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  1. #921

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    i think it might be q Fe>Ti thing here, from Jung's description of Fe-doms (which is more ENFJ but may still hold to a lesser extent):


    questioning your past decisions is not a comfortable or emotionally convenient process - who enjoys being wrong? we all want to feel that we where right in everything that we do, we normally feel that we do, or otherwise we wouldn't have done it so, its only by being willing to think thoughts that contradict those feelings that we can process our mistakes and misdeeds, and its possibly the bigger the consequences and the more emotionally loaded the choice was, the harder it would be for an Fe>Ti to process thoughts that contradict those feelings.

    as apposed to Ti>Fe, where you pretty much grow to take for granted that your emotions about other people's perspectives and even your own aren't valid, because you will have thoughts contradicting them all the time. its a heart with a bucket of salt.

    Some infj's don't like details, and can be overwhelmed by messy, stressful, details. To that I say too bad. I don't like them either. I am an extroverted intuitive. I get it. But details matter, facts matter. In important business matters, they matter a lot. In personal matters, they matter too, just enough to get a clear gist of the situation.

    Sometimes focusing only or mostly on introverted intuition can be bad, especially when facts, details, assumptions, hunches are far from correct or accurate.

    Being an extrovert, and being a perceiver, I can visit and re-visit anything. Infj's generally speaking have weaker J than other J's.

    Instead of using extroverted judgement in haste as protective defense mechanism from overflow of emotions, details, and stress, more balance is needed for perspective. And even when that happens, it isn't the end of the world, calmly re-evaluate and re-approach. This requires a small risk of vulnerability. It isn't much to ask when stakes are high.

  2. #922
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    Sorry about pulling up a particularly unwieldy thread from a probably well-deserved death. But I saw it referenced elsewhere and wanted to put in my two cents.

    I think INFJ doorslams are ultimately healthy and reasonable. If I have a quibble with INFJs on this, it’s that INFJs tend to “Ni” their doorslams too much and feel unnecessarily guilty about them. Personally, I would have INFJs be more like the posters at the message boards at AskMen.com, where the standard response to a relationship problem tends to be “Dump the bitch.” Maybe then INFJs would get over it a bit and it wouldn’t be such a big deal.

    As for some Ti need for closure/explanation/debate (the reference here is to the posts by Mane and BalanceFind), it’s just that: It’s just a personal need of Ti-users. No one gets exactly what they want in life; get used to it.

    A bit more on the healthiness and reasonableness of INFJ doorslams:

    INFJs interact with the world via Fe, and Fe is ultimately about setting and enforcing boundaries for relationships as much as anything else. And if relationships get particularly burdensome, then the ultimate way of enforcing boundaries is to dump the relationship.

    To elucidate on this last point a touch (i.e., that Fe is about setting relationship boundaries): Rulebooks on networking are in vogue right now, what with the emphasis on social platforms in the media and teamwork in the workplace. The best of these books are written by Fe-Doms, and they are mostly about how to manage a large number of friends and acquaintances: For example, you assign your relationships to various categories (clients, professional associates, friends, acquaintances), set appropriate boundaries for each, schedule times to touch base with them, and generally “handle” people with an aim to maximum effectiveness.

    Some will argue that this treatment of relationships is manipulative. But the networkers themselves consider it a win for everyone. The networker helps the participants in his network connect with each other and profit by the network, and meanwhile the Fe rules and boundaries allow the skilled networker to manage an ever-larger network. See the book “Never Eat Alone” by Keith Ferrazzi for an excellent example of this kind of Fe treatment.

    And naturally anyone who violates the rules of the network immediately loses access to the network and the networker.

    To sum up: Fe is a judging function, and it is about boundaries. Dumping someone who abuses the rules (an INFJ doorslam) is part and parcel of a system of good personal boundaries.

    For a similar Te treatment of relationships, see the book “Shed Your Stuff, Change Your Life”, by Julie Morgenstern. The author argues that 80 percent of our daily clutter can be discarded, quickly freeing up big chunks of time and energy. She defines “clutter” as “...any obsolete object, space, commitment, or behavior that weighs you down, distracts you, or depletes your energy...” She doesn’t single out relationships, but they figure heavily in the parts about commitments as clutter.

