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  1. #451
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    Well...

    If you think it is best to keep every piece of human dead weight around in your life, or to work at relationships which are draining and painful and show every sign of being doomed to failure, that is certainly your choice.

    But I don't think you will convince a lot of INFJs - or in fact, a lot of people of many/every other type - that this is necessarily the best way to move through life.
    like i said:

    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    as for @SlkRoad's question: no, most relationship for me are an organic process, they grow, they prosper, and sometimes they fade. the ones i work on are the ones i am commited too, and they are very few, and generally mean the person is important to me - and in those cases, loyalty isn't an affort for me, its part of who i am. so no, i never need to doorslam.
    i guess the mention doesn't work without a space in the end..

  2. #452
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    I'd like to draw...anyone's...attention to this thread I started quite a long time ago: http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...ad.php?t=25067

    It's about cutting people out of your life, which in many/most cases equates to a "doorslam". Many types weighed in. Many people do this, for one reason or another, in one way or another. There have been other similar threads started by various types.

    It is not INFJ-exclusive. It can also involve a great many different scenarios and play out in a great many different ways. I'd like just to point that out.
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  3. #453
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    I wanted to respond to those who had replied to me after my update, and anyone else interested.

    I was very upfront. I came here for selfish reasons to help myself in an immediate emergency situation. As an Entp/Enfp Enneagram 8 both wings. When I was much younger I was a 7. That is my background. I learn from combo of independent solo study, combined with discussion, of sharing, and listening. I also offered to help anyone else too.

    I believe or anyone else has equal right to be here as long as people post on topic in good respectful fashion.

    I posted about an unhealthy infj 4w3. Some rushed to the defense of all infj's everywhere. Some were more objective, some didn't respond. Any type can become unhealthy. I came to solve my problem.

    In my situation it happened so fast, her slide into the grip of low developed Estp. It was highly unusual. I was door slammed for inaccurate reasons. My infj has admitted as such. However, the door slam continued. It continued in my case because of her embarrassment at being way wrong and way off base. Extreme stress caused extreme self indulgence. This caused her financial problems, and she chose self-preservation of an overly narrow-minded self indulgent vision over honesty. Once she had gone too far she then began to lie, cover up and try to turn others against me.

    I showed patience, restraint, compassion. But at some point reality has to set in, and it never did for her. She has never stopped hiding, has never stopped running away from reality. Her feelings as important as they are, are not more important or even as important as basic financial reality and responsibility.

    This person has the ability to take 5 minutes to sign a piece of paper that helps everyone and make the problem go away. She has never done so.

    She happens to be an infj 4w3. She isn't all infj's. She is one. But, she is an unhealthy infj, and some of those exist, as they do exist in other types.

    In my experience this door slam is unique in that with other types there seems to be more discussion, warning, closure. I had not been door slammed before.

    I previously knew other infj 4w3 types. I dated more isfj9 types. But I have felt much more compatible with the intuition of the infj.

    As a problem solver, it is difficult to watch a formerly really good person, throw everything away and sabotage oneself and not stop despite endless offers of help, empathy, and sympathy.

    In my situation 10 minutes of in person discussion could have prevented a lifetime of problems.

  4. #454
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    It is not INFJ-exclusive. It can also involve a great many different scenarios and play out in a great many different ways. I'd like just to point that out.
    i doubt anything is type's exclusive. it's just a matter of tendecies and how common it is.

  5. #455
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    also: while i don't know about "most" - haven't done the statistics – [/b]i can tell you with certainty that not all INFJs judge a line of reasoning or theory based on the credibility of it's source[/b], and not only there are INFJs who are not only capable of recognizing an ad hominem as a logic fallacy, but there are INFJs who are confident enough about their own intelect & Ti to judge a line of reasoning or theory based on it's own merits and avoid the insecurity, and thus not tend to fall for the fallacy to began with. MBTI should be used as a tool for understanding, not as a cruch to lay our weak points on loral leaves.

    This makes me think you're hearing something *extra* when we say ‘we consider the source’. Just like it made me think you’ve been hearing a little something *extra* in everything you’ve read here if you really think some of these responses are like we’re “high fiving” each other over doorslamming anyone. (I ask again- can you point a single post where someone is high fiving another person here?)

    Everyone judges credibility by the source- and IxxJs do this a lot more than ExxPs. Honestly, show me an INFJ who doesn’t put more weight on ‘source’ than the average person and I’ll show you someone who isn’t INFJ. If you disagree- then it’s probably far, far more a matter of you not understanding what is meant ‘consider the source’ then it is of you knowing INFJs who don’t “judge a line of reasoning or theory based on the credibility of the source" because seriously.....this is just what we do. To reiterate: it’s not about how much credibility a person has with others, it’s how much a person has directly demonstrated understanding the meaning they are trying to convey. Even the INFJs I’ve known who are hypocritical- and seemingly impervious to the mixed signals they send out themselves- are still incredibly sensitive to mixed signals coming from another person. Too many mixed signals = information is too confusing and can’t be used. Seriously, anyone who does not have this problem is probably not an INFJ.

    Just the very fact that you have mentioned- a couple of times over- perceiving us as having delighted in doorslamming makes your ‘insight’ into why we do it questionable. It may not even be your intentions which seems questionable, it's your understanding of what you're talking about. There are quite a few things, in what you’ve said, that indicate you don’t understand where we’re coming from- all while explaining you know where we’re coming from. I’d break it down right now and give you specific examples (I’m not trying to be antagonistic here) but I don’t have time just now. Maybe later.
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  6. #456
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    This makes me think you're hearing something *extra* when we say ‘we consider the source’. Just like it made me think you’ve been hearing a little something *extra* in everything you’ve read here if you really think some of these responses are like we’re “high fiving” each other over doorslamming anyone. (I ask again- can you point a single post where someone is high fiving another person here?)
    I have to comment here...because I was laughing so hard the other day when you quoted that bit Mane posted about 'high-fiving'...and you were like 'Seriously?' (Oh man that gave me a good laugh). BUT I do have to defend Mane here and say...that yes, I have read 'Doorslamming' threads....not this one...but there is one here on this site (I'll see if I can locate it later)...and many on Personality Cafe...where the INFJs truly are giving each other pats-on-the-back for having 'doorslammed someone's ass' (etc.) haha.

