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  1. #631
    A window to the soul
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    @Mane, My little sister is INFJ; I feel your pain. I find cold hard cash works to soften them up and get a toe in the door.

  2. #632
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd Girl View Post
    @Mane , My little sister is INFJ; I feel your pain. I find cold hard cash works to soften them up.
    rofl...

    the funny thing is it, i want too, not directly to her, but regardless if it would calm her down or not - even if i don't get to se him again - i want to make sure he doesn't get stuck in student loans for his entire life like everyone else in canada. if i could figure out a way to send money to my son's RESP fund without the impossible task of getting the details from her, i'd at least know that i am doing something to make his life better, even if it's not as much as i want too.

  3. #633
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    ^ I think too many INFJ's do not assert proper boundaries from the get-go, and therefore it can often be far down the road when they begin assering them: after the other person has become accustomed to the earlier dynamic built. I could see how it would easily confuse the other person in this case...if they don't see other sides of the INFJ until later on. The other sides are then probably viewed as 'unhealthy', when reality if the INFJ had had a better sense of self from the get-go, and a healthy balance of all sides, it wouldn't come as any surprise when these other sides emerge - since they were there from the beginning. So I think it behooves all INFJ's to not be waaaay too accommodating in the beginning. Any stepping back and reassessing of a dynamic far after the fact, that has become comfortable to the other, is going to be a rude awakening to the other.
    Somehow I missed this earlier, but that sums it up for me! While you can get an INFJ to stuff their feelings, overaccommodate or acquiese for awhile, sooner or later once they are sure they are not insane for having the feelings they do, they will try to right the balance of it all. I agree that often this is at a stage where it is rather hard to change the dynamic and it also is a little unfair to the other person, particularly if those resentments haven't been voiced.

    As I have hit my late 20s and moreso my thirties, I have found I am much more able to assert boundaries earlier on and therefore don't get to that stage of frustration where it's necessary to disengage nearly as often. I do have to really consciously be aware of my own tendancies though or else it's easy to fall into old patterns, particularly because most of the people I've been romantically involved with or are friends with are take chargey, extroverted people (usually first borns or only children!).

    I don't like emotional surprises, and until I can be sure of what to expect, I tend to suck up most of the inconvenience or frustration because that bothers me less than unpredictable emotional fallout does. I have to really be aware that what I am doing actually can be frustrating or inconvenience others, as well as build up resentment on my part over time that is difficult to repair as easily.

    I also am hypersensitive about seeming irrational. I have difficulty articulating the situation right in the moment, and so hate to call someone on something until I have had some time to think. Then, it seems petty to bring up, but the frustration isn't altogether diminished. It usually is fine as long as things are going well, but if something else occurs which confirms the previous pattern, all of those former events come rushing back and I feel taken for granted or decide something needs to change, which can be bewildering for the recipient.

    Don't know if any of that is useful. I don't have enough details to say much about Mane's situation. In BalanceFind's, I think it seems apparent that this behaviour is outside the bounds of being explainable by MBTI alone. That dynamic of the INFJ suddenly getting their back up and trying to change things around may be a part of the equation in both situations, but I doubt that is all that is going on.

  4. #634
    A window to the soul
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    rofl...

    the funny thing is it, i want too, not directly to her, but regardless if it would calm her down or not - even if i don't get to se him again - i want to make sure he doesn't get stuck in student loans for his entire life like everyone else in canada. if i could figure out a way to send money to my son's RESP fund without the impossible task of getting the details from her, i'd at least know that i am doing something to make his life better, even if it's not as much as i want too.
    That sounds thoughtful. With incentives, my sister will work with me, admit her faults, and even forgive.

  5. #635
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    @Mane, do you think there is a chance that your INFJ didn't feel heard by you?
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    I DOORSLAMMING

  6. #636

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    My infj made errors of fact. The problem is by door slamming, she doesn't allow herself access to all pertinent information to make quality decisions in her daily life. When a long period of time goes by, I am forced by her inaction, to take legal action against her, thus confirming her wrong and negative suspicions in the first place.

    I now get to be the bad guy according to her. At first, there were no reasons to back up those false assertions. Now I get to be the bad guy who is taking legal action against her because she sat there for 6 months and did nothing.

    While an infj is sorting out emotions and feelings, the real world doesn't stop.

    Taking the emphasis off of yourself is how it improves and gets better. My actions for example have always been about both sides. I see both sides, always. And I am coming up with win/win solutions for both sides. But she is lost in a world of self absorbed feelings. She has lost all touch with reality.

    When big things are left on the table, you don't get to hide and talk about feelings and nothing else.

    Self sabotage, and portraying it as if she was some sort of victim. She wasn't a victim. I am the only victim in my situation. The longer it goes, the less empathy and sympathy I have for her. It's entirely about me getting my money back, and because I'm pretty reasonably healthy, I'm not interested in anything else negative. Her isolation and defiance, the length of time has allowed me to be less and less interested in her feelings to the point where they are not important to me. They were at the beginning and for a while. It's a get me my stuff so I can get out situation. I won't punish you any more than that if you cooperate.

    She doesn't talk to anyone anymore. All of her interactions with people now, are new people, or fake ones with surface level old acquaintances.

    It is if her head is under a pillow and she is hoping magically it will all go away and it won't.

  7. #637
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Your situation for some reason doesn't strike me as irredeemable as BalanceFind's ...

    So, what happened?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    that she doesn't give a crap about what she put me through
    What did she put you through?

    or the conditions which lead me to do what lead to the finale doorslam
    What did you do?

    she won't ever face the fact that she has done to me the same things she judges me for so many times before and yet that doesn't mean either one of us is particularly unworthy just freaking human.
    Explain.


    so here i am wearing my theory and puffing my chest shouting come and crack it down - show me that i am wrong, i'm calling you out on the worst possible framing of what you people do on a regular basis, now come and kick it with rational arguments i can actually use to sooth that fear.
    Well, what is your theory, exactly? Can you spell it out? INFJ's will doorslam sometimes, and as a subset of that, sometimes it will be patently irrational, despite all best evidence available for them to examine to the contrary. I can't tell you that this is wrong - it's true.

    Plus there are just healthy and unhealthy aspects of all people, never mind mbti types, and you are not going to get rational no matter what you do.

    So I can't soothe that fear, but I can send you a to show I hear how much you are hurting here.

    and instead? you freaking portrary it, aspect by aspect, proving how my theory applies becomes easier with every INFJ post. even Z Buck McFate, who seemingly is the only one here capable of admiting to any faults in INFJ character, can never seem to do so without an 'except me' clause.
    Your words and behaviour though are provoking this response, can you feel it? Can you step back a bit and see it? A different tone will yield an alternate response.

    Online it can be even harder without all the other feelery data to process, but you are ironically creating the very thing you wish to avoid here! And, I can't say I blame them for finding you ... irritating - no offense intended to you though, saying that.

    someone show me that her being an INFJ doesn't prove that when i saw those in my wife i was delusional! and if i wasn't delusional, where the fuck are they now?
    How much space are you giving her? How much time? Can you share more details?

    Without them, the advice I have for you is to stop taking out your frustrations on the INFJ's here - they cannot help you unless you take an alternate approach.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  8. #638
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Plus, this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    if i could figure out a way to send money to my son's RESP fund without the impossible task of getting the details from her, i'd at least know that i am doing something to make his life better, even if it's not as much as i want too.
    You don't need to contribute to an existing one. Start a new one. If he has a social insurance # you also are eligible for the Canada Education Savings Grant.

    More info: http://www.hrsdc.gc.ca/eng/learning/...lic/cesg.shtml
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  9. #639
    lurking Rasofy's Avatar
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    A wild INFJ appears.

    ENTP, go!

    ENTP uses sexual puns.

    It's very effective!

    INFJ uses ego stroke.

    It's very effective!

    ENTP uses logic.

    It's not very effective.

    INFJ uses DOORSLAM.

    ENTP is confused.

    He hurt himself in his confusion.
    -----------------

    A man builds. A parasite asks 'Where is my share?'
    A man creates. A parasite says, 'What will the neighbors think?'
    A man invents. A parasite says, 'Watch out, or you might tread on the toes of God... '


    -----------------

  10. #640

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasofy View Post
    A wild INFJ appears.

    ENTP, go!

    ENTP uses sexual puns.

    It's very effective!

    INFJ uses ego stroke.

    It's very effective!

    ENTP uses logic.

    It's not very effective.

    INFJ uses DOORSLAM.

    ENTP is confused.

    He hurt himself in his confusion.
    To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, be nothing.
    ~ Elbert Hubbard

    Music provides one of the clearest examples of a much deeper relation between mathematics and human experience.

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