    And she argues forcefully for moving quickly and aggressively to clear out the clutter. It’s all about getting your own life in order; it’s not about explaining yourself to others and begging their pardon. Don’t spend forever worrying about the opinions of others or trying to soften the blows.

    To sum up: Discarding a bad relationship is just good organization (good Te). Don’t make a big deal out it. When it comes high time, you just take out the trash and then slam the door on the way back in.

  3. #923
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    Quote Originally Posted by FineLine View Post
    I think INFJ doorslams are ultimately healthy and reasonable.
    That's a pretty blanketing statement. Would it not be more accurate to say that some doorslams are healthy and reasonable while others are not? INFJs are no different than anyone else. Sometimes they do things for the wrong reasons.... and this includes the doorslam.

    Quote Originally Posted by FineLine View Post
    Fe is ultimately about setting and enforcing boundaries... To sum up: Fe is a judging function, and it is about boundaries.
    While I like what you said about doorslamming being akin to cleaning up the clutter, I think what you said above is a stretch. Fe is about a lot of things, but I don't think it's correct to say that it's primarily about boundaries. As a judging function Fe (and Fi, Te, and Ti) is about making decisions. Those decisions may or may not have to do with setting relationship boundaries... though I fully admit that to an INFJ, it may feel this way. There are many types, however, like an ENFP for example, who does not feel a compelling need to organize their relationship clutter.

    I don't begrudge an INFJ's right to doorslam someone. However, I do think a lot of the concern expressed by some on this thread is that sometimes doorslamming has consequences for other people which the INFJ didn't anticipate or didn't take into account. And, perhaps if they did consider these consequences, they might pick an alternative route to achieve the same end. For example no one denies that cleaning up and discarding relationship deadwood is sometimes necessary. But there is more than one way to skin the cat.... in other words, it might be possible to clean up deadwood without a doorslam. Then everyone is happier and better for it.... right?
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  4. #924
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esoteric Wench View Post
    That's a pretty blanketing statement. Would it not be more accurate to say that some doorslams are healthy and reasonable while others are not? INFJs are no different than anyone else. Sometimes they do things for the wrong reasons.... and this includes the doorslam.
    I can’t comment on any one particular relationship or dumping. I’m just pointing out a generality. And originally the thread was about generalities of INFJ door-slamming, not one person’s relationship.

    People get dumped from relationships. There’s nothing abnormal about it.

    With respect to how INFJs do their dumping, I’m just pointing out a generality: Fe and Te are healthy, useful functions that concern themselves with closure, personal boundaries and organization. The dumping of bad or time-wasting relationships can fall under the purview of either function and can be considered healthy and useful as well.

    As Fe-users, INFJs are just doing what comes natural to them. Under the appropriate circumstances, door-slamming is a healthy, useful exercise.

    While I like what you said about doorslamming being akin to cleaning up the clutter, I think what you said above is a stretch. Fe is about a lot of things, but I don't think it's correct to say that it's primarily about boundaries. As a judging function Fe (and Fi, Te, and Ti) is about making decisions. Those decisions may or may not have to do with setting relationship boundaries... though I fully admit that to an INFJ, it may feel this way. There are many types, however, like an ENFP for example, who does not feel a compelling need to organize their relationship clutter.
    Off the top of my head, I wouild say that the judging functions are about closure. And in a post in another thread (“ENTPs + moral dilemmas”) I argue that even ENFPs could benefit from practicing more closure. See the following post: ENTP + moral dilemmas

    I don't begrudge an INFJ's right to doorslam someone. However, I do think a lot of the concern expressed by some on this thread is that sometimes doorslamming has consequences for other people which the INFJ didn't anticipate or didn't take into account. And, perhaps if they did consider these consequences, they might pick an alternative route to achieve the same end. For example no one denies that cleaning up and discarding relationship deadwood is sometimes necessary. But there is more than one way to skin the cat.... in other words, it might be possible to clean up deadwood without a doorslam. Then everyone is happier and better for it.... right?
    I'm just saying that INFJs are doing what's normal and healthy for their type. One can always make the argument that it's good for everyone to go against type occasionally rather than always do the stereotypical knee-jerk things that one's type does. For example, one can argue that INFPs should put aside their feelings and be more analytical occasionally; INTPs should put aside all that analysis stuff and learn to trust their feelings occasionally. And so on. I’ve made those arguments myself.

