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Thread: When an INFJ doorslams you / cuts you out of their life / breaks off contact

  1. #911
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    Quote Originally Posted by BalanceFind View Post
    My infj was very independent which is partly what attracted me to her, a quiet intuitive strength. She became much more fragile over time and very good at hiding behind an image that she had it all together. And ÿea she was much more open and different with me in private than most others.
    interesting, same with mine.

    but actually i'm a 4w5 ENTP, so 2 would be my stress point, not my strength point... which makes me into one very very unhealthy 4.
    i'm not a 100% about her but i suspect 8w7.

    the thing is, when i lost focus of myself, i stopped growing as the guy she fell for. the classical tale of the disowned 'nice guy' left for the guy in the motorcycle, except i used to be that guy and lost it... i became the 'nice guy', i became the reliable old... dad.

    its not that she wanted it to happen, i am the one who allowed it too, for me it was a new avenue of self exploration and i was excited about that, but with her cycle of running ideals, demanding and then taking for granted until what i did stopped being good enough, that she just consumed every moment that our son was at school or asleep.. there wasn't time or energy left within me for.. me. which would have being fine if she would have being on the same road map as i was - i suppose we could have had some extensive codependent relationship where she provides my needs and i hers, but she wasn't, she wanted to be that sort of person and idealized it but was never able to.

    its not that she she didn't want me to be the man she fall for, she once told me she missed who i used to be, and she probably still does, its that she saw me as an image, an object, but so much of it was a result of elements lifestyle, a minimum level of freedom, social and intellectual indulgence i used to grant myself before her, and there wasn't any room for it with her, and she wasn't willing to provide it with my interaction with her.

    i... i don't know. there's my kid there man, i can't give him up... and i wanted him to have a family, we used to be a family, but even if i have some perfect Ne/Fe brainstorm moment and figure out a way to get back there, i don't know if i could ever look at her romantically again. she'd have to disprove almost everything i think about her. as long as she will maintains being someone i need to figure out how to maneuver strategically around, i will never be able to respect her as a person. but the moment i let go of that, i'll just step on the wrong eggshell and loose him again.

  2. #912

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    I'd also add that if you are a 4 Mane, then you know about negative 2. As an 8, it is very important for me to stay in the healthy 2 and not slide down to avg or negative 2. I have to try to help people help themselves, vs doing a lot for them. I have to set boundaries and stick with them. When I help someone, am I doing it just to do it and could walk away quietly w/o seeking a return, or do I want something in return? When it is the 2nd one, I am going down a bad path. When stakes are small and infrequent, a little of that is okay for a 4 or 8 at 2.

    In my situation and door slam, I thought I took the proper steps for a good investment for myself and for both of us. i thought i protected myself as well as helping out. I should have said no in hindsight because I underestimated her willingness to completely ignore rules and laws when not well. The low 3 wing and/or low 7 shadow. Now as time goes by, it is as if she needs someone to sit her down in person, calmly but firmly explain to her everything that happened in chronological order. The problem is no one can get that in person meeting.

    Expectations of her for others became unrealistic and grandiose under stress. And it is as if she had forgotten years of great things about her, me, and others.

    She is not a victim. She may have been in her past. But she wasn't with me. It is up to me to have boundaries, and to give selflessly. Once she goes past that point, I have to say no. Her First response to me is anger, then pout. This is where how you communicate matters. If you are calm, polite, but firm, it goes much better.

    I'd suggest working on your own emotional intelligence. That helped me years ago and now after not doing for many years. It is not easy.

    There is a fine line for me to show love, patience, restraint, but also to have standards, boundaries for her as well as me and to be willing to take action for myself and others when I have to do so.

    As I said if stakes were small I'd be long gone because I believe it is up to the door slammer to come back on their own and sit down at the table so to speak. I cannot do that for them. That's painful. They come back or they don't. As an Entp 8 it is tough to let go like that by strangely empowering at the same time. Believe me it is crushing for me to know that I was door slammed because of confusion and misinformation on her part. Then when she door slams she thinks others are bad and out to get her or trick her. Everyone loves her yet she stopped seeing that or never knew it.

