04-05-2012, 07:09 PM #881
04-06-2012, 03:00 AM #882
- Join Date
- Jul 2011
- 4w3 sx
I have plenty of negative traits, being hot tempered when I think people are being picked on being one of them. I am sometimes prone to be self righteous and I do often think I'm right. It's spot on there.I'll even admit to not always expressing negative feelings when I'm working on a project with people, and I can say I keep many relationship polite but at a distance, but never at home if I'm with someone. I think (and you may agree) most of my exes might even say that I could keep some more to myself...you know. I nag. I do that. I'll own that. I have exceedingly high standards of work, and regarding my own personal handling of personal relationships. So those are reported INFJ flaws I'm owning up to. But that said, I always communicate even when my relationships are going badly and not in any demure way, like implied. So that's why I'm very sceptical about this whole "doorslamming" thing.
But I do think the case here is there's hurt feelings and people trying to make sense of their broken relationship with MBTI type theory. Instead of going to accuse INFJs as a group for "doorlsamming" I'd really recommend trying to figure out the more typical type to type miscommunications and what may be the cause as that is usually what makes relationships go sour in the first place. It's sad that there has been tragedies but I wouldn't draw any generalizations about it.
Though I've not read all 88 the posts I read quite enough enough to see that some posters in the thread who complained that theperson who they felt rejected by was being insensitive actually seem really selfish themselves and unable to place themselves in others' shoes and as INFJs are very open to entertain any notions that may lead to some kind of self-awareness the INFJs on this thread were open to entertain this notion and see how it could be possible at first. That is before it turned into some free for all bashing thread justified by -Oh some INFJ hurt my feelings...Why are all you INFJs so deluded as to think you're always right...you're so insensitive...so unable to step in other's shoes (categorically incorrect) yadda yadda. some things mentioned in this thread are just so blatantly untrue. Calling an INFJ insensitive (though we have moments of insensitivity) is like calling an INTP illogical, or an ENFJ as a people hater. It's just not true. And that gets up my crack. Asking INFJs to self reflect on something where they could find room for self-improvement is like shooting fish in a barrel. It plays to our type weakness which sometimes results in not standing up to bullyish behavior. I just don't have much patience for that if I feel the argument proposed is unfounded. I think having specific character traits by type is reasonable, but expecting them to naturally lead to a specific action by default is an unfounded argument.
I have a specific to the point communication style because I'm a pretty decisive person in general and I like exactness in communication. I also think if people discuss something for 88 pages it's good to define what it actually is they are debating. To really define "doorslamming", as people here use that term super loosely to apply to anything from some acquaintance not sending them a message to severe marital meltdown. Most of the 20 pages I read I found there wasn't much anything I'd define out of the ordinary "don't really want to be pursuing this" without direct confrontation, which is really common to all types and polite people in general. And I have personal experience of actual doorslams perpetrated by other types so I'm just saying sometimes experiential experience can be misleading. Is it good to use isolated incidents to draw out general conclusions when the behaviour seems to be something people generally do?
I wouldn't say I'm closed minded. I started reading this thread out of curiosity after all. I'm generally considered to be extremely open minded and curious as people go and by definition INFJs entertain all types of notions before they use their judging function to decide wether they believe in it or not. Now I can tell you that if you find my tone somehow cold or uncaring then you're probs an NFP. The recent Nardi study of brain EEG actually explains one type to type miscommunication that I know personally from being married to an ENFP that the tone of the delivery is so important to him he'll actually be so offended if he perceives it to be somehow unpleasant that he'll not hear what I'm saying...or he'll hear it as negative even when it's a neutral comment. I'm the opposite. I listen to the words and what they mean as opposed to how it's said. I' not so sensitive to that, though I notice tone changes etc. now if I was being a prat I'd say he's being oversensitive, but the more enlightened view is he's just different. It also doesn't make me cold or uncaring if I speak in my natural way, but it can be perceived that way if you're inclined to do so. I think that's how MBTI is useful. Airing dirty laundry in public I'm less sure is constructive in any way, though it's human to want to vent hurt feelings. But we can agree to disagree on this. I think I've said all I wanted to bring in this conversation by now.
04-06-2012, 04:59 AM #883
by Paul Vinz
“Even when you are not in a room,
you are in it, your voice everywhere.” –Bill Holm
The message that’s recorded on the phone
is unmistakably bad news, and then
another call tells us it’s one we love—
a sudden death while traveling, somehow
appropriate for one who always
seized life too completely to stand still.
A door slams shut, a wall has dropped away,
and once again I’m driven back to
empty pages, insufficient words,
to rooms he always filled on entering—
rooms lined with books, piano music, and
good friends who raise their glasses one last time.
