User Tag List

Page 69 of 170 FirstFirst ... 1959676869707179119169 ... LastLast
Results 681 to 690 of 1696

Thread: When an INFJ doorslams you / cuts you out of their life / breaks off contact

  1. #681
    Society
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Intricate Mystic View Post
    I'm not sure. I definitely wouldn't do it by coming across as being critical. Maybe it would be best to express your concern in the form of an objective observation i.e. explain how a particular behavior of the INFJ seems inconsistent with their stated philosophies? You could then talk about how that affects you, in an honest, kind, loving, non-critical way. If you could help them visualize your preferred ideal scenario that might be helpful, too. Just pointing out someone's shortcomings just makes the person feel bad if you don't offer any solution. You will probably be highlighting a weak area that they feel bad about so that's why it's important to be gentle and kind while NOT allowing the INFJ to change the subject or squirm out of the discussion in some way. Also, don't get AMUSED when they attempt to do that, either! Be firm but kind and loving. -my 2 cents
    hmm...

    see, to me i was just sort of an expectation, an inner mirror, and i was surprised by its lack ther of each time the hypocracies came up... basically my gut reaction: "what? now it's wrong when i do it? you do it all the time [expend the times where she did the things she's blaming me for doing]"...

    she interpreted it as me "building ammo" to win the argument because i didn't bring those things up in the first place, she couldn't get that what bothered me about it was the hypocracy, not the fact she did those things - it seems obvious to me that if i see a need to do it under some circumstances i would be understanding and tolerant towards times where she does the same thing, so i had no reason to bring it up in the first place until she judged me based on those actions and thus tried denying me the freedom to do the same things she does.

    i guess based on what your telling me, maybe the alternative would have being to take a step back, notice the pattern, and - not within the conflict but after - bring up something along the lines of "sweety, you know when you did [insert item], and i completely understand why [insert the reason], but then when you [insert the reasons], you blamed me for [insert the same item]? its not that it bothers me that you did it, and if you don't like me doing that we can talk about that too, but its just important to me that we try to keep our relationship fair"... sort of lay out the groundworks that the concept is there and it bothers me.

    and then maybe instead of hypocracy - which is an accusation by nature - i could have used the word "fair" as an association key to remind her of that notion? instead of just bringing up the hypocracy in her judgement thinking it will obviously be wrong for her, i could have lead to it with "remember what we talked about fairness?" or "sweety i don't think that's fair" sort of thing..., sort of like a safeword for relationship conflicts. something along those lines?

    although i am not sure how i could use it at this point where the multi-layered hypocracies are the core of whats preventing us from being able to talk it out like adults.

  2. #682
    Senior Member Array
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    144

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by phobik View Post
    Yep.

    Entp/Enfp like a challenge. Sometimes they can idealize and believe can see what they want to see instead of what is there. Potential so to speak.

  3. #683
    Society
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BalanceFind View Post
    Entp/Enfp like a challenge. Sometimes they can idealize and believe can see what they want to see instead of what is there. Potential so to speak.
    i doubt santa claus avoided anyone's imaginery chimney because of their type

  4. #684
    FRACTALICIOUS Array phobik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    6,510

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BalanceFind View Post
    Entp/Enfp like a challenge. Sometimes they can idealize and believe can see what they want to see instead of what is there. Potential so to speak.
    Yeah, but failing to realized the actual reality isn't the same as the envisioned potential, can be shortsighted.
    To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, be nothing.
    ~ Elbert Hubbard

    Music provides one of the clearest examples of a much deeper relation between mathematics and human experience.

  5. #685
    ..... Array Intricate Mystic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    597

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    hmm...

    see, to me i was just sort of an expectation, an inner mirror, and i was surprised by its lack ther of each time the hypocracies came up... basically my gut reaction: "what? now it's wrong when i do it? you do it all the time [expend the times where she did the things she's blaming me for doing]"...
    I'm familiar with that scenario.

    she interpreted it as me "building ammo" to win the argument because i didn't bring those things up in the first place, she couldn't get that what bothered me about it was the hypocracy, not the fact she did those things - it seems obvious to me that if i see a need to do it under some circumstances i would be understanding and tolerant towards times where she does the same thing, so i had no reason to bring it up in the first place until she judged me based on those actions and thus tried denying me the freedom to do the same things she does.
    So you weren't able to get her to see that she was being inconsistent. It's possible that she did see it on some level but didn't want to admit it. I've done that.

