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  1. #701

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    Re-connecting with door slammers varies widely. I have read a lot from infj's here about leaving the door open sometimes. The problem with that is for some, it's too late.

    In my situation of course, it's all about getting my stuff and moving on. I did say I would help her non-financially from a distance in the future after that and only after that.

    A lot depends on type of door slam and what loose ends we're left or not and damage caused or not.

    If there were no to little loose ends, reappearing down the road is much more plausible. Just because a door is left open slight sometimes, doesn't mean the other person wants to take it nor wants to go to the trouble to do the work.

    Even if I had no loose ends, it is still 50/50 and not a non-infj rescuing an infj. It's not all about the infj, nor is it all about the other person either.

    I can't speak for other non-infj's but for me, when loose ends exist, my feelings only harden more over time. When no loose ends exist, my type quickly moves on to other things in life and reappearing down the road is a 50/50 roll of dice for infj. If I am in relationship with someone else or even just beginning one, you don't have a chance. You also may not have a chance even if I'm single at the time of reappearance. But if I'm single and nothing bad happened previously, there is always a chance. But not a rescuer situation. The other person needs to be strong and independent. Previously I reconnected with my infj a few times over the years because we didn't have any past issues. My type is very open to that.

  2. #702
    ..... Intricate Mystic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saturned View Post
    Is there any way to doorslam this thread?
    Hmmm.....I wonder why you would want to do that?

  3. #703
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    i never wanted her to feel bad about herself, just about those actions so she won't do them again... which was problemaitc when someone always feel their actions where justified. and that just ended up backfiring into her doing those actions. as far as i was concerned i was just letting her know of my concerns. i suppose the other option would have being to trust in her blindly - to let her prove herself by not doing them, but wouldn't that just be putting my concerns and real issues under the rug? its also possible that i should have accepted that she won't come up with a solution for my concern about her behaviors, and instead i could have gone around it into the obvious targets - instead of questioning whether she can really commit to someone or whether she would respect father/son bonds, i could have asked her more questions to open up about her stepfathers leaving her and what she felt... went at it from that direction.
    That approach might be the one with the most potential to change her perspective about the importance and effects of father/child bonds.

    but this entire aproach - that "this stratagy was wrong" and "that stratagy might have being better"... where is she in that? where is she as a person? the one responsible for her own actions, responsible for her own introspection and dealing with her own issues so she can grow and overcome and deal with with her flaws rather then act on them and feel bad for it and then blame whoever they are hurting for being the reason she feels bad about it?
    Exactly. It's ultimately up to the other person to be responsible for their actions. You can suggest, advise, try to enlighten, etc. only up to a point. If you go too far with it you become paternalistic, which weakens the other person and puts you in a role that isn't healthy for either of you.

    but what about him - does she think that if she doesn't see it then it isn't there? does she think that i'm not there in the back of his head, waiting to either be released when he - just like she has with me - gets to cry to his special someone one day about the missing stones in his self esteem jar? or come out in bursts of anger about feeling abandoned by me - someone he trusted to always be there for him? or - if she'd ever be willing before the later happens - explode in happiness if he ever gets to see me again? or worst - what if the way she has demonized me has taken to how she describes me, what if she is telling him that daddy is a bad man, and now he is going to confuse me as his role model with anything he knows is bad to do and will feed into a secret desire to be just that as a way to get close to me in his head?
    and does she think that just because she won't face her own flaws, all the potentials of all the ways i completed her as a parent aren't there? does she think all the ideas she doesn't come up with and oppertunities i'm not there to catch and teach him to nurture his development and all the emotional and mental tools i am not there to provide for him aren't there, floating behind the barrier of our mistakes towards each other (and in the process - towards him)?
    Well, if she didn't experience growing up with a father or father-figure, she probably doesn't understand the potentially negative consequences of you not being there for your step-son, sadly. It's clear that you care greatly for your step-son, are concerned about him and most likely miss him a lot. I'm so sorry you are suffering in this way.

    so i get it - at least in my worst version of her mindset - i would guess she blames everything on me and thus her only regrets are hitting on me and letting me in - but does she think she can undo the relationship by pretending it never happened? or perhaps it is ok because her choices are all my fault anyway so for her i am the one doing it to him, even though i have being fighting for him and trying to fix it while she was fighting me off?
    Maybe she will see the truth of the situation in the future. Sometimes people have to distance themselves for a bit to be able to view their lives more objectively.

    decent people make mistakes - everyone hurts everyone they care for in the grand scheme of things - but eventually they understand those mistakes by being open to the other's point of view, they acknowledge them and fix them. its the other kind of people who stand by their mistakes. at any given moment, the later can become the first, and there's no deadline, but there are snowballs - and the more you wait the worst the impacts of the mistake become.
    True.

    i just don't feel like i know who she is anymore - the elements of what she's being doing... its not within the character of the person i fall for. if its a lapse in judgement i can accept that, but so far - for whatever reason - she's being sticking by it.

    i'm honestly very conflicted about how i feel about her at this point.
    INFJs can have a dark side, unfortunately. The good parts of her that you liked are probably still there....you're just not getting to see them.

