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  1. #961

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    @Eilonwy, I wanted to tell you how much I respect what you wrote here. (I mean your entire post, though it was too long to quote in my reply.) Not only do I think you were correct in your assessments, but also your post reminds me of why I like INFJs so much. They can be amazingly perceptive creatures which you have illustrated here.

    Another reason I so much respect what you wrote is that you very frankly shared your thought processes both when you first read @Mane's posts and then when you reread them. I think you are demonstrating an INFJ at his/her best. And, you were very forthcoming about INFJs' blind spots.
    I did also share my thought processes frankly here but they keep getting ignored for favourable views...

    @Esoteric Wench, you somehow felt a need to step in in Eilowyn's defense in her stead...I think conciously or subconciously you are trying to reward/reinforce what you see/perceive as good/favourable INFJ behaviour...It feels manipulative to me, like trying to form some kind of alliance rather than discussing the issue at hand...You are also preventing her (?) from stepping up to explain her point of view herself...I would rather have her do that cause the burden of proof rests with her...

    It has been my experience that INFJs go awry when they let their Ni run free without having the check and balance of Fe and/or Ti stepping in. Said another way, Ni by it's very nature is a framework for thinking about the world. And it is riddled with personal biases. (Now I don't mean to use the term "bias" here as a pejorative. I just mean that Ni is at it's very heart a way of looking at things... a perspective if you will.) Now when Ni runs amuck, it does not allow outside input so that the INFJ can do a reality check to see if the Ni perspective about which they so strongly feel is grounded in reality. INFJs are at their best when they periodically use their Fe and Ti to make sure that their Ni assumptions/perspectives are still correct (and if they aren't they should then change their Ni assumptions to fit the new reality). INFJs who do not do this Fe/Ti reality check periodically can become opinionated, snobbish, and overly rigid in their thinking. They also can doorslam people as a method of dismissing outside input.
    Yes, what you call biases are symbolic patterns that Ni-Ti have deduced out of personal experiences of the INFJ over the course of his/her life...Unchecked, it runs the risk of making the INFJ paranoid...However, INFJs do not doorslam people to dismiss outside input, they doorslam people cause the said people are unbearable to them...Being deprived of further input from the said people is not the cause of the doorslam but the resultant effect...Tolerating unpleasant stimuli may in the end make any person more tolerant/resistant to that stimuli (personal growth)...It's like being tempered with fire but only when in moderate doses...If the fire is too strong/hot, you get burned, destroying the base material...Thru this analogy, when an INFJ doorslams someone, it means the fire became too hot for them to handle anymore, i.e. it began burning/destroying them rather than tempering them...The suggestion that they should bear with the fire longer or that the fire is not as hot as the INFJs think/feel to be, I think, should not come from the bearer of the fire (conflict of interest) but some outside source who can objectively gauge the temperature for what it really is...

    Anyway, it seems to me that oftentimes (but not always), when an INFJ doorslams, he/she is cutting off external threats to their Ni framework of understanding. In such cases, they are using their Ni to shut themselves from from taking on and absorbing new perspectives. INFJs need to focus on using their judgment not to dismiss ideas/people, but rather to critically refine their Ni understanding of the world.

    So INFJs need to take extra care to listen to someone's idea entirely before passing judgment on it. They need to ask questions as necessary. They need to do whatever it takes to make sure that they understand the other person's ideas. And finally, they should try not to begin judging anything about a new/different idea until they have understood it entirely.

    When INFJs doorslam for the above said reasons, it can be very hurtful to non-INFJs. Additionally, I think it is especially hurtful to ENTPs and ENFPs who have such a very different outlook (Ne) on the world that doorslamming someone seems almost inconceivable.
    It seems to me that INFJs are expected to do all the hard work...What should non-INFJs do to ease this process?

    Once again, let me say, way to go Eilonwy!
    I think you are hindering the discussion by playing favorites...

  2. #962
    Vulnerability Eilonwy's Avatar
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    @yeghor, first, I'm sorry that you interpreted a picture of The Dude from the movie "The Big Lebowski" that I posted to Mane's attention, as ganging up on you. I posted something light and funny (Duuuuude!) for several reasons, but the main one was to try to soften the blow of Mane's post because, from my own INFJ pov, the sarcasm can come across as brutal, as it can from a lot of NTs.

