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Thread: When an INFJ doorslams you / cuts you out of their life / breaks off contact

  1. #441
    Iron Maiden Array fidelia's Avatar
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    Mane, it seems to me that it is right to make sure that the most important relationships in your life are overall equitable and that there is trust and vulnerability there. This is a part of self-care and ensures that my resources are not so depleted by one person that I have nothing left to take care of myself or the other people I'm responsible for. When one person consistently is only the provider or only the giver, but it is not a parent-child type of relationship with the attending roles that come with that, it creates an unhealthy dynamic with an imbalance of power. I am very much in favour of talking and working things out with people whenever possible. There are times though, that the relationship has reached a point where this is no longer possible. In many of these cases, measures should have been taken earlier on in the relationship to prevent the place it has gotten to, but in the event that those measures weren't taken, there are some times when trust is no longer regainable, or where the dynamic is way too one-sided to right itself.

    In those cases, I think the best people can do is move on and extract what they have learned to guide them in future interactions. For me, I've learned to recognize selfish behaviour earlier on and avoid allowing those particular people into my inner circle. I also have realized that men and women can be friends, but that the relationship can never remain static, so it is unlikely that they can freeze the relationship at a good point of closeness. I am better at defining and conveying boundaries than I used to be, and I also have started to understand the need to maintain a larger circle of people in my life, so that my perspective cannot be impacted as seriously by just one person. I've learned to be more up front about my needs and more direct when I feel that something wrong has happened, even if I cannot yet articulate it as perfectly as I'd like.

    My sister just got out of a terrible marriage. At this point, there is nothing left to discuss with this man, even though it is plain to see what made him into the person he is right now. His character and habits are such that he is not a safe person to spend time with or be associated with financially. Therefore, at this point, the best thing she can do is cut off contact so that she can start making changes in her life to meet her family's needs appropriately.

  2. #442
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    I stop taking others' feelings into account AFTER they've hurt mine badly enough for repair to be difficult
    so, if i ask them, after they've had time and space for introspection, they will tell me that they have done so to you - within a vacum? that within the relationship and resulting circumstances, within their interaction with you, nothing has done so? or maybe they'll say that it's all their baggage fault?

  3. #443
    Vulnerability Array Eilonwy's Avatar
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    @Mane, are you taking your own personal hurt and projecting it onto the INFJs here who will listen to you and respond, since it seems from what you've said that the INFJ that you care deeply about won't hear you out?

    I am sorry that you're hurting so badly, but I'm not the INFJ you have an issue with. And since you don't know me and I don't know you, there's not much point in telling each other how to behave. I can't make up for what your INFJ did.

    Actually, this applies to @BalanceFind, too.
    Johari / Nohari

    “That we are capable only of being what we are remains our unforgivable sin.” ― Gene Wolfe

    reminder to self: "That YOU that you are so proud of is a story woven together by your interpreter module to account for as much of your behavior as it can incorporate, and it denies or rationalizes the rest." "Who's in Charge? Free Will and the Science of the Brain" by Michael S. Gazzaniga

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eilonwy View Post
    @Mane, are you taking your own personal hurt and projecting it onto the INFJs here who will listen to you and respond, since it seems from what you've said that the INFJ that you care deeply about won't hear you out?
    nope, in my earlier post here i came up with two seperate realizations - one personal (wanting to be heard - by her) and one intelectual (the consequances of stress) - and trust me that on the first i have acted on very directly, and not within the forums.

  5. #445
    Diving into Ni-space Array Crescent Fresh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    so far the shortest time period i've heard that taking for an INFJ to come full circle on their own and deeply regret a doorslam is 15 years, and that was an extremely healthy one. the longest i've heard was 28 years. i'm sure for many it's longer.

    they never get them back.

    I really don't get this. What does time have to do with it? Even though I still think you given examples are out of extremity, there are many crucial factors that resulted in doorslamming and you just seem to put them all in the same bucket.

    Every type are capable of doorslamming. Some do it out of betrayal or anger, others do it out of hurt or toxic. There are just so many variables that lead one to doorslam the other and it really based on one's ethcial standards.

    I have done and realized the act of doorslamming can be quite dauntingly cruel one, but sometimes it's for the sake of our mental health--for us to move on, or for others not to waste additional time in a meaningless relationship.

    Apart from those who doorslam for selfish reasons (For example, my ENTJ and ISFP bff doorslammed a ESTP friend because they felt she's being flakey. Even though she has been like that from day one, they just no longer want to tolerate her), I think you need to realize that usually doorslamming is the last option for many INFJs. And more so than often we've been being pushed around too far. I know quite a few mentally and physically abusive men who still have no idea why their ex doorslammed them.