    Quote Originally Posted by BalanceFind View Post
    Re-connecting with door slammers varies widely. I have read a lot from infj's here about leaving the door open sometimes. The problem with that is for some, it's too late.
    I'm sure it's probably too late in a lot of cases. :/

    A lot depends on type of door slam and what loose ends we're left or not and damage caused or not.

    If there were no to little loose ends, reappearing down the road is much more plausible. Just because a door is left open slight sometimes, doesn't mean the other person wants to take it nor wants to go to the trouble to do the work.
    Yes, I would imagine a wall of impenetrable silence doesn't exactly make you feel motivated to break through it.
    Even if I had no loose ends, it is still 50/50 and not a non-infj rescuing an infj. It's not all about the infj, nor is it all about the other person either.

    I can't speak for other non-infj's but for me, when loose ends exist, my feelings only harden more over time. When no loose ends exist, my type quickly moves on to other things in life and reappearing down the road is a 50/50 roll of dice for infj. If I am in relationship with someone else or even just beginning one, you don't have a chance. You also may not have a chance even if I'm single at the time of reappearance. But if I'm single and nothing bad happened previously, there is always a chance. But not a rescuer situation. The other person needs to be strong and independent. Previously I reconnected with my infj a few times over the years because we didn't have any past issues. My type is very open to that.
    Interesting. Thanks for sharing this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Intricate Mystic View Post
    if she didn't experience growing up with a father or father-figure, she probably doesn't understand the potentially negative consequences of you not being there for your step-son, sadly. It's clear that you care greatly for your step-son, are concerned about him and most likely miss him a lot. I'm so sorry you are suffering in this way.
    that's just the thing - she has expeirenced growing up with multiply father figures, a step father after another after another, my shoulder got soaked many times with a lot of tears about loosing them felt like for her and how it impacted her life... and now she's giving our son something to cry about.

  5. #705

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    Intricate Mystic, I can only speak for myself, and as an Entp type.

    The thing I find the most amazing about this thread is that Fidelia dated an Estj guy. In my experience all of the infj people I have met are very liberal ideologically. And all the Estj's I have met have been extremely conservative ideologically. I have trouble seeing the compatibility there. I can see moderate types and infj's and other liberal types. That's interesting. Perhaps they are two less extreme in their types?

    I now know how to not only identify types better, but in particular what to watch out for with myself and infj types.

    With regards to door slamming, as time moves on and on, with loose ends still on the table, in my situation, my infj is not only getting basic facts wrong, she is making them whatever she wants them to be. She misinterpreted the facts at the beginning, then realized she did. But she doesn't care to revisit important issues. It's not only an underdeveloped logic, it's a selfish, ruthless not caring about anything urgent. The rules don't apply. The length of extreme of that is something i was not prepared for ans underestimated. It's the exact opposite of what I knew. I also never met anyone who would intentionally break the rules in such a big qay and lie and steal under great durress. Reality and fairness always came first, especially economically.

    No future with this one, because of the extreme of her actions. But my type can handle the coming and goings of infj's in general. I don't think you'd find that in most non p types though. And perhaps it is my type, or the extreme of my situation, but the longer the time passes the less sympathy and empathy i have for someone who disregarded urgent matters for others in basic everyday reality out of extreme selfishness.

  6. #706
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BalanceFind View Post
    Intricate Mystic, I can only speak for myself, and as an Entp type.

    The thing I find the most amazing about this thread is that Fidelia dated an Estj guy. In my experience all of the infj people I have met are very liberal ideologically. And all the Estj's I have met have been extremely conservative ideologically. I have trouble seeing the compatibility there. I can see moderate types and infj's and other liberal types. That's interesting. Perhaps they are two less extreme in their types?

    I now know how to not only identify types better, but in particular what to watch out for with myself and infj types.

