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  1. #661
    Diving into Ni-space Crescent Fresh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd Girl View Post
    Unfortunately, it's not an obvious sign and sounds more like a misunderstanding than a doorslam. I'm friendly and flirty, but it doesn't mean I'm feelin' anything more than a friendship. Actions are the best indicator.
    It is a misunderstanding but I was being lead on as he shares the most private issues with me and he enjoys close body contact which I didn't assume that it's common among common friends.

    However, i did feel I got doorslammed as he didn't need to cut me off completely as I did was to confess my feelings for him in the most genuine form. He not only stopped contacting me but also avoided any contact. I was literally shocked to find out all the long hours of chatting over the phone and spending special time together was a misread from him.

  2. #662
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    I find the thickness of the door and the firmness with which it slams is indirectly proportionate to the level of relationship potentiality>

    Meaning, acquaintance I meet once at a party or wherever and I know it would never work: The door of a safe; locked down.

    A close friend: a thick wooden door to a cottage in the woods in summer. It opens, it closes.

    A dear lover: A heavy revolving door. Might seem to close, but never really does.



    That is as a 43 year old INFJ. I think it's probably different than how I used to be.
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    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

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  3. #663
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    ok i admit it - i once doorslammed too.

    she was beautiful, auborn hair and strong long legs, so graceful in every way she moved, she was fast to react, she could leap over any bearier that stood in her way. she was a little wild, she didn't allow many to get close, only me and the one who took care of her as if she was his child. but like many of her kind, she was a single mother, and yet people who took the responsibility away from her, treated her as a slave, and took her baby too early, and she stopped trusting anyone, she didn't feel comfortable with others, she no longer wanted to go on long walks besides me or anyone, she wouldnt' let me brush her hair or shower her, and intimacy? forget about intimacy, she would welcome me for a moment but then as i got ontop of her, she'd turn on me and push me off with such an aggression that she used to physically hurt me. i tried and tried again and thought that was enough, but i was young, imature, and i took it too personally, i wasn't open to her perspective or what she was going through, i wasn't open to find out what was the story until much later, and she wasn't very good at communicating her reasons, so i said goodbye and doorslammed her.

  4. #664

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crescent Fresh View Post
    It is a misunderstanding but I was being lead on as he shares the most private issues with me and he enjoys close body contact which I didn't assume that it's common among common friends.

    However, i did feel I got doorslammed as he didn't need to cut me off completely as I did was to confess my feelings for him in the most genuine form. He not only stopped contacting me but also avoided any contact. I was literally shocked to find out all the long hours of chatting over the phone and spending special time together was a misread from him.
    Only posting based on your posts, it would appear that you were perhaps a back up plan or safety net for this person. You were given mixed signals. He flirted with you a lot for a while, but when someone else came along that he perhaps wanted to pursue more, he went that route. That is common in life. My response in those situations is to move away from interaction until you no longer have feelings for the person. You either misinterpreted innocent things, or this person gave you many mixed signals. Either way, you liked someone in a way they didn't like you. That happens to everyone.

    in the future, if you are good friends with someone for a long period and then your feelings change, I'd let the person know. If it all happens pretty quickly within a short time frame, then the decision is a little tougher to speak up. Initial stages of attraction often require patience, going with the flow, and let things naturally go in a direction. So it is a matter of not speaking too soon nor too late.

  5. #665

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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    There are a ton of sites that offer advice on how to deal with narcissists. There's also a book that has some good ideas for dealing with narcissists during a divorce so there is a chance at dividing property fairly. Can't remember the title, but you can probably find it through Amazon.
    Thanks. I actually have some life experience with narcissistic people. My dad was and is deeply narcissistic 3. His natural personality is 8w7 with heavy 3. I have struggled my whole life with them.

    My eldest sibling is a narcissist too, again. Hiding his true type. I am thankful everyday for my salt o the earth isfj 9 mom may she rest in peace.

    I have had some narcissistic friends too.

    In my experience many times narcissists can be the oldest or only child often, though not always.

    I've struggled with narcissists. In my current situation, the damage has already been done. It is very difficult to get a narcissist to go back and re-visit situations that require them to give up an advantage, or to compromise.

    If all things were equal, I'd walk away and the narcissist would either come back to negotiate or dismissively leave. Either would be fine. But I need her to take this deal to make my life easier.

    She is a 4 first and foremost, but she had some heavy 3 influence.

    The idea is to get her to think ok, it's over. Let's be rational and fair here.

    She is still hiding and lashing out occasional in short few words dismissively. I'm just seeking one sit down meeting. I'm confident I can bring up things and retrace her steps to get her to take the deal. But I cannot get the meeting or any communication. Completely non-responsive.

    I recognize the problem reading about narcissism. but I am looking for solutions as to how to get a non-responsive one to sit at the table and listen and exchange info.