    It is as if she struggled with two sides, image vs her real life and the real people in her life. Image won despite my very best efforts. I never thought that would be the case. I was very confident that wouldn't be the case because her real life was great. But it wasn't good enough for her.

    Much of my interest is after the door slam. How to get a door slammer to face the music of loose ends and return to reality after saying and doing some terrible things to people. I've been told and read by some that it is impossible, but I need to be able to do the impossible. It's easy to wipe your hands and count your losses. I am unwilling to do that. BUT, a big BUT, I have to be healthy for myself and others too. I have to do the things daily, mentally, physically, emotionally, daily to enter and stay in that struggle. It isn't easy, some days good, some days bad, some days in between.

    My infj 4w3 got his way for specific reasons and she can also find her way out if some of it too.

    Obviously I have learned to not engage in any financial interactions with any infj 4w3's again, and I learned how someone could vanish, change on a dime, and ruin your life all because of not being well and misinformation. I hadn't met anyone before who seemingly had it all together and fell apart so quickly and then was unexpectedly callous and vicious to protect themselves. But now it is all about going back and working everything out. That is by far top priority. It isn't easy.

  3. #913
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    sorry it took me time - i don't always notice responses if there's no quote/mention - we where together for almost 3 years depending on how long i slept last night (i hope my son is still 5)...

    Quote Originally Posted by BalanceFind View Post
    Much of my interest is after the door slam. How to get a door slammer to face the music of loose ends and return to reality after saying and doing some terrible things to people. I've been told and read by some that it is impossible, but I need to be able to do the impossible.
    i don't know about INFJ 4w3, but i can say about an INFJ whose probably an 8w7 or 8/7 so/sp, that i've done it once - i opened the door just a little bit before it got closed again.

    look, your an ENTP, and if your anything like me and other declared ENTPs i've talked to, when your in a state of regretting where you are in life, you can end up looking at you own past actions and constantly have thoughts of other routes you could have taken and how you could have done things differently, is this correct?

    now, at least with my INFJ, she felt exceptionally innocent and victimized, everything that she did was only because 'i made her do it', a.k.a. she had her reasons and i provided them and there is no other possible way in her mind she could have reacted to them, but there's no such leeway when judging me - my reasons and conditions play no role in judging my actions, regardless of any scale of proportions (she has cutt off my relationship with him and is lying to our son i abandoned him, i said mean stuff about her doing so in public), there is no acknowledgement of her own objective actions without her point of view, there's no room for other's subjective point of view in their actions - its a one sided story of what happens when Fe is under stress and there's nothing but shadow Fi in the mix. her actions are my fault and my actions are my fault.

    but for awhile, i was able to embrace her stance - in my mind, anything i am the cause of is something about myself that i can change and avoid, so to a certain extent i prefer things to be my fault. combine that with Ne-Si alternative-history re-imagining's and i can guilt trip myself like crazy.

    so i shared that guilt with her - i wrote her a very long apology letter about everything i could have done and dealt with differently to avoid the destructive cycles within our relationship that lead to the doorslam. by doing so i was reaffirming feeling of innocence and victimhood, and was able to open the door slightly and start conversing with her online (although she wouldn't face me - even on webcam - nor was she willing to let my son talk to me).

    it didn't last, it exploded in my face very quickly... but i was in a different place where i was still in love with her and idealized her, having delusional expectations of her mental and emotional capacities and traits that are clearly not there...

    but since your not in the same place i was, the same strategy of getting her to open the door might be useful for you, if your INFJ is anything like mine.

