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  1. #851

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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    On the basis of all this I am not sure I have EVER done a doorslam. (Although, the difference is that the people I am thinking of were all close to me at some point.) I thought a "classic" doorslam was actually when you gave them a speech, then walked away and refused contact. Like I said in the other thread, I've done that, but did resolve things with both people after a few years.

    I've refused to respond to attempts at contact, without explaining why (they ended up hearing more about the reasons through a mutual friend...) but the person made maybe three attempts and then stopped. I could have tried to resume contact but it would have been highly awkward under the circumstances and I didn't want to anyway. I have no idea how they feel about the whole situation. For all I know it could be anywhere from them feeling quite sad about the whole thing, to really caring very little.

    I might be in the process of one now. Not sure yet. I view it more as shifting the burden of (basically) caring for someone who is mentally unstable, to those who should be more involved in the first place - ie. her parents and community.

    I think I was semi-doorslammed by someone I used to be close to, after telling him I couldn't be his free therapist any more. I had said i was willing to continue a friendship if he didn't vent to me about his confused life any more, and he didn't want more contact after that. Although he did invite me to his leaving drinks before leaving the country. But then when I subsequently sent him a "hi" he was very cold and barely responded (but he did respond monosyllabically). I'm really not sure where that one falls.
    This is very interesting to me. The infj in my situation ignored attempts at contact. Then she spoke a little to 3rd parties. The BIG problem. She told them things that were not correct or accurate. I am not saying lies. I am saying she thought things that were not true or accurate. She didn't hear things correctly, see things correctly, or read things correctly. She assumed that I thought this or that or felt this or that and all were false. She was confused and had facts way wrong. Then she took these assumptions and told others this is what I thought and felt. She never checked in with me to get a very clear understanding. She just took isolated words or things and as long as they were negative to her, she used those things.

    This is my biggest problem. She made incorrect conclusions, then repeated them to others. The 3rd parties relayed this to me. I was stunned with just how far off she was about what I thought and felt.

    Later she intentionally told lies which was different. But it started with jumping to wrong negative conclusions while she was under stress in her life.

    Refusing to communicate after a door slam can lead to disaster for the infj and others. In my case this mes was 100 percent preventable.

  2. #852

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Have you ever done an experiment of sorts, and volunteered in a battered women's shelter? Those are filled with people who, in many cases, believed as you do that they were wrong to consider shutting the door on their abusive spouse.
    This is very very different.

    I would leave that abusive male or female. I would make sure that a very clear, direct, message was received by this person that I was leaving and why. I would protect myself at all costs. I would not just disappear without that clear message somehow. I would find a way to make sure it happened.

    Even in that extreme, it is important to me that I am clear and why. You can do it safely too.

  3. #853
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BalanceFind View Post
    This is very very different.

    I would leave that abusive male or female. I would make sure that a very clear, direct, message was received by this person that I was leaving and why. I would protect myself at all costs. I would not just disappear without that clear message somehow. I would find a way to make sure it happened.

    Even in that extreme, it is important to me that I am clear and why. You can do it safely too.
    I didn't realize doing it that way wasn't also considered a doorslam. I can't think of anyone who has advocated just disappearing with no explanation. In the case of an abusive SO I would want to be away and safe before they received the explanation, though.

  4. #854

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    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    I think it is a bit odd to...I don't know *assume* an INFJ can 'smell out inconsistencies in behavior' better than any other type. This is not some superhuman-magical-power or anything. Other types may choose not to focus on 'behavioral inconsistencies'...but that doesn't mean they do not take
    notice...that they do not recognize when inconsistencies occur (I know I am highly sensitive to all patterns...behavioral or otherwise). Moreover, I think it is a bit odd...and perhaps dangerous to interpersonal relationships to assume that from those 'behavioral incosistences' you can accurately determine an individual's intent/motive. <--- I'm just mentioning this because here is where my relationship with an INFJ jumped-the-tracks. I can truthfully answer 'no' and 'absolutely not' to all of the questions you presented in your post (attempting to arrive at 'How You Earned Yourself A Doorslam')...and yet my INFJ thought I had. He created a big, elaborate story based off of his...super-human-ability to 'smell out inconsistencies in behavior'.