    What I am seeking is not easy. But nothing is impossible.

  6. #666
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    Do you think it's possible that you have pattern of seeking out narcissists because it is a familiar dynamic to you, even if you don't like it? I don't know you well enough, but the thought just occurred to me that maybe this is why you have tried so hard to make this thing work, even though it seemed clearly doomed for quite some time. Some people believe that sometimes we seek out similar relationships to the primary ones we had earlier in life to try to make the ending different this time. I don't know if that's true or not, or if it's just that familiar seems secure, even if we intellectually understand it isn't, or if it's just a matter of needing to create stronger boundaries so that people can't take advantage. Because a narcissistic person is manipulative, it often can influence your own perception of self and whether you are worth standing up for. Narcissistic people are very good at distorting not just their own reality, but the reality of those around them so that it seems normal to accept behaviour that you normally would not. Just some food for thought.

  7. #667

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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    Do you think it's possible that you have pattern of seeking out narcissists because it is a familiar dynamic to you, even if you don't like it? I don't know you well enough, but the thought just occurred to me that maybe this is why you have tried so hard to make this thing work, even though it seemed clearly doomed for quite some time. Some people believe that sometimes we seek out similar relationships to the primary ones we had earlier in life to try to make the ending different this time. I don't know if that's true or not, or if it's just that familiar seems secure, even if we intellectually understand it isn't, or if it's just a matter of needing to create stronger boundaries so that people can't take advantage. Because a narcissistic person is manipulative, it often can influence your own perception of self and whether you are worth standing up for. Narcissistic people are very good at distorting not just their own reality, but the reality of those around them so that it seems normal to accept behaviour that you normally would not. Just some food for thought.
    Respectfully speaking, no, you are over thinking it.

    I wish I did not have any narcissists in my life. I avoid them. I have not spoken with my oldest brother in many years other than in urgent family situations. it was my choice. He likes me a lot and would like to be in my life. I have my reasons.

    I am loyal to my dad for putting food on the table and paying for my school. his lack of emotional support and encouragement was a big detriment to my life. he is older and has health problems. I am the only one capable of taking care of him so I reluctantly do so. he has his good moments, the short lasting and few and far between.

    I have a close daily relationship with my other family members.

    I have dated many people that were not narcissists. Most of my friends are not narcissistic nor close to it. I just said I do have some experience with it. In those cases, all are male and people I have known my whole life. Never female. Never dating. I would never want to date a narcissist.

    As I said my infj 4w3 used to be much healthier.

    In my case, her vision became more important than reality, boundaries, rules, people. She lost balance in that.

    Personally, I get along well with most types. I do have a tendency to struggle with Esfj mother hen types. I avoid them. I also avoid narcissistic 3's too.

    Interestingly enough my infj has had some Esfj mother hen type of friends, as have my former isfj girlfriends. Many times I had a problem with these types over stepping their boundaries and strangely competing with me for the attention and affection of the other person.

    Narcissists have no soul, hollow, no real feelings inside. That is a bit scary to know. low avg 3 to low 3. I would never seek that out. And in my case, my infj was always very loyal and open with me privately. She shared with me what she didn't with everyone else.

    Worry about resources and not pulling off her vision were factors. Her appetite for perfection and material things outgrew reality. I then became expendable. previously she was much more balanced, and very generous in all aspects of life with me.

    I can spot things easily now, narcissists, personality types. That wasn't the case for me until the past few years at most. I wish I studied and knew a lot more in the past.

    Also, I had slow developing intuition. I was much more of sensor type when much younger. I was that on the go estp/Esfp type when young. Now it is definitely more intuition first.

    So I used to just fall into relationships ans situations easily and quickly in those days.

    I would never seek out narcissists to date or for friendship. I didn't know what those were in the past. I'm stuck with a few. That's about it.

  8. #668
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    @BalanceFind - the canadian girl has a point - neither my exwife or my father where narcissists, but the pattern of me finding in her character strengths i admired and connected with in my father (may he rest in peace) where very prevelent... which extended to seen in her character traits that i am starting to doubt she ever had. i'm just saying, it can happen positively to me, there's no reason it can't happen negatively.

    but i am betting you don't want an analaysis, you want solutions. so this is my suggestion: give her a couple of months with no contact what so ever, in the mean time get advice from lawyers in your family (i'm assuming that's not just a jewish thing) or friends, and seek out contract-lawyers who will get the job as a whole rather then take money per consultation, so that if it gets to it, you have a wide selection to choose from and don't get rushed to go with the first representitve you find.

    then try again, no attacks, no demands, in fact don't even talk about the past at all for a few meetings with her. bring her to the point where she is open to your perspective again, when she relates to you again, and only then see what you can do about it.

    no idea if that would work - its advice i may have gotten a bit too late - but it might be worth a try.