    i guess based on what your telling me, maybe the alternative would have being to take a step back, notice the pattern, and - not within the conflict but after - bring up something along the lines of "sweety, you know when you did [insert item], and i completely understand why [insert the reason], but then when you [insert the reasons], you blamed me for [insert the same item]? its not that it bothers me that you did it, and if you don't like me doing that we can talk about that too, but its just important to me that we try to keep our relationship fair"... sort of lay out the groundworks that the concept is there and it bothers me.

    and then maybe instead of hypocracy - which is an accusation by nature - i could have used the word "fair" as an association key to remind her of that notion? instead of just bringing up the hypocracy in her judgement thinking it will obviously be wrong for her, i could have lead to it with "remember what we talked about fairness?" or "sweety i don't think that's fair" sort of thing..., sort of like a safeword for relationship conflicts. something along those lines?

    although i am not sure how i could use it at this point where the multi-layered hypocracies are the core of whats preventing us from being able to talk it out like adults.
    That sounds like a great approach (theoretically). Although if you point out that she's not being fair she could counter with a *special circumstances* explanation for why it's ok for her to do something but not you. So, perhaps you would need to have a strategy that plans for that possibility. Maybe she could be allowed some amount of special treatment for special circumstances as long as she granted you the same thing in other areas of the relationship? Another thought is that making everything 50/50 fair isn't so ideal because each person is supposed to be generous in a relationship and give lots more than 50%. Was there some sort of balance between her being a hypocrite in some areas but being generous in others? Would an arrangement like that work?

  6. #686
    Society
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Intricate Mystic View Post
    she could counter with a *special circumstances* explanation for why it's ok for her to do something but not you. So, perhaps you would need to have a strategy that plans for that possibility. Maybe she could be allowed some amount of special treatment for special circumstances as long as she granted you the same thing in other areas of the relationship? Another thought is that making everything 50/50 fair isn't so ideal because each person is supposed to be generous in a relationship and give lots more than 50%. Was there some sort of balance between her being a hypocrite in some areas but being generous in others? Would an arrangement like that work?
    i'm not sure, there's definetly many areas where i don't expect or want a mirror image within an SO, and i can give a pretty big leeway for subjective context - and its sort of unavoidable in an Ni/Ne relationship that you'll end up playing with the deeper meanings of the situation from different directions - the "in essance" game, "in essance they where the same", "in essance they where different" (this is one area where i learned that reflecting the Fe as an anchor to what it made you feel is the core, because with Ti you just get lost in semantics)... but even then i expect that understanding towards my subjective context in return. regardless if it is concretely or metaphorically, regardless if its an action in itself or a specific way of processing a given context, being judged negatively for doing the same things she does... i don't know if that's something i could ever respect, i can tolerate it as a lapse of judgement / normal human mistake everyone makes once in awhile, but i don't know if i can respect it as a stance. in some ways it implies to me - unfairness in general within a relationship implies to me - a lack of value towards the one the situation is unfair towards. it makes me feel disrespected.

  7. #687
    Senior Member Array
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    144

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by phobik View Post
    Yeah, but failing to realized the actual reality isn't the same as the envisioned potential, can be shortsighted.
    Exactly. In terms of dating it is important to understand that you are dating what is there, not potential, or a changed version of someone.

    Entp/Enfp types are very good at helping other people challenge themselves to reach their potential, especially the overlooked, the underdog. They see potential in people that a lot of other types don't see. This is fine in business teaching, coaching and other activities but not dating. You have to respect what is actually there in dating. Entp/Enfp types get hunches about overlooked people. I am this so I know it well. As long as it is healthy and kept in balance, it's fine. You can't save everyone so to speak.