    LOL...and I have to add...'he done fucked-up'.
    The problem with assuming is often times one is wrong, with facts and conclusions. My infj has spoken a few times to a few people and I was amazed at what i heard. Amazed. She took isolated words from memory or email and other places and somehow pieced together some puzzle that is so far from the truth.

    Checking in at timely fashions helps. A door slammer could really improve some situations by simply sitting down and saying what is on the door slammer's mind, thoughts, feelings, facts, questions, conclusions.

    I am sure some of the time the time the door slammer could be on the right track, but many orher times, no. To not meet in person and not have a conversation back and forth, not just the infj feelings, facts ad the other person's feelings too, is ridiculous. Unless it is an extreme situation about safety or abuse, there is no excuse for not doing that in person.

  5. #855
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    ...there's really 86 pages of posts on this thread.
    I'm at a loss of words.
    Whatever it's worth I think it's normal to outgrow relationships and leave, there's usually serious issues with non-communication in any long term romantic relationship that is about to break/ is currently breaking up/ has been broken up. It's also normal not to invest similarly in all relationships and it's also normal not to pursue every relationship. There are many cliches about someone not picking up their phone after a date for example. They're not "doorslamming" just not interested. I think this thread is really weird. I can empathize with the people who have hurt feelings about their relationships going bad, but you know...did my ISFP ex fiancee "doorslam" me when he one morning decided he wanted to date his ex instead, sent me off from our mutual home with a suitcase and one towel and dropped me off at the buss stop? Is he an INFJ in disguise? Or a penpal from India I had when I was seven who never replied to my letter? INFJ???? How about the 5 or so guys who never asked me out for another date after the first one. If I'd call they'd not answer the phone. All INFJs? Or the girl in school I hung out with at music class. Never kept contact. INFJ? Or the guy I lived with for years who "emotionally doorslammed me" every day for ages...I thought he was ENTP but maybe INFJ instead. Or my good friend who hardly ever replies my enthusiastic e-mails (I only send one like every 3 days...) Doesn't make excuses for it either. Busy or INFJ instead? Can't take my intensity...must have emotional issues... I can empathize If you've had a hard time with someone who you think is an INFJ but most of the stuff on this thread is just plain crazy. People of all types end relationships and don't much talk afterwards. My ENTP ex used to not call people because he was pissed off they hadn't called him for a while. The other persona was oblivious to anything being wrong. Do I think all ENTPs are paranoid grudge holders. No. (Maybe he's an INFJ, misreading people though thinking he can) Or My ENTJ friend who used to dump guys because they hadn't replied to her texts fast enough...INFJ???
    I think also us INFJs make it worse by actually considering ourselves being "doorslammers". Though I can see not many want to reply anymore... This would be a good example of a situation where the communication isn't going anywhere anymore and the tone is really hostile.. And as for adopting the "other point of view" If it's some stranger saying that people with my cognitive preference are erratic, evil, immature, self centered, narcissistic, double faced yadda yadda I would say, yes I do not concur with that point of view. Maybe Nardi can do his next set of EEGs to find out wether there's evidence of INFJs being childish evasive narcissists prone to doorlamming. I don't exactly know how that can be studied but maybe some of you can figure it out.
    I mean now the INFJ definition is like this usually:

    INFJ Theme
    For Foreseer Developers, life is a process of never-ending personal growth, their own and others’. If something does not produce personal growth, then it is not truly worthwhile. If it does, then it is indeed worth all the effort it takes to make that growth happen. They enjoy problem solving in ways that sustain the vision they have of what can be and who we can become. They devote their lives to honoring the gifts of others, helping them to see what those gifts are and to find a way to develop those gifts

    Taking a meaningful and creative approach to all aspects of life is essential to their well-being. This gives them the inner strength to allow others the space to be themselves and make the choices they make. It is then that their talent for foreseeing becomes painful. The hard part is that sometimes people don’t want to hear all the insights they have to offer.
    By Linda V. Berens Ph.D. and Dario Nardi Ph.D.
    http://www.careerplanner.com/Berens-...ationships.cfm