    With regards to door slamming, as time moves on and on, with loose ends still on the table, in my situation, my infj is not only getting basic facts wrong, she is making them whatever she wants them to be. She misinterpreted the facts at the beginning, then realized she did. But she doesn't care to revisit important issues. It's not only an underdeveloped logic, it's a selfish, ruthless not caring about anything urgent. The rules don't apply. The length of extreme of that is something i was not prepared for ans underestimated. It's the exact opposite of what I knew. I also never met anyone who would intentionally break the rules in such a big qay and lie and steal under great durress. Reality and fairness always came first, especially economically.

    No future with this one, because of the extreme of her actions. But my type can handle the coming and goings of infj's in general. I don't think you'd find that in most non p types though. And perhaps it is my type, or the extreme of my situation, but the longer the time passes the less sympathy and empathy i have for someone who disregarded urgent matters for others in basic everyday reality out of extreme selfishness.
    There are plenty of INFJs who are drawn to and get involved with ESTJs or ExxJs or whatever. I find it very odd when people say that two types "never" get involved or that an INFJ is always liberal and an ESTJ is always conservative or whatever. I myself was drawn to (didn't date him...but close) a significantly older ESTJ who when younger was a punk/anarchist/drug taker. He's much more "conservative" now but was not always that way. I think you'll find that quite a lot of INFJs have some ExTJ history.

    My best friend who is an INFJ is married to an ESTJ, I'm pretty sure...he might be ISTJ but ESTJ seems most likely. There is a lot about ESTJs that I find attractive, though it would remain to be seen if a long-term relationship could work out.

    It also seems a shame that Mane had nothing to say about Fidelia's long well-thought-out post except a "no" to correct one little thing she said. The rest was entirely ignored. Definitely makes the INFJs posting in this thread feel as though they're not even being heard unless it's right in line with what the questioners are wanting to hear.
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  7. #707

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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    There are plenty of INFJs who are drawn to and get involved with ESTJs or ExxJs or whatever. I find it very odd when people say that two types "never" get involved or that an INFJ is always liberal and an ESTJ is always conservative or whatever. I myself was drawn to (didn't date him...but close) a significantly older ESTJ who when younger was a punk/anarchist/drug taker. He's much more "conservative" now but was not always that way. I think you'll find that quite a lot of INFJs have some ExTJ history.

    My best friend who is an INFJ is married to an ESTJ, I'm pretty sure...he might be ISTJ but ESTJ seems most likely. There is a lot about ESTJs that I find attractive, though it would remain to be seen if a long-term relationship could work out.

    It also seems a shame that Mane had nothing to say about Fidelia's long well-thought-out post except a "no" to correct one little thing she said. The rest was entirely ignored. Definitely makes the INFJs posting in this thread feel as though they're not even being heard unless it's right in line with what the questioners are wanting to hear.
    There is a big difference between Entj and Estj.

    I also prefaced by saying my experience or in my opinion. It's nothing to be defensive about.

  8. #708
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    It also seems a shame that Mane had nothing to say about Fidelia's long well-thought-out post except a "no" to correct one little thing she said. The rest was entirely ignored. Definitely makes the INFJs posting in this thread feel as though they're not even being heard unless it's right in line with what the questioners are wanting to hear.
    thank you for your blunt and honest opinion of what my actions make others feel

    fiedlia - no, i don't think its releavent, but thank you for sharing.

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    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BalanceFind View Post
    There is a big difference between Entj and Estj.

    I also prefaced by saying my experience or in my opinion. It's nothing to be defensive about.
    I just find it very bizarre that throughout this thread, there seems to be a trend for the INFJs to write a long well thought out post which does (to the best of their ability) address the topic at hand...and then 95% of it is ignored and what will be picked up on by the ENTPs is one tiny thing not even particularly relevant to the thrust of the post - like "no you're wrong, she wasn't pregnant when we got together. the end". Or "gosh, that INFJ went out with an ESTJ. The end." Everything else that was actually relevant or interesting to the topic at hand just gets ignored.

    I asked earlier if there was a possibility that the INFJs in these relationships didn't feel heard. I don't think that was ever responded to. But I sure don't feel heard by the ENTPs who I have been conversing with in this thread.
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  10. #710
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    thank you for your blunt and honest opinion of what my actions make others feel

    fiedlia - no, i don't think its releavent, but thank you for sharing.
    Well, I don't know if you asked yourself why the INFJs in this thread have dropped out one by one... Did you read what any of them had to say?
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