And now, as all the lights are blinking off
in every prairie town we’ve ever loved,
when all the toasts are made and songs are sung,
when leaving is the only certainty,
a single voice keeps echoing, along
each dark, untraveled hallway of the heart.
04-06-2012, 08:02 AM #884
I just balk at having the phenomenon of "the INFJ doorslam" characterized by the actions of one unhinged individual. It doesn't acknowledge all of the reasonable INFJs who have actually attempted to engage with the people they eventually feel the need to cut away from, not just flounced off without any explanation and stolen shared property.
04-06-2012, 09:02 AM #885
INFJs sometimes because of a combination of introversion, Fe, and need for closure might be tempted to just do a doorslam. Maybe some other types have similar leanings. (as compared to other types that seem more likely to keep engaging the more there is a disagreement). So it's worth tossing out there as something to talk about, but isn't really indicative of particular types, etc.
I'm still kind of flabbergasted there are almost 900 posts in this thread, on this topic.
"Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"
“Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft
04-06-2012, 09:55 AM #886
04-06-2012, 09:57 AM #887
- Join Date
- Nov 2011
Many thought leaders have written specifically about infj's and enneagram 4 door slams and dropping people. That is a given to me. I'd be willing to share examples here if needed or wanted by some.
Every person is an individual and every situation is different. I have acknowledged that many times here.
The thread is about when an infj door slams, not that all do it or all are the same. But it does exist, and in a different way than some others. If someone wants to start a thread about a perceived negative characteristic of my type, go for it. I would help and add anything I could from an objective viewpoint. Some things in life aren't sunny and cheery, but still worth discussion to benefit a variety of people. I wish I wasn't in my situation, but I most definitely am going to work to help myself in my situation now and for the future, and others.
Some people here, infj and non-infj, have the ability to objectively discuss the topic beginning with acceptance that it does exist. Some others want to debate whether or not exists or is unique in any way. I am not surprised at the variety. Much of my interaction is going to be more productive for me with those who have a belief that it does exist and is unique because after self study, life experience, and interaction with others, I believe it does. It isn't an attack on infj's everywhere. It's one specific thread of one specific topic and things related to it.
I am appreciative for the replies since I came here, and the interaction on the topic. It is very helpful to me with regard to infj's and enneagram 4's. I hope the thread continues infinitely as long as it is productive for people relates to the topic. Thanks.
04-06-2012, 10:34 AM #888
It's not about whether it exists or not. It's about whether it's a negative thing by nature. You seem to be saying "doorslamming is always negative. as evidence, my ex blah blah blah." Your ex's doorslam was negative, I think we can all agree on that (though we only have one side of the story, but even so, the stuff about holding onto shared property and owing you lots of money is pretty objectively bad). It doesn't necessarily follow that every INFJ doorslam is selfish, bad, and irrational. Your personal experience is insufficient evidence to draw that conclusion.
04-06-2012, 11:22 AM #889SocietyGuest
ofcourse we don't know the stories of the people they doorslammed, of which there's nothing said, and we don't know the full stories of the people who doorslammed us, because there's a limit of what can be understood through the silence.. but the patterns on both sides seem to fit.
there's also clear exceptions to this - intricate mystic has went in length proving her capacity for introspection and judging her own mistakes like a mature adult and even hinted at wishing to understand her past partner's perspectives, aprhodite has done the same, fidelia has shown hints of it... this is by no means a generalization that can be applied to all INFJs.
04-06-2012, 11:37 AM #890
- Join Date
- Nov 2011
I posted many, many times objectively about the topic unrelated to my situation. (And many times related to my situation)
If you think I have only posted based on one example, then you haven't read my posts.
It's important to agree on what a door slam is and types of door slams first. That seems unclear or not agreed upon for many.
I don't think leaving people, situations, relationships, is door slamming in and of itself.
I have been able to learn a lot about door slams, causes, and what leads up to one and what happens during one. I hope to learn more about after a door slam. ...about when and how infj's in particular re-visit decisions, change, forgive themselves and others, return to values and principles if applicable. For example when a person reappears after a long absence which happens. Or when one does not and why, all types of things.
By SilkRoad in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive FunctionsReplies: 46Last Post: 02-03-2014, 11:26 PM
By plaminal in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)Replies: 11Last Post: 11-13-2011, 12:13 AM
[MBTItm] INFJ negotiating mid-lifeBy Immaculate Cloud in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)Replies: 5Last Post: 03-21-2009, 09:04 PM
By littledarling in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)Replies: 36Last Post: 02-18-2009, 02:23 PM