    However, with a little effort, I can also see the humor in his post. And with a little more effort, I can see that, despite the sarcasm, he has some points worth taking into consideration.

    Let me give you a little more background before I get to what I see in Mane's latest post. Part of what started me off on this particular exploration was that I was told by a few people here that the way I responded to a particular post, posted to me, was with a big wall of "NO". It was my natural way of responding and I didn't even consider that it was coming across as anything other than an explanation. I felt hurt and frustrated, but realized that there was obviously a communication problem that I had a part in, so I tried to figure it out, rather than just blame the other person for taking my response in a way I hadn't intended. (Believe me, I wanted to just lay some blame and walk away from it, but I didn't.)

    I'm not going to go into all the details, but part of what I figured out is that, if I have a hard time tailoring my responses to suit other people who read them through a different filter than I do, then that can certainly work both ways. And if I ask for those people to try and be understanding and look past the "no" that they're hearing to see what I'm actually saying, then I should have the same consideration for them in return. I need to look past whatever it is that I'm hearing, and try to see what is actually being said. And I find that very hard to do at times--to look past what I'm hearing, or what a post makes me feel. If it's hard for me, even knowing that this issue exists, then I have to assume that it's hard from the other person's pov, also, and I have to give them a lot of credit when they treat me with patience instead of reacting to me with frustration. And, since none of us are perfect, this process is going to break down at times.

    So, back to what I see in Mane's post (which may not be what he intended, so he's free to correct me). To start, you, yeghor, have some responsibility in the exchange. In your very first post at this forum, you call Mane out and proceed to tell him that, from you pov, he's misinterpreted his own situation--he doesn't know his or his wife's type, and he's misinterpreted his experiences with INFJs in general. You may not have intended to, but you also insult him in several ways--at least if your post had been directed at me, I would have been insulted.

    You even say this:
    Too many details are not necessary; just sum it up without contaminating it with personal interpretation.
    which is ironic because your post to him, though you think it's logical and rational, is contaminated with just as much personal interpretation as you see in his posts in this thread. It can't be helped because that's what we ALL do. That's what having a point of view is all about--personal interpretation.

    So, you've put out your own version of my big wall of "no". Whether you think so or not, whether you intended it or not, that wall is there. And I'll reiterate, every single person on the planet is putting out their own version of the wall of "no", so I'm not trying to single you out. I'm not exempt from it myself.

    Finally, here's what I hear from Mane:
    1) He's refuting your claim that he isn't an ENTP by giving you a big dose of ENTP sarcasm. "Dude" and "Far out" are not his normal posting style unless he's being sarcastic.

    2) He's talking about Se creds and Fi internal emotional awareness to indicate that he's referring to your story about doorslamming your ESFP co-worker from your third post.

    3) He proceeds to make some points about how your story looks from his pov.

    4) He asks if you can see past his sarcasm and his own wall of "no" and consider the points he's made, even though those points might hurt your feelings.

    5) He assumes you can't or won't and and writes you off in frustration.

    I could very well choose to be insulted by his post, too. He mentions the INFJs here, and I fall into that group. I've had a few encounters with him since this thread where I pissed him off because I still didn't get what he was saying. I'll probably piss him off and cause him frustration at times in the future, too, because I'm not perfect. But, so far, he's been able to see that I'm trying and he's stayed open to hearing what I have to say. All he's been asking is for the same in return, so I've been trying to do that. It might be hard to look past the sarcasm and NT communication style at times, but it's probably just as hard for him to look past my wall of "no" and NF communication style, too. You don't have to like the points he made (I wouldn't if they were about me), and you don't have to agree with the points he made, all you're being asked to do is to see those points and consider them. Truly consider them without dismissing them out of hand or running away.