    I think it is just suffering though...you know? Like when you have been hurt very badly and you finally take a stand...and then others are relating to you...standing-up for you. That's what I believe it is about.

    But no...the reason I came and stayed at TypoC...is because of the quality of people and the fact that everyone seems intent on learning about each other in a respectful way.

  7. #457
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    I have to comment here...because I was laughing so hard the other day when you quoted that bit Mane posted about 'high-fiving'...and you were like 'Seriously?' (Oh man that gave me a good laugh). BUT I do have to defend Mane here and say...that yes, I have read 'Doorslamming' threads....not this one...but there is one here on this site (I'll see if I can locate it later)...and many on Personality Cafe...where the INFJs truly are giving each other pats-on-the-back for having 'doorslammed someone's ass' (etc.) haha.

    I think it is just suffering though...you know? Like when you have been hurt very badly and you finally take a stand...and then others are relating to you...standing-up for you. That's what I believe it is about.

    But no...there reason I came and stayed at TypoC...is because of the quality of people and the fact that everyone seems intent on learning about each other in a respectful way.

    Yes, you have a point about those. I've also seen the threads containing quotes such as "OMG! I'm totally an INFJ and I like totally doorslam people all the time! Like my friend totally pissed me off the other day so I totally doorslammed her! LOLZ!!!!"

    I'm never quite sure what to make of those. I think they're just very young and immature, basically, regardless of type. Some may be INFJs, some not.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    Yes, you have a point about those. I've also seen the threads containing quotes such as "OMG! I'm totally an INFJ and I like totally doorslam people all the time! Like my friend totally pissed me off the other day so I totally doorslammed her! LOLZ!!!!"

    I'm never quite sure what to make of those. I think they're just very young and immature, basically, regardless of type. Some may be INFJs, some not.
    Haha...now you're cracking me up SilkRoad! Yah...haha...I made the mistake of going to PerC when I first found myself in this situation...and that was a huge mistake (thank god no one knows who I am if they read this). I laugh because when you are reading those threads you are like...'what the hell?' haha. I completely agree that there are some maturity issues there...and no...I do not feel all of those INFJs are INFJs. All I can say is that I am so glad I found this place!

    Uff...the way I write is so terrible (writing mistake twice)...but I'm not going to edit.

  9. #459
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    I just posted here but my post seems to have disappeared. Anyway, I came here to help my situation. I thought going to both infj's and non-infj's alike would be productive. I thought that healthy, average, and low functioning infj's and non-infj's would provide some objective and non-objective interaction. And, that is what I received. It won't help me in this situation unfortunately, but it will in the future.

  10. #460
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    BUT I do have to defend Mane here and say...that yes, I have read 'Doorslamming' threads....not this one...but there is one here on this site (I'll see if I can locate it later)...and many on Personality Cafe...where the INFJs truly are giving each other pats-on-the-back for having 'doorslammed someone's ass' (etc.) haha.

    I think it is just suffering though...you know? Like when you have been hurt very badly and you finally take a stand...and then others are relating to you...standing-up for you. That's what I believe it is about.
    Okay, I don't think I've even read this thread in it's entirety- let alone anything on per c- so thank you for this point. I just know there's a pattern in this thread, and really this whole doorslam topic, for someone to show up and project their own experience into what they're hearing (so when we say "we had to cut them off"- the other person instantly perceives a world of selfishness in it and scans for some flaw in OUR judgement instead of considering how it might be true) and frankly I think we might project some previous hurt/exhaustion into the arguments we're hearing as well (because the last time we heard them, someone was explaining why they feel entitled to our our time, energy, attention, etc, beyond what's reasonable- and having someone scan our words/logic for some flaw which 'proves' they are entitled to EVEN MOAR attention/energy/affection/whatever is a real trigger.....at least for me it is).


    I think it really comes down to entitlement. Sometimes people with an inflated sense of entitlement won’t listen, they’ll take anything I say and impulsively turn it into an argument in their own favor. There’s no reasoning with them. It isn’t possible to *make* them understand- since they feel entitled to take whatever energy or attention from me they want- they’ll keep impulsively arguing against everything I say. There are people who feel entitled to my time, energy, attention, affection, etc. without feeling obligated to make sure they are giving as much as they are taking. I’m going to guess there’s a misunderstanding going on when mane says it’s never acceptable to write someone off- because to suggest we owe it to everyone to keep dealing with them until they find resolution is completely asinine. There *are* a lot of people who won’t ‘find resolution’ until they get whatever it is they feel they are entitled to- and there *are* people who feel entitled to far more than they are willing to dish out. I can GUARANTEE I’ve never doorslammed someone who has put due thought into what they are entitled to. And truth be told, if I should ever become so blind to my own sense of entitlement that I’m causing another person grief- I would actually prefer they doorslam me rather than continue to be a victim of me draining their resources.

    [edit:] And @BalanceFind, I'm really not sure if there's any advice we could have given you. I mean what you describe doesn't sound like a sane 'doorslam', and when someone becomes completely unreasonable like that- well, there's no way to reason with them. There's no reasoning with crazy, as unfortunate as that is.
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