    When you mentioned about locking communicaiton without listening to what others have to say, I think that's the sign when an INFJ had given up on someone after giving them too many chances. Perhaps you may not noticed this as I think INFJ tend to not express their disappointment strongly but just through observing. So it is unfair to assume that blocking communication is an selfish act--as far as I know, it usually takes a lenghty time for an INFJ to do this to someone close to them.

  6. #446
    Vulnerability Array Eilonwy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    nope, in my earlier post here i came up with two seperate realizations - one personal (wanting to be heard - by her) and one intelectual (the consequances of stress) - and trust me that on the first i have acted on very directly, and not within the forums.
    Then I'm not sure what you want from the INFJs on the forum. Or rather, since I can't speak for every INFJ on this forum, I'm not sure what you would want from me. Are you giving me advice based on your experience? If you are, then it was unsolicited advice and I don't tend to take unsolicited advice from strangers since they don't know my situation. If you want me to admit that I make mistakes and have faults, well, that's something that applies to every human being so I don't understand why my mistakes and faults are any worse than anyone else's or why I should answer for them here rather than IRL with the people I've wronged. If you're trying to make me aware of a fault that you think I have that I'm unaware of, then that is too far out there for me. You don't know me and what my faults may be. And instead of helping me be more self-aware, you are making me feel attacked, which I don't think you mean to do.

    I'm just not sure what your point is, or BalanceFind's either. I'm not the one doing the things you're describing. And if I do those things and am unaware of it, then you and BalanceFind aren't the best people to try to point that out to me because neither of you know me. It's too general. You don't know the specifics of my relationships and whether I'm acting the way you describe or not. The people I've had relationships with haven't been you. They may not have done what you did, reacted like you did, taken what I did the same way you might. So, I just don't get what kind of response you're looking for here in this thread.

    If I promise you that I will never, ever cut someone out of my life completely; that I will consider their feelings whether I'm in a healthy state of mind or not; that I will try my best to not be cruel to another person ever again--what good will that do? Is that what you're looking for? I really don't get the point.

    If you're hurt and looking for sympathy, that I can understand and can do, because it does seem to me that you're hurting, but otherwise, I don't know how to respond.
    Johari / Nohari

    “That we are capable only of being what we are remains our unforgivable sin.” ― Gene Wolfe

    reminder to self: "That YOU that you are so proud of is a story woven together by your interpreter module to account for as much of your behavior as it can incorporate, and it denies or rationalizes the rest." "Who's in Charge? Free Will and the Science of the Brain" by Michael S. Gazzaniga

  7. #447
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    look, your right:

    i was projecting, just in a somewhat different way. see, i know that if i ever suspected i might snap on my loved ones at some point in a way which - according to people who have expeirenced the sort of behavior - was found to be abusive, i wouldn't be saying to myself "me? i've done it only X times and each case was uniquely their fault". i would stay away and work on myself like there's no tommorow, using any tool that might work. but that's me.

    as for @SlkRoad's question: no, most relationship for me are an organic process, they grow, they prosper, and sometimes they fade. the ones i work on are the ones i am commited too, and they are very few, and generally mean the person is important to me - and in those cases, loyalty isn't an affort for me, its part of who i am. so no, i never need to doorslam.

    also: while i don't know about "most" - haven't done the statistics - i can tell you with certainty that not all INFJs judge a line of reasoning or theory based on the credibility of it's source, and not only there are INFJs who are not only capable of recognizing an ad hominem as a logic fallacy, but there are INFJs who are confident enough about their own intelect & Ti to judge a line of reasoning or theory based on it's own merits and avoid the insecurity, and thus not tend to fall for the fallacy to began with. MBTI should be used as a tool for understanding, not as a cruch to lay our weak points on loral leaves.

  8. #448
    Iron Maiden Array fidelia's Avatar
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    Perhaps what you are witnessing is the difference between J and P. I've noticed that J types tend to need a sense of closure in their relationships and plan out where they see the relationship going more than a lot of P types who are more likely to see what happens. Of course that's a generalization and I'm sure there are exceptions, but it may be one of the differences you are feeling.

    I'm not sure why you are beating a dead horse here. The more you argue your point with INFJs in this thread, the less they are buying what you are trying to push. You refuse to concede any ground or consider that YOU might be mistaken in your assessment. Therefore, to many of us, your conclusions just seem unfounded and unreliable because you have started from a false premise.

    Several people ahve already asked - What is your goal? If it's education, you are not doing it effectively. If it's sympathy, you need to make that clear. If you are just looking for a soapbox, this isn't it. In my world, I don't express much without having some sort of intended outcome. Maybe it is different for you, but if that's the case, you may have to clarify that, because the people in this thread generally are starting from the belief that you do have some intent for sharing this.

  9. #449
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    What is your goal?
    basically: while browