly taking in more and more information - especially when it seems like beating a dead horse- is nothing like "closure."

but the very act doesn't give the other person any closure - you say your last word and don't allow it to be answered - that's the very nature of the doorslam. its one sided unilteral closure.

At the same time though...I don't think YWIR was advocating 'try to stop all INFJs from ever doorslamming again by showing them the error of their ways'. She can come and correct me if I'm wrong...but I think she even stated a few pages back...'no sensable person would put up with this behavior'. Like in a 'move on - don't waste your time' kind of way.

huh? read the two other posts where she expanded on it....
 

SilkRoad

Lay the coin on my tongue
Joined
May 26, 2009
Messages
3,932
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
6w5
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
no, i am simply saying that by the very nature of the doorslam, you are avoiding critical information about whether the claims on you are legitimate.

and as for your case, i just have to say; seriously? you have to doorslam her because you can't say "no i'm with other friends" or "no i'm busy" or "no i want to be alone for awhile"? your assertive enough to doorslam but not to do all of those?

Have you dealt with anyone with BPD? What do you do with someone who follows you down the street even when you turn around and scream "leave me alone" at them? This has happened.

Why do you assume I haven't already tried "no I'm busy", etc? I have...ad nauseam. This is part of my point. Doorslams are a LAST RESORT. When someone intrudes themselves into your life even when you scream "leave me alone" and "stop violating my boundaries" at them, doorslams start to seem like a real possibility.

You don't read people's posts properly. What did you think "I've tried so hard with this girl" meant? It meant I have tried to be a good friend to her while at the same time establishing boundaries. And with some people this proves impossible.
 
Top