    ...whereas judging by this thread and all the INFJ induced horror and destruction witnessed by the "INFJs are doorslammer" advocates the Ni-Fe-Ti-Se function preference seems to have much more sinister implications... Should we be secluded from society as we perpetrate 100% of unwanted relationship communication breakups, though we're a mere 1,5% of the population???
    ...now that I really think about it I think judging by all the evidence most people I know who I have witnessed abruptly end a relationship with minimal excuse because of them perceiving the other as "behaving inappropriately" is actually due to large scale mistyping. they're all INFJs. even the ones who don't want to be.

  6. #856

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    It seems a good topic is do Infj's know when they give warning or don't give warning of a door slam. Sometimes an infj may think he/she has provided a lot of warning, discussion, etc...when perhaps they do and perhaps they don't.

    Do infj's know that to the other person, this is often times out of the blue without warning or hint it is coming?

    My infj was pouting, witholding affection, for a small brief time. This was to me because of one or twi extremely minor every day things. it did carry on longer than normal. Normal was 1-2 days or less. This was more like a week or more. We seemed to be going through the motions politely that week or so. She was intentionally punishing me and admitted so. I know this because she was furious for a moment when she thought I was not noticing her witholding affection.

    I handled it well. I tried different approaches. I walked on egg shells. I was secretly in my own mibd disappointed that she would overreact to such extremes over such minor things. I was getting tired of it but I was still normal. It never blew over for her. I tried affection, talking, listening, routine, something different, anything. Nothing. She was polite but quiet, not normal. When I had to leave town, she didn't contact me the first day or two, not normal. She didn't respond to phone or email. I had someone check on her after a few to several days. She was furious at that. I exposed accidentally some of our basic life situation and that she hadn't been in contact. She told me in anger of very brief call and few words to me that she waa done with me. I had no idea why, none.

    Later I figured out that stress and reminders of some bad parts of her past, triggered the lower Ratp grip levels along with lower enneagram 3 levels, her wing. All she cared about at that point was her vision, material projects, nothing else. She has used overly self absorbed negative feelings to avoid reality, to avoid responsibility, to avoid principles and values, all things she had before.

    In the past, with her or other infj 4w3 types I knew, self indulgence was small an brief, buying an expensive treat, but small an within reason once in a while. Not a big deal.

    She became a different person when something or some things triggered that grip. She has never returned since that time. Her behavior started last june/July. I was door slammed in Sept.

    We definitely had a lot of legit stress with some projects which led to some triggers for her. She panicked that her vision wasn't going to come true. It all worked out well, fine. But she didn't. I have read a lot about infj's that have gone bad, ignore reality and basic responsibilities that can led to huge problems for others and themselves. That is what happened and is happening since. She doesn't have incentive to talk with me or to help me or others other than to be ethical. She has to give something up, a lot to come back to reality. She has chosen greed, hiding, lying, stealing, self preservation at all costs. I never would have seen that coming from her, not with me.

    Her attempt to steal is so brazen. Everyone knows it. Instead of giving up, she is going down with her vision only at all costs.

    As I said before, for me, In a non major loose end situation, I would have still been shocked, panicked, tried to communicate back and forth in person to come to some positive solution, together or apart. Multiple conversations and in person meetings for a brief period. Quickly but thoroughly. Then you go live your own life and whatever happens happens in the future.

  7. #857
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BalanceFind View Post
    This is very interesting to me. The infj in my situation ignored attempts at contact. Then she spoke a little to 3rd parties. The BIG problem. She told them things that were not correct or accurate. I am not saying lies. I am saying she thought things that were not true or accurate. She didn't hear things correctly, see things correctly, or read things correctly. She assumed that I thought this or that or felt this or that and all were false. She was confused and had facts way wrong. Then she took these assumptions and told others this is what I thought and felt. She never checked in with me to get a very clear understanding. She just took isolated words or things and as long as they were negative to her, she used those things.

    This is my biggest problem. She made incorrect conclusions, then repeated them to others. The 3rd parties relayed this to me. I was stunned with just how far off she was about what I thought and felt.