    I want to respond to your earlier post to me, but it's the Christmas holiday and I'm going to be very busy for the next few days, so I'll get to it when I can. I know you're taking a beating in this thread and that it can't be pleasant for you, but if you can somehow fight past it, I think you'll gain a lot of respect from everyone here.
    Johari / Nohari

    “That we are capable only of being what we are remains our unforgivable sin.” ― Gene Wolfe

    reminder to self: "That YOU that you are so proud of is a story woven together by your interpreter module to account for as much of your behavior as it can incorporate, and it denies or rationalizes the rest." "Who's in Charge? Free Will and the Science of the Brain" by Michael S. Gazzaniga

  3. #963

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    @Eilonwy

    @yeghor, first, I'm sorry that you interpreted a picture of The Dude from the movie "The Big Lebowski" that I posted to Mane's attention, as ganging up on you. I posted something light and funny (Duuuuude!) for several reasons, but the main one was to try to soften the blow of Mane's post because, from my own INFJ pov, the sarcasm can come across as brutal, as it can from a lot of NTs.
    You are sorry for "my" misinterpretation but not for "your" posting the "Dude"...Captions would be nice to convey what you actually meant with the Dude photo...in terms of clarity that you preach (subtle Fi attack here)...

    However, with a little effort, I can also see the humor in his post. And with a little more effort, I can see that, despite the sarcasm, he has some points worth taking into consideration.
    I think you are trying too hard to see that you are seeing that what's not there...empathic to a fault...

    I'm not going to go into all the details, but part of what I figured out is that, if I have a hard time tailoring my responses to suit other people who read them through a different filter than I do, then that can certainly work both ways. And if I ask for those people to try and be understanding and look past the "no" that they're hearing to see what I'm actually saying, then I should have the same consideration for them in return. I need to look past whatever it is that I'm hearing, and try to see what is actually being said. And I find that very hard to do at times--to look past what I'm hearing, or what a post makes me feel. If it's hard for me, even knowing that this issue exists, then I have to assume that it's hard from the other person's pov, also, and I have to give them a lot of credit when they treat me with patience instead of reacting to me with frustration. And, since none of us are perfect, this process is going to break down at times.
    ^This makes me even more suspicious that you are an actually an INFP...

    So, back to what I see in Mane's post (which may not be what he intended, so he's free to correct me). To start, you, yeghor, have some responsibility in the exchange. In your very first post at this forum, you call Mane out and proceed to tell him that, from you pov, he's misinterpreted his own situation--he doesn't know his or his wife's type, and he's misinterpreted his experiences with INFJs in general. You may not have intended to, but you also insult him in several ways--at least if your post had been directed at me, I would have been insulted.
    What I was actually trying to convey was that he had not presented his case well enough to demonstrate that his assumptions and interpretations were sound...He wants us to swallow a bitter pill but does not want to explain or prove how he concluded that the pill is actually good for us...and constantly deflects requests for him to do so...and it is being misinterpreted as INFJs' dismissing input/stubbornness/not hearing people out etc. ...(though in his last message he says that he does not care if we swallow the pill or not so I am not sure what he wants anymore...)

    You even say this:
    Too many details are not necessary; just sum it up without contaminating it with personal interpretation.
    which is ironic because your post to him, though you think it's logical and rational, is contaminated with just as much personal interpretation as you see in his posts in this thread. It can't be helped because that's what we ALL do. That's what having a point of view is all about--personal interpretation.
    What I was trying to say was that he had not given enough Se material but instead too much Fi material while presenting his case, which I tend to dismiss cause it's subjective data and my Ti cannot see but just presume the facts underneath it...You are by the way responding to his Fi material, guess why...

    So, you've put out your own version of my big wall of "no". Whether you think so or not, whether you intended it or not, that wall is there. And I'll reiterate, every single person on the planet is putting out their own version of the wall of "no", so I'm not trying to single you out. I'm not exempt from it myself.
    All he had to do was to refute, thru logic, the points I made...like an ENTP would (thru insults/sarcasm nonetheless perhaps).

    Finally, here's what I hear from Mane:
    1) He's refuting your claim that he isn't an ENTP by giving you a big dose of ENTP sarcasm. "Dude" and "Far out" are not his normal posting style unless he's being sarcastic.

    2) He's talking about Se creds and Fi internal emotional awareness to indicate that he's referring to your story about doorslamming your ESFP co-worker from your third post.

    3) He proceeds to make some points about how your story looks from his pov.

    4) He asks if you can see past his sarcasm and his own wall of "no" and consider the points he's made, even though those points might hurt your feelings.

    5) He assumes you can't or won't and and writes you off in frustration.
    Actually I did consider his points...I found the case he put forward as incorrect...What he put forward in his post was actually a self-fulfilling prophecy...He infact only responded to a fraction of what I had written...Who's not hearing out who here I wonder?