  4. #914
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    as for me, someone asked me today if i would go back to her if she apologized - i realized and told him if i she demonstrated that she's capable of acknowledging her own mistakes and apologizing for them, then i would run to her faster then lightening.

    i have made the decision about whether i could ever look onto her they way i once did - if the situation ever arises:

    within the limited boundaries of fairness (inverse golden rule), respect to my liberties (no more threats, blackmail or physical violence) and loyalties (to both my son and to any woman i might be with at the time), she is free to interact with me anyway she wants:
    free to share with me when she acknowledges it in cases where she has, free to share with me what she goes through when someone says something mean or judgmental about her or her actions, free to share with me if and when and if she ever questions the judgement in the context of her own actions and introspection rather then blaming and questioning the character of the person telling her that in response, free to share with me when she contemplates and questions whether she has done a mistake or harmed those around her and those she cares about, and whether she has betrayed the standards for which she holds others too, free to share with me when she questions the perspective of others, and free to share with me when she acknowledges her human limits in understanding those, she is free to share with me when she acknowledges her own character faults, questions them and what she needs to work on them.

    i will not challenge her to do so in regards to her relationship with me, because i don't trust that she can, and if i am right - and so far she has only demonstrated that i am - then the only thing that would come of it would be her blaming me for thinking that she has done mistakes and has character faults.

    but if she can demonstrate that my current understanding of her is wrong, or that she can grow as a person an it becomes wrong, she is granted all the room to show me that it's the case, and it's the trust that bestaws all other trusts - if i can trust her to do it, then there's nothing i can't bring up, nothing she can't face, not a drop of bad blood that can't be cleared, not a fault that can't be outgrown or worked on.

    but for now, the way i see it, the more fragile a theory is, the more paths by which it can be easily disproved if it is wrong, and the more chances it provides to be proven wrong, and the more motivation someone else has to take those chances, the more credible it becomes, and the same applies to my understanding of her.

  5. #915

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    How long has your door slam been?

    I did have very minor success two months into my door slam. A heart felt email I sent received an interesting response. It was a long story, a big metaphor. Very indirect. The gist of it was how she was struggling, overwhelmed, needed help, and that I was moving too fast in life and needed to be more observant that she was falling apart and needed help. It took her door slam to get my attention. It was quite the story. I had to figure out which character I was and she was etc...

    The problem with her metaphoric story, was that I never stopped supporting her. I always came through. I provided her with loving encouragement on a regular basis. There wasn't much more or different I could have done for her. I could have changed or done some small things differently, but nothing earth shattering. What she needed was to get her expectations back to normal. She was doing great, andwas great the way she was and I made this clear on a regular basis. She wanted more or different. There was always room for improvement, but it was pretty great.

    She hid some of her falling apart. She doubted that I would come through for her but I did as promised as I always had. She started to doubt because of her past. Others, according to her did not come through. She started to get lost in the grip. I am not sure if she is still in it or if she is just embarrassed or humilated by her actions. She is hiding from anyone and everyone that knows the truth. At first she quietly told people that we broke up. She failed to tell anyone that the new house she is living in is ours not hers. When confronted about this, she acknowledged lying and hiding the truth and snapped short at me on the phone. She said people know what they need to know. This was her lying to others, presenting a false shockingly blatant false image.

    Legal force, and talking to 3rd parties have had the harshest reactions from her. How dare I expose her lies and actions but she can steal huge money and a house and lie about it.

    Her vision got way out of hand. She did not want to go slowly step by step. She did not fix mistakes before launching into other things. The rules did not apply to her.

    No, I wouldn't get back with someone that was capable of this. Two relatives, of mine, elderly ones, have died since September, and no response from her. My brother's best friend died unexpectedly in his sleep during this time, a young middled aged man, and no acknowledgement from her. We had another huge thing happen, actually good news, no response from her. She and I spoke with or saw each other every single day for more than 3 years prior to this, and we knew each other 9 years. none of this counts any door slam time.

    I'd still help her though, non-financially after the mess part is over.

    I was committed for life and she took that from me. I still care though and she can't can't take that from me. It'll just be different which is a major adjustment.

    If she doesn't contact me to meet in person and make peace it will be nothing.

    The longer it goes the less likely she is to even remember facts and truths. Not me. I remember everything, always.

  6. #916
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    Quote Originally Posted by BalanceFind View Post
    How long has your door slam been?
    by now i'd say 4-5 months since the breakup, almost 2 months since the finale doorslam (after it reopened slightly).