    Later she intentionally told lies which was different. But it started with jumping to wrong negative conclusions while she was under stress in her life.

    Refusing to communicate after a door slam can lead to disaster for the infj and others. In my case this mes was 100 percent preventable.
    I tend not to say much about people who are out of my life, to others. I think it causes problems especially if there are mutual friends and such. And I am aware that my take on the situation may not be 100% representative of how the other person thinks or feels. I can't read their minds, and even if I talked to them, I still wouldn't know. I don't trust many people's words much any more, especially those I've fallen out with.
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    I DOORSLAMMING

  8. #858

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reverie View Post
    ...there's really 86 pages of posts on this thread.
    I'm at a loss of words.
    Whatever it's worth I think it's normal to outgrow relationships and leave, there's usually serious issues with non-communication in any long term romantic relationship that is about to break/ is currently breaking up/ has been broken up. It's also normal not to invest similarly in all relationships and it's also normal not to pursue every relationship. There are many cliches about someone not picking up their phone after a date for example. They're not "doorslamming" just not interested. I think this thread is really weird. I can empathize with the people who have hurt feelings about their relationships going bad, but you know...did my ISFP ex fiancee "doorslam" me when he one morning decided he wanted to date his ex instead, sent me off from our mutual home with a suitcase and one towel and dropped me off at the buss stop? Is he an INFJ in disguise? Or a penpal from India I had when I was seven who never replied to my letter? INFJ???? How about the 5 or so guys who never asked me out for another date after the first one. If I'd call they'd not answer the phone. All INFJs? Or the girl in school I hung out with at music class. Never kept contact. INFJ? Or the guy I lived with for years who "emotionally doorslammed me" every day for ages...I thought he was ENTP but maybe INFJ instead. Or my good friend who hardly ever replies my enthusiastic e-mails (I only send one like every 3 days...) Doesn't make excuses for it either. Busy or INFJ instead? Can't take my intensity...must have emotional issues... I can empathize If you've had a hard time with someone who you think is an INFJ but most of the stuff on this thread is just plain crazy. People of all types end relationships and don't much talk afterwards. My ENTP ex used to not call people because he was pissed off they hadn't called him for a while. The other persona was oblivious to anything being wrong. Do I think all ENTPs are paranoid grudge holders. No. (Maybe he's an INFJ, misreading people though thinking he can) Or My ENTJ friend who used to dump guys because they hadn't replied to her texts fast enough...INFJ???
    I think also us INFJs make it worse by actually considering ourselves being "doorslammers". Though I can see not many want to reply anymore... This would be a good example of a situation where the communication isn't going anywhere anymore and the tone is really hostile.. And as for adopting the "other point of view" If it's some stranger saying that people with my cognitive preference are erratic, evil, immature, self centered, narcissistic, double faced yadda yadda I would say, yes I do not concur with that point of view. Maybe Nardi can do his next set of EEGs to find out wether there's evidence of INFJs being childish evasive narcissists prone to doorlamming. I don't exactly know how that can be studied but maybe some of you can figure it out.
    I mean now the INFJ definition is like this usually:

    INFJ Theme
    For Foreseer Developers, life is a process of never-ending personal growth, their own and others’. If something does not produce personal growth, then it is not truly worthwhile. If it does, then it is indeed worth all the effort it takes to make that growth happen. They enjoy problem solving in ways that sustain the vision they have of what can be and who we can become. They devote their lives to honoring the gifts of others, helping them to see what those gifts are and to find a way to develop those gifts

    Taking a meaningful and creative approach to all aspects of life is essential to their well-being. This gives them the inner strength to allow others the space to be themselves and make the choices they make. It is then that their talent for foreseeing becomes painful. The hard part is that sometimes people don’t want to hear all the insights they have to offer.
    By Linda V. Berens Ph.D. and Dario Nardi Ph.D.
    http://www.careerplanner.com/Berens-...ationships.cfm

    ...whereas judging by this thread and all the INFJ induced horror and destruction witnessed by the "INFJs are doorslammer" advocates the Ni-Fe-Ti-Se function preference seems to have much more sinister implications... Should we be secluded from society as we perpetrate 100% of unwanted relationship communication breakups, though we're a mere 1,5% of the population???
    ...now that I really think about it I think judging by all the evidence most people I know who I have witnessed abruptly end a relationship with minimal excuse because of them perceiving the other as "behaving inappropriately" is actually due to large scale mistyping. they're all INFJs. even the ones who don't want to be.