    Still, at the basic gut level, you have to allow for type. INFPs are going to feel, INTPs are going to analyze, and INFJs are going to do their Fe things. You just have to allow for it. It doesn’t do any good to try to argue that INFJ doorslams are somehow illegitimate just because they piss off non-Fe types.

    [Edit:] Frankly, as a non-Fe type myself (I'm INFP), I kind of admire Fe & Te users for their doorslams and organziation and quick closure. Myself, I tend to try to use Ne on break-ups. And that never works. Sooner or later you just have to close that door and move on.

  5. #925
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    I'm new to this forum & I'm an INFJ. I have definitely doorslammed people in the past & I have regretted it because I don't like hurting people's feelings. I have also experienced the doorslam by someone who meant a lot to me in my life (and I still love the person even though he cut off all contact many years ago). So I know how it feels to have someone cut you out of their lives. However, I think everyone has a breaking point. Here is a recent example of someone who I would like to doorslam. A woman who I used to consider one of my best friends has been treating me disrespectfully for a couple of years. I can feel that she doesn't like me anymore & is just going thru the motions. Recently she invited me to an art opening at a restaurant/bar. When I walked into the place, My friend was talking to someone who I have doorslammed in the past & who now hates me. Basically the woman is a drama queen & everybody loves a good soap opera (except me). Another woman who is friends with the drama queen came up to me & rudely asked me "What are YOU doing here?" I saw my friend across the bar talking to Drama & she held her finger up to me, telling me not to approach. I would have gone up & at least said hi to Drama, but Drama would be having none of that. So my friend was over there talking to Drama (doing damage control for herself because she was the one who invited me), when Drama was already surrounded by her friends. I was by myself in a hostile environment. Then after Drama retreated to the bathroom, I found a seat & my friend came up to me & told me to get her a drink (she didn't ask or say please). So I went to the bar & waited another 10 minutes while the bartender ignored me (being an introvert has its disadvantages when you are trying to get the attention of the bartender). Finally I got her drink & went back to where I was sitting. Drama left the restaurant after I sat back down. Only then did my friend come over & talk to me (about work & exercising - 2 of the most downright shallow, boring topics anyone can possibly talk about outside of the subjects themselves). I remained calm the entire time & sat by myself, or talked to whoever would talk to me while trying to get a read on the whole situation. I found it really uncomfortable & I tried to block all the negativity coming my way that night, but some of it must have seeped in because I became really stressed by the situation & because I was stressing myself, I became physically ill. I feel my friend is not a true friend to me. I will not doorslam her, but I will never trust her again. I will be kind to her when I see her, but I know her true colors now & I can see thru her false smile. This has been the biggest instance of disrespect from her that I have had recently, but there have been so many other little instances (a thousand cuts) that I have shut down emotionally when I am around her. I have to see her. She is among the circle of people I hang out with. It would damage me if I were to doorslam her. It would force people to choose sides (as in the Drama situation) & people don't usually side with the introvert. I feel like a dog who has been kicked one too many times by her. So in social situations, I will be kind, but I will try & keep my distance & talk more to the people I really do like & admire, the ones who make me feel loved & respected for who I am, faults & all.

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    ...cool story?

  7. #927
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    ...cool story?
    Watch it... you are treading dangerously close to the deep waters of doorslam lake.

  8. #928
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    ...cool story?
    Watch it... you are treading dangerously close to the deep waters of doorslam lake.

  9. #929
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anne H View Post
    [...]So in social situations, I will be kind, but I will try & keep my distance & talk more to the people I really do like & admire, the ones who make me feel loved & respected for who I am, faults & all.
    Sounds good.

    I wouldn’t fault you if you doorslammed your acquaintance. (See my posts, above.) But naturally it’s always good for people to develop coping methods above and beyond the traditional knee-jerk responses for their personality type.

    Welcome to TypoC! I enjoyed reading your analysis of the situation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saturned View Post
    Watch it... you are treading dangerously close to the deep waters of doorslam lake.
    Oh yeah?

    Doorslam Everything Thread!!!!

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