  8. #688
    ..... Array Intricate Mystic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    597

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    i'm not sure, there's definetly many areas where i don't expect or want a mirror image within an SO, and i can give a pretty big leeway for subjective context - and its sort of unavoidable in an Ni/Ne relationship that you'll end up playing with the deeper meanings of the situation from different directions - the "in essance" game, "in essance they where the same", "in essance they where different" (this is one area where i learned that reflecting the Fe as an anchor to what it made you feel is the core, because with Ti you just get lost in semantics)... but even then i expect that understanding towards my subjective context in return. regardless if it is concretely or metaphorically, regardless if its an action in itself or a specific way of processing a given context, being judged negatively for doing the same things she does... i don't know if that's something i could ever respect, i can tolerate it as a lapse of judgement / normal human mistake everyone makes once in awhile, but i don't know if i can respect it as a stance. in some ways it implies to me - unfairness in general within a relationship implies to me - a lack of value towards the one the situation is unfair towards. it makes me feel disrespected.
    Interesting. Thank you for explaining this. I can understand why it would be better to reflect Fe than get involved too much with Ti-Ti interactions as it's not fun when the discussion devolves into discussing semantics. I hope I didn't come across as advocating hypocrisy as a stance. My concern is more in the realm of it being something INFJs might have a general tendancy toward and thus something they would have to be made aware of and work to overcome. (That's the case with me). Also, the issue of hypocrisy has been brought up by other ENTPs in relationships with INFJs that didn't work out. However, there are also ENTP-INFJ relationships in which both are quite happy. It would be interesting to explore the subject of hypocrisy with a successful pairing of these types to see if it's a problem for them (or not) and if so, how they manage it. Overall, concerning you and your INFJ, it seems that you both feel disrespected right now with yours stemming from unfairness in the relationship and hers from your having discussed relationship issues with people you both know. I'm sure that was an easy mistake for you to have made- you were in a state of distress and needed to talk about it with others. I made this mistake myself when going through a divorce. It's one of the particularly awful aspects of relationship break-ups that the very people you instinctively go to for support (family and friends) can't really give objective help because they know both people involved and are thus emotionally affected by the situation themselves.

  9. #689
    Senior Member Array
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    144

    Default

    I can only speak for myself and my experience.

    Perhaps my infj had some reasonable hurt feelings issues or concerns. that's debatable and in the grand scheme of life very minor compared to her response to feelings and or stress.

    My infj probably is just upset as I am right now. About what? I couldn't tell you. She vanished.

    Those issues would likely be about getting enough attention and support. I believe she received plenty of both in all senses of the words daily. Even if she felt differently, settling big issues in fair, honorable ways is still the way to go.

    Because I cared, loved and was committed, I went through the range of emotions for some time before concluding not only did I not deserve her actions, but that while not perfect, I treated her extremely well.

    There was this balancing act for my infj of being selfless and being self indulgent.

    Most of the time it was fine, a non-issue.

    I have always been pretty open to dating very different types and have. Being healthy in your type is important. If anything I have dated introverted feelers the most.

  10. #690
    Society
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Intricate Mystic View Post
    Interesting. Thank you for explaining this. I can understand why it would be better to reflect Fe than get involved too much with Ti-Ti interactions as it's not fun when the discussion devolves into discussing semantics.
    Ti has its value - it gears us both to take things into the shared playing field, it reminds us of our limits and that we can't actually know what the other person is knowing, its sort of like a good oversight tool for Fe... but without using Fe as an anchor, its incredibly easy - at least for me - to get distracted by Ti.

    often things that i brought up ended up in agreement on things that weren't actually what i remembered bringing up or even related to what i meant, only for me to later realize the issue still stands and nothing actually got resolved

    on the other hand, a pure Fe approach of "this means you don't [insert feeling]", can be just as destructive, because we forget that people express things differently, take different amounts of effort into doing different things, and deal with things differently, we forget the limits of our Fe in that we can't actually know what the other person is going through or feeling.

    and sometimes it's often best to use Ti to first define find the best way to define what is it that your trying to express or looking for, and then if they actually relate to that in how they feel about you and you see that they do, just find a way to trust that they do, regardless of how you interpret specific expressions that might say otherwise. it's also entirely possible that you'd be introducing a new notion to them that they will only relate to once you've expressed it.