    All he's been asking is for the same in return, so I've been trying to do that. It might be hard to look past the sarcasm and NT communication style at times, but it's probably just as hard for him to look past my wall of "no" and NF communication style, too. You don't have to like the points he made (I wouldn't if they were about me), and you don't have to agree with the points he made, all you're being asked to do is to see those points and consider them. Truly consider them without dismissing them out of hand or running away.
    I did already...

    I want to respond to your earlier post to me, but it's the Christmas holiday and I'm going to be very busy for the next few days, so I'll get to it when I can. I know you're taking a beating in this thread and that it can't be pleasant for you, but if you can somehow fight past it, I think you'll gain a lot of respect from everyone here.
    You are misinterpreting/misrepresenting that I am taking a beating here...You are also misinterpreting/misrepresenting that I am not respected or not yet deserving respect...It is clear to me that I am yet to earn your respect (or that you disrespect me already)...What I understand is that you are making Fi-dom judgments on me...happened to me before...

    Merry Christmas to all by the way...

  4. #964
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eilonwy View Post
    3) He proceeds to make some points about how your story looks from his pov.
    actually no - not my point of view. his co workers, that's exactly it. for that matter, i don't think i ever associated strange with inherently negative myself and i am pretty sure i haven't used the sentiment of weirdo non sarcastically in my life, except perhaps for playing into it for fun when being called one. on that matter my PoV could a lot more easily have identified with @yeghor in defense of all weirdo-bashing, if my empathy was limited to nothing more but who i identify more.

    but somehow, using my magic superpowers (gained by eating stir fried Fi pixies btw every morning - if anyone was wondering - the secret is garlic-salt & cajun and you know, being born to a social species adapted at cooperation & empathy & mammoth killing), i was able to use what little information i had to formulate a rudimentary mental model of his coworkers point of view, and see yeghor from that point of view.
    i am sure that actually being there and known the guy in person, yeghor should have a lot more information that [even without fried pixies] by any standards of resourcefulness he should have a much easier time doing so - a much easier time doing what i just did. ...and yet, he can't. even time isn't a factor here - with his coworker its a matter of a few weeks but with his childhood friend we are talking about nearly a decade to do it. so we're talking about all the time and resources to do it, and still, nothing. nada. complete and utter mental silence. beep beep...
    .
    its dead jim.


    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    All he had to do was to refute, thru logic, the points I made...like an ENTP would (thru insults/sarcasm nonetheless perhaps).
    ...read again.


    Quote Originally Posted by Eilonwy View Post
    @yeghor, first, I'm sorry that you interpreted a picture of The Dude from the movie "The Big Lebowski" that I posted to Mane's attention, as ganging up on you. I posted something light and funny (Duuuuude!) for several reasons, but the main one was to try to soften the blow of Mane's post because, from my own INFJ pov, the sarcasm can come across as brutal, as it can from a lot of NTs.
    i was sort of hoping there was a jew joke in there somewhere.

    which reminds me: marry christmas goy's.

  5. #965

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    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    @Eilonwy



    You are sorry for "my" misinterpretation but not for "your" posting the "Dude"...Captions would be nice to convey what you actually meant with the Dude photo...in terms of clarity that you preach (subtle Fi attack here)...



    I think you are trying too hard to see that you are seeing that what's not there...empathic to a fault...



    ^This makes me even more suspicious that you are an actually an INFP...



    What I was actually trying to convey was that he had not presented his case well enough to demonstrate that his assumptions and interpretations were sound...He wants us to swallow a bitter pill but does not want to explain or prove how he concluded that the pill is actually good for us...and constantly deflects requests for him to do so...and it is being misinterpreted as INFJs' dismissing input/stubbornness/not hearing people out etc. ...(though in his last message he says that he does not care if we swallow the pill or not so I am not sure what he wants anymore...)



    What I was trying to say was that he had not given enough Se material but instead too much Fi material while presenting his case, which I tend to dismiss cause it's subjective data and my Ti cannot see but just presume the facts underneath it...You are by the way responding to his Fi material, guess why...



    All he had to do was to refute, thru logic, the points I made...like an ENTP would (thru insults/sarcasm nonetheless perhaps).



    Actually I did consider his points...I found the case he put forward as incorrect...What he put forward in his post was actually a self-fulfilling prophecy...He infact only responded to a fraction of what I had written...Who's not hearing out who here I wonder?



    I did already...



    You are misinterpreting/misrepresenting that I am taking a beating here...You are also misinterpreting/misrepresenting that I am not respected or not yet deserving respect...It is clear to me that I am yet to earn your respect (or that you disrespect me already)...What I understand is that you are making Fi-dom judgments on me...happened to me before...

    Merry Christmas to all by the way...
    Finally someone who can make sense of all these biased an mistyped people.
    To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, be nothing.
    ~ Elbert Hubbard

    Music provides one of the clearest examples of a much deeper relation between mathematics and human experience.

  6. #966
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    @Eilonwy: loved your posts. And I feel like (at the very least) you're getting an education on what it's like for an INFP to try to refute an INFJ. I'll keep watching to see where it goes.

    P.S. Je is ALWAYS RIGHT.

    @yeghor: Hi there new person. Welcome to the forum. You've picked a difficult entry point in this thread to be sure. There is too much history here for you to fully appreciate the context of what you're getting yourself into. All I can do is tell you are pretty far off-base on the facts for much of what you believe to be true here. The irony of course is that you illustrate the theme of the thread quite well yourself, and you don't see that either.

    I do hope you stick around though. Many of us who have spent time on the forum have learned a lot about the interior of others and about the assumptions we all make about other people. It's too close to Christmas Day for me to share more than that, since we are busy getting ready here for Christmas, aside from wishing you a Happy Holiday season. Be well! Keep an open mind, eh?
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  7. #967

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    its dead jim.
    StarTrekTheOriginalSeriesHesDeadJim.gif

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0yXqU-w9U0

    I hated when McCoy said that...

    May God rest his soul...

  8. #968

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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    @Eilonwy: loved your posts. And I feel like (at the very least) you're getting an education on what it's like for an INFP to try to refute an INFJ. I'll keep watching to see where it goes.
    Rather than tending to her wounds, you should have let her wounds heal on their own...I see this tendency to form fellowships/alliances (taking sides) rather than discussing the issues...

    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    All I can do is tell you are pretty far off-base on the facts for much of what you believe to be true here. The irony of course is that you illustrate the theme of the thread quite well yourself, and you don't see that either.
    I am looking forward to hearing from you in that regard after the holiday season...ENTPs natural mode of communication is not necessarily sarcasm by the way...I know that for a fact...When people present new ideas or point out my mistakes for my sake rather than theirs, I very much welcome the gesture...even when coming from ENTPs...

    Cheers...

  9. #969
    can't handcuff the wind Doomsday McFeral's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    Yes, what you call biases are symbolic patterns that Ni-Ti have deduced out of personal experiences of the INFJ over the course of his/her life...Unchecked, it runs the risk of making the INFJ paranoid...However, INFJs do not doorslam people to dismiss outside input, they doorslam people cause the said people are unbearable to them...Being deprived of further input from the said people is not the cause of the doorslam but the resultant effect...Tolerating unpleasant stimuli may in the end make any person more tolerant/resistant to that stimuli (personal growth)...It's like being tempered with fire but only when in moderate doses...If the fire is too strong/hot, you get burned, destroying the base material...Thru this analogy, when an INFJ doorslams someone, it means the fire became too hot for them to handle anymore, i.e. it began burning/destroying them rather than tempering them...The suggestion that they should bear with the fire longer or that the fire is not as hot as the INFJs think/feel to be, I think, should not come from the bearer of the fire (conflict of interest) but some outside source who can objectively gauge the temperature for what it really is...
    This I absolutely agree with. It ceases to amaze me that no matter how many times this is explained, something else is ‘explained’ in return about the INFJ experience (by someone who isn’t INFJ). And it's sometimes got such a heinous and manipulative feel to it that I’d promised myself to stop reading this thread.

    It would be one thing if people showed up and earnestly wanted to understand what they were doing to drive INFJs away. That would be a productive dialogue. But the tendency (and it’s no coincidence) is to show up and explain what ‘goes wrong’ in the INFJs who can't bear interacting with them anymore. And they seem oblivious to how controlling it comes across.


    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Eilonwy View Post

    I'm not going to go into all the details, but part of what I figured out is that, if I have a hard time tailoring my responses to suit other people who read them through a different filter than I do, then that can certainly work both ways. And if I ask for those people to try and be understanding and look past the "no" that they're hearing to see what I'm actually saying, then I should have the same consideration for them in return. I need to look past whatever it is that I'm hearing, and try to see what is actually being said. And I find that very hard to do at times--to look past what I'm hearing, or what a post makes me feel. If it's hard for me, even knowing that this issue exists, then I have to assume that it's hard from the other person's pov, also, and I have to give them a lot of credit when they treat me with patience instead of reacting to me with frustration. And, since none of us are perfect, this process is going to break down at times.

    ^This makes me even more suspicious that you are an actually an INFP...

    This^ however, is just odd to me. There’s little doubt in my mind- inasmuch as mbti is a ‘definite’ thing, Eilonwy is ‘definitely’ an INFJ. I say this from extended experience of interacting with her. But the part I find odd is: even if she was INFP, why would that matter? Would that somehow change the meaning of what she’s saying? [It sounds like you’re insinuating that would be grounds for not giving her posts as much weight. I hope it’s obvious how that sounds offensive.]


    ***

    That being said, if typo c ever puts out a holiday album, I think some variation of Carol Of The Bells (with “door” and “slam” in place of “ding” and “dong”) should make the cut.


    /won't actually be able to respond until after holidays
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

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  10. #970

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    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    This^ however, is just odd to me. There’s little doubt in my mind- inasmuch as mbti is a ‘definite’ thing, Eilonwy is ‘definitely’ an INFJ. I say this from extended experience of interacting with her. But the part I find odd is: even if she was INFP, why would that matter? Would that somehow change the meaning of what she’s saying? [It sounds like you’re insinuating that would be grounds for not giving her posts as much weight. I hope it’s obvious how that sounds offensive.
    I can see how that may have sounded condescending...But I actually engaged her and replied to her posts i.e. I did take her thoughts into consideration but did not necessarily agree with them...that is not rejection but disagreement...

    It matters if she's an INFP not in the sense that her thoughts/ideas are unimportant but in the sense that that would explain why she is inclined to focus/engage on the emotional content of my messages rather than the material/logical content...as well as why I am inclined to dismiss the emotional content of her messages but focus on the logical content...I can see that that may be interpreted as invalidating her (or Mane's and others') perception of the issue...

    Quote Originally Posted by Eilonwy
    I need to look past whatever it is that I'm hearing, and try to see what is actually being said. And I find that very hard to do at times--to look past what I'm hearing, or what a post makes me feel. If it's hard for me, even knowing that this issue exists, then I have to assume that it's hard from the other person's pov, also, and I have to give them a lot of credit when they treat me with patience instead of reacting to me with frustration.
    ^I think she reacts to the emotional content of the messages (both mine and Mane's) first and may dismiss the message altogether based on the emotional impression that it gives her...That's what she was saying in her paragraph I quoted before, as far as I understand...That is to say she had in the past been using Fi to dismiss the message before going into its logical/material content...

    Her first message to me left the kind of impression on me that she was disapproving/dismissing me rather than the ideas/thoughts in my posts...She was rejecting my posts on an emotional level (i.e. based on the emotions my posts aroused in her) rather than a logical level...Her later posts reinforced my impression that that was the case indeed...

    So she and I are focusing on different layers of the issue and are somehow speaking different languages (she's giving me Fi reasoing and I am giving her Ti reasoning)...The problem in that is that she's speaking as an INFJ here on an INFJ-related issue (i.e. her ideas/thoughts are being attributed to INFJs) but her reasoning language/method feels foreign to me...there's some kind of discrepancy...and her actually being an INFP would clarify a lot of things in that sense...This may sound as ad-hominem but I am simply trying to inquire about her credibility in terms of her personal experiences as an INFJ rather than invalidating her altogether...In such a case, her personal experiences (as an INFJ) would have to bear "relatively" less weight specifically in this discussion...

    It would be as if an architect, believing himself/herself actually to be an engineer, giving lecture/advice to engineers in the vicinity on why they (the engineers) are technically wrong without giving due technical but personal justification...or vice versa...can you see how that may come off patronizing/condescending to engineers (notwithstanding the experience and expertise of the architect or that the architect's advice may indeed be valid)?

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