  9. #669

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    Let me add something.

    Many of my longer lasting relationships began one of two ways:

    1) Accidentally where my intentions were not to date the person.
    2). The girl/woman approached me first

    The old saying about things happen when you are not looking has been very true in my life. Ehen you develop yourself, you gain confidence, and then you become happy with yourself and your life and you don't think about meeting someone. And then boom, you do, sometimes more than one. When you chase or search, it's a bad path, at least for me.

    I met my infj through work, client, not same place. She mistakenly thought I was interested in her. her co-workers reinforced this to her. I wasn't interested in her and I wasn't not interested in her. her coworkers approached me casually matter of factly and asked me when I was going to ask her out. I was surprised. I thought about it and I went with it. That was 9 years ago. It didn't last long. But we reconnected as friends multiple times years later. It's been everyday for over 3 years now until 6 months ago when she vanished.

  10. #670

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    @BalanceFind - the canadian girl has a point - neither my exwife or my father where narcissists, but the pattern of me finding in her character strengths i admired and connected with in my father (may he rest in peace) where very prevelent... which extended to seen in her character traits that i am starting to doubt she ever had. i'm just saying, it can happen positively to me, there's no reason it can't happen negatively.

    but i am betting you don't want an analaysis, you want solutions. so this is my suggestion: give her a couple of months with no contact what so ever, in the mean time get advice from lawyers in your family (i'm assuming that's not just a jewish thing) or friends, and seek out contract-lawyers who will get the job as a whole rather then take money per consultation, so that if it gets to it, you have a wide selection to choose from and don't get rushed to go with the first representitve you find.

    then try again, no attacks, no demands, in fact don't even talk about the past at all for a few meetings with her. bring her to the point where she is open to your perspective again, when she relates to you again, and only then see what you can do about it.

    no idea if that would work - its advice i may have gotten a bit too late - but it might be worth a try.
    My emotions are varied. Mostly impatient, frustrated, angry. But when I am having a good day, I will be better than that.

    My word is gold. I said I was seeking solutions here and that I was willing to help others here. All true.

    I've already done what you have suggested.

    The civil case could take years. I put a lien on the house. Bank then owns it. Bank sells house and pays itself and then I get paid, as long as I win. Our case is strong. Criminal fraud case is much faster but much more expensive too. Police knock on her door. The idea with lien or police is to cause her to jump up and take the deal. If not, we keep moving forward legally. I have 7 years to do it. I have to wait several months at minimum to take legal action because of my costs. I want and be to space that out more. In order to get my money I have to spend a lot of it on attorney's. I know the lump costs of both. it's a lot.

    So I don't have the leverage I want. She doesn't know that. I have been appealing to her values to accept a quality compromise. Nothing. When the legal situation and costs progress is when it will get ugly.

    My deal is new for her. My lawyers contacting her was new for her. She was very defiant to my lawyers initially. Making a deal with me will decrease her assets, and her cash flow. That is one of her big sticking points. It is more than fair for her, But she wants it all so she doesn't have to have her financial situation get tighter. It is very difficult to get her to give up a big asset. she is already living in the house.
    She doesn't want to give anything up. No compromise.

    I don't know percentages why. Punishing me for hurt feelings, greed, narcissism. I gave her 6 months. Nothing but empty promisws that I would get my money, never saying how. Now she has a real deal in front of her. It has been a month. Nothing. It is our only deal. She rejected it quickly. I am hoping that she will change her mind on the deal. So basically I am trying to get her to take a specific deal and nothing else.

    Getting her to meet in person in front of a 3rd party is what I really want. I am confident in my self that I may get her to do it. I don't think anyone else can.

    She continues to not respond to phone calls and emails from me , her attorney, my attorneys, friends, no one. She doesn't really have an attorney because she doesn't want to pay an attorney.

    She is calling our bluff right now. I don't have another card to play. I will have to wait only because of costs. Then out of the blue many months later, she will surprisingly hear from attorneys and or police.

    Time is what matters to me. I am trying to get this do w now, 6 months ago. It is either a deal now, or a long wait for me to give the go ahead for more legal action.

    I am just trying to get her to be calm and rational. he thinks everyone is attacking her. Well when you disappear for 6 months and not respond to repeated kind support, that happens. When she gets space, she takes it and runs farther away. When pressured she is short and defiant. I don't have any confidence that she will respond well to more space.

    She knows I deserve this money. But her entire focus is herself. I am not successfully trying to get her to take the focus off of herself. I've tried all types of approaches.

    She has simply vanished. Waiting for her has been very financially costly and stressful. It has also changed my life dramatically. I was all set to move in there. Now I have no house there and less money.

    Waiting more isn't on my to do list.

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