    Quote Originally Posted by BalanceFind View Post
    I was committed for life and she took that from me. I still care though and she can't can't take that from me. It'll just be different which is a major adjustment.
    i know the feeling. i.. hate it. i mean seriously, from an outside perspective - a guy who can't stop fighting for a child that isn't biologically his form a women who has broken every single level of trust possible... and still cares for her. i know how pathetic this looks. in the same time i don't think its something i can stop - i can and am falling out of love with her, although there's still bits and pieces left that come up with good memories, but i can't stop caring about her, and i can't stop loving him.

    something amazing got turned into something horrible, emotional scars he never needed to have, pain that won't stop for me, and just because she can't get her head out of her ass, instead of pridefully claiming to be a decent mother, act like one.

  7. #917

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    I know that direct communication is sometimes not preferred by infj's, in my case 4w3.

    But is necessary part of the time. Sometimes the fear of the response is only in the head of an infj. The response many times would be positive, painless. That doesn't mean the other person is always going to agree with you. But communication is more clear and situations get resolved faster. It doesn't have to be confrontational nor combative communication. Doing the less natural more difficult thing can produce great results and expand development.

    It's essential re-visit some things in life, and to step out of withdrawal to do so. Getting some infj's to do that is challenging. It's obviously worth it when big things are on the table. Being worth it to the infj isn't the issue. Overcoming the hesitation or fear of backlash...the wrong assumption is negativity.

    At the very least when things are left on the table, you sit down in person and try to resolve back and forth. You at least try first. Not trying doesn't have any excuses or sympathy or empathy so often sought by a door slammer.

  8. #918
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    Quote Originally Posted by BalanceFind View Post
    I know that direct communication is sometimes not preferred by infj's, in my case 4w3.

    But is necessary part of the time. Sometimes the fear of the response is only in the head of an infj. The response many times would be positive, painless. That doesn't mean the other person is always going to agree with you. But communication is more clear and situations get resolved faster. It doesn't have to be confrontational nor combative communication. Doing the less natural more difficult thing can produce great results and expand development.

    It's essential re-visit some things in life, and to step out of withdrawal to do so. Getting some infj's to do that is challenging. It's obviously worth it when big things are on the table. Being worth it to the infj isn't the issue. Overcoming the hesitation or fear of backlash...the wrong assumption is negativity.

    At the very least when things are left on the table, you sit down in person and try to resolve back and forth. You at least try first. Not trying doesn't have any excuses or sympathy or empathy so often sought by a door slammer.
    i don't get why is this so complicated to the doorslammers:

    there's no mistakes to be made in a vacuum. its only when we incorporate the perspectives of others, that our behaviors and actions can gain negative meanings, that we become responsible for the consequences of our actions towards others, betray the values and expectations by which we judge others, have wrong sides to fight and fight battles we shouldn't, and make wrong presumptions. decent people can make mistakes - all humans do - but then the next day you try to understand all the perspectives involved the best you can, you acknowledge your mistakes and try to do the best you can.

    this is why once you block information from the perspectives other then your own, face away, build a wall or a vacuum in which there's no mistakes for you to acknowledge, you loose that capacity that is so essential to be a decent person. this in itself can be a mistake a decent person makes, if you allow yourself to wake up and regain that capacity the next day. as long as you don't, your continuing to choose to disable your capacity to become one.

    this seems to me so fundamental, so obvious, that i can't believe it demands words, that its needs to be said... its one of those things that i am having a very hard time not taking for granted, not being able to expect it from my exwife, from sympathizer doorslammers, hell i've read so much about your story balancefind that i am still expecting it from your girl... and OrangeAppled's aunt, and whoever inspired esoteric wench to start this thread, and avatar7's friend's girlfriend thingy whatever the fuck is going on there, and whatever is starry's doorslammer story... this is one core understanding, backbone piece of information, that i an having a very hard time engulfing my mind around the fact it can't be taken for granted.

    but there has to be a constructive way to communicate it, to get someone to understand this, a way that they won't experience like an attack but be open for and apply it.... and then a way to do it from beyond the door.

  9. #919

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    i don't get why is this so complicated to the doorslammers:

    there's no mistakes to be made in a vacuum. its only when we incorporate the perspectives of others, that our behaviors and actions can gain negative meanings, that we become responsible for the consequences of our actions towards others, betray the values and expectations by which we judge others, have wrong sides to fight and fight battles we shouldn't, and make wrong presumptions. decent people can make mistakes - all humans do - but then the next day you try to understand all the perspectives involved the best you can, you acknowledge your mistakes and try to do the best you can.

    this is why once you block information from the perspectives other then your own, face away, build a wall or a vacuum in which there's no mistakes for you to acknowledge, you loose that capacity that is so essential to be a decent person. this in itself can be a mistake a decent person makes, if you allow yourself to wake up and regain that capacity the next day. as long as you don't, your continuing to choose to disable your capacity to become one.

    this seems to me so fundamental, so obvious, that i can't believe it demands words, that its needs to be said... its one of those things that i am having a very hard time not taking for granted, not being able to expect it from my exwife, from sympathizer doorslammers, hell i've read so much about your story balancefind that i am still expecting it from your girl... and OrangeAppled's aunt, and whoever inspired esoteric wench to start this thread, and avatar7's friend's girlfriend thingy whatever the fuck is going on there, and whatever is starry's doorslammer story... this is one core understanding, backbone piece of information, that i an having a very hard time engulfing my mind around the fact it can't be taken for granted.

    but there has to be a constructive way to communicate it, to get someone to understand this, a way that they won't experience like an attack but be open for and apply it.... and then a way to do it from beyond the door.

    In a world highly populated with extroverted sensates and extroverted intuitives, some introverted intuitive types are less comfortable and less confident in these and other social situations.

    My infj used her introverted intuition and extroverted feeling well, to be very popular, a leader. She often used extroverted judgement in a negative protective way, when not around me. I was a good influence with that. she was able to add some more positive extroverted judgement.

    I am disappointed because every day for years and years I went out of my way to create a general environment of comfortability for my infj with direct communication with me at any time.

    There is nothing wrong with indirect communication. It was great, but just part of the time. There needs to be a balance with at least some direct communication, especially under stressful circumstances. My infj communicated directly with me quite well, but not as much when under overwhelming stressful circumstances. You can't coast on introverted intuition and not check in with open minded communication.

    Then after a door slam which happens after poor communication and poor understanding from one or both people, the next issue is re-visiting issues.

    Things change all the time every day in life. Mistakes are normal and are made daily in life by everyone, small and or big. Re-visiting miscommunication, misunderstandings, loose ends, is normal every day life. You don't have to have a continued or future relationship with the person, but at minimum you need to confirm facts and non facts, and feelings as well. Most important, principles and values are used for equitable fairness.

    In my situation it is spite and punishment and greed for imagined hurt feelings. Even if hurt feelings are legit, re-visiting helps the infj emotionally. In my case it would also help the infj financially and several other ways.

    Fairness, values, basic human decency, especially based on years of a strong relationship are a priority and have no expiration.

    Re-visiting decisions is less talked about and a great interest of mine.

  10. #920
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    Quote Originally Posted by BalanceFind View Post
    Re-visiting decisions is less talked about and a great interest of mine.
    i think it might be q Fe>Ti thing here, from Jung's description of Fe-doms (which is more ENFJ but may still hold to a lesser extent):
    'But I can't think what I don't feel', such a type said to me once in indignant tones. As far as feeling permits, she can think very well, but every conclusion, however logical, that might lead to a disturbance of feeling is rejected from the outset. It is simply not thought. And thus everything that corresponds with objective valuations is good: these things are loved or treasured; the rest seems merely to exist in a world apart.
    questioning your past decisions is not a comfortable or emotionally convenient process - who enjoys being wrong? we all want to feel that we where right in everything that we do, we normally feel that we do, or otherwise we wouldn't have done it so, its only by being willing to think thoughts that contradict those feelings that we can process our mistakes and misdeeds, and its possibly the bigger the consequences and the more emotionally loaded the choice was, the harder it would be for an Fe>Ti to process thoughts that contradict those feelings.

    as apposed to Ti>Fe, where you pretty much grow to take for granted that your emotions about other people's perspectives and even your own aren't valid, because you will have thoughts contradicting them all the time. its a heart with a bucket of salt.

    i think Fe>Ti's might just... accumulate salt slower.

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