    It isn't about leaving, it's about how you leave.

    If you are in a close every day relationship with someone, do you have the courage and reapect for the other person to meet with that person before disappearing? Ay least some of the time a door slammer door slams for wrong reasons or impulsively.

    It isn't all about you. Relationships of all kinds are about two people.

    If I meet someone new and we go out once or a few times and I am not intersted, I tell the other person, especially when i think they are interested. I don't just ignore them so they get a hint. That's ridiculous. It's passive aggressive, unclear, and self absorbed. Courage, respect, human decency.

  9. #859

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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    I tend not to say much about people who are out of my life, to others. I think it causes problems especially if there are mutual friends and such. And I am aware that my take on the situation may not be 100% representative of how the other person thinks or feels. I can't read their minds, and even if I talked to them, I still wouldn't know. I don't trust many people's words much any more, especially those I've fallen out with.
    She did exacty what you are saying. She barely mentioned me to our friends there. She is very private. I had our friends contact her and mention me. i did this because she owes me a lot of money. But I would have done it anyway. We did not have any major problems of which I knew. Just some added life stress not caused by each other. Nothing more. The added bonus information is what she tells them about me or us.

    That is correct you cannot read minds and neither can anyone else.

    Some infj's think they are clear when they aren't. Some assume the other person knows what's bothering you when they don't. And when they don't some infj's are upset that the non infj couldn't read their mind. This is some not all. But it happens. Therefore a better communication approach is desired and would be more effective for all.

    Maybe that person doesn't trust you either, especially after a door slam. Why not tell the person i don't trust you, and why. Have a dialogue for clarity.

  10. #860
    Not Sexy. Not ENFP. Starry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reverie View Post
    What I meant was that I and from what I've gathered other INFJs are pretty sensitive to noticing underlying dynamics in groups and relationships...when other's are lying or when there's foul play. That's what I meant. That's why the type descriptions usually mention that type of thing in them. "The almost supernatural ability to read people" yadda yadda...The reports for companies mentioning INFJs as being some kind of barometers for the general atmosphere in teams because we're the first to notice disharmony.
    I would say generally it's accurate and basically just a general talent or ability, like ENFPs generally having talent for creative thinking or acting (neurological studies show activity in a part of the brain which is responsible for the ability to mimic). It's just natural disposition. I don't think it makes anyone infallible. I'm totally guilty of sometimes reading too much into a simple situation. But then again there are often times I am right, when someone seems shady and they turn out to do something harmful. at work I'm very aware of how people group together and how those groups relate. If there's friction I feel like I'm in a pressure cooker because I'm much more sensitive to it than most people.
    Obviously the man just had poor judgement if that's the case. Maybe he projected his fears unto you. That's very sad.
    Yah... I guess I'm just not all that big on these kinds of type descriptions. I believe they are often misleading...and may, in fact, cause some individuals to come to inaccurate conclusions about themselves (positive and negative). But that's just me.

    What's weird about 'me and the doorslam'...is that I'm not even against it! Seriously! Even after having my life terribly effected by one. I don't want Mane and BalanceFind to come after me here...but outside of a variety of criminal behaviors...I am a firm believer in...'People gotta do what people gotta do'. I just feel uncomfortable when others start to imply that an INFJ might doorslam because they are 'seers' of sorts. (and so here we will just disagree which is cool).

    PS. I'm fairly sure my INFJ believed he was a 'seer'. But he was always wrong. I was actually the individual that could nail down exactly what was going on in a interpersonal/social situation. Likewise...I can't act or mimic worth shit. But man...my INFJ...he could have been an Acadamy Award receipent had he gone in that direction!!!

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