    this is one thing that i should have done. for example we often got lost in trying to talk about loyalty and lost in semantics to a point where after i thought she agreed to never repeat something that she did to the one before me - she ended up nearly doing the exact same thing to me, and ended up demonstrating that she didn't even understand that this was exactly what she repented... and of course she didn't, because we did it all wrong and the agreement was never on what I actually meant.
    but on the other hand, if I would have just taken a moment to figure the best way to express to her out how I experience loyalty - that for me once I'm in love with someone and feel committed to them I'm not mentally open or emotionally available to form those sort of connections with someone else, that even though i gain a lot more attention from other women when I am in a relationship, I can't really consider any flirting or moves towards me seriously beyond "nana nanana you want me and you can't get me"... basically, that there's nothing for me to "not go through with", no urges to fight, no 'missed opportunities' to resent... well, if i just expressed that when i was with her, she would have just being able to tell me, "no i don't feel this way", in which case we might have tried to figure out why or how we deal with that...
    or maybe she would have even embraced as an attitude that she never thought of it and it would have actually changed the way she felt - i know that sort of thing happens to me all the time. for example my original notion of relationships was very give and take, almost a barter system, and when she introduced me to the idea of thinking about the family as a singular tribal entity - with our combined needs intertwined and where the happiness of each is dependent on the happiness of everyone else within it - i loved that idea and i made it into part of me, it was a new way of thinking of it that changed how i felt about it.

    so I guess it's really all about how Ti and Fe interact together.

    Quote Originally Posted by Intricate Mystic View Post
    I hope I didn't come across as advocating hypocrisy as a stance. My concern is more in the realm of it being something INFJs might have a general tendancy toward and thus something they would have to be made aware of and work to overcome. (That's the case with me).
    no you didn't - you actually came off rocking the thread just for having said that...

    btw - in what way did your INFJ call you out on it? i mean, how did he express it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Intricate Mystic View Post
    Also, the issue of hypocrisy has been brought up by other ENTPs in relationships with INFJs that didn't work out. However, there are also ENTP-INFJ relationships in which both are quite happy. It would be interesting to explore the subject of hypocrisy with a successful pairing of these types to see if it's a problem for them (or not) and if so, how they manage it.
    I'm curious too..

    especially since i remember reading somewhere that both ENTPs and INFJs individually (not only within marriages to each other), are known for extremely high divorce rates... apparently if your an ENTP and reach 50 without being in your third or fourth marriage, your either really special or mistyped...

    Quote Originally Posted by Intricate Mystic View Post
    Overall, concerning you and your INFJ, it seems that you both feel disrespected right now with yours stemming from unfairness in the relationship and hers from your having discussed relationship issues with people you both know. I'm sure that was an easy mistake for you to have made- you were in a state of distress and needed to talk about it with others. I made this mistake myself when going through a divorce. It's one of the particularly awful aspects of relationship break-ups that the very people you instinctively go to for support (family and friends) can't really give objective help because they know both people involved and are thus emotionally affected by the situation themselves.
    honestly the way i see it is that I've done my mistake, acknowledged it, took responsibility for it, tried fixing it, explained to her the state i was under it, and she knows how rare it is for me to actually make such a mistake... and sadly i don't even expect her to do the same, it would absolutely shock me if she did, hell i still loved her even when i didn't think she could, she had many redeeming traits...

    but what i did expect her is to be able to understand where i was coming from, to actually acknowledge my perspective without devaluing it to her own liking and comfort level, remember who i am and who i was all this time, get over her hurt and respect the value of my relationship with my son for both me and him.

    but so far she has disappointed. I'm not closing the door on her, i am even curving the path so its easier for her to prove herself again to me, and she's not under any set deadline, but the reality is that at some point I'll be in other relationship, and if it becomes serious and i fall for another, i will be as emotionally unavailable to my ex-wife as i was to other women with her. on the other hand if it turns out she really mentally can't do this - that she never had those qualities without me bringing them out or without trying to impress me or whatever it was.. then i am sorry but she isn't the woman I wanted as the mother of my children beyond the one she came with - without those she's not who i see myself ending up with. in Yiddish its called being a 'mench'... basic humane curtsies in how you treat other people, and i would rather not have my children raised with justifications to not being that. but of course in that case it wouldn't matter because without those traits its unlikely she'd open the door for me in this respect in the first place.

    regardless, I'll still do anything i can for him, and any woman i'll be with will have to be able to respect that.

Similar Threads

  1. When any type other than INFJ doorslams you/cuts you out of their life
    By SilkRoad in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 46
    Last Post: 02-03-2014, 11:26 PM
  2. [INFJ] INFJ Daily Life: Plans, Strangers,etc?
    By plaminal in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 11-13-2011, 12:13 AM
  3. [MBTItm] INFJ negotiating mid-life
    By Immaculate Cloud in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 03-21-2009, 09:04 PM
  4. [INFJ] INFJ, inner life a little too rich?
    By littledarling in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 36
    Last Post: 02-18-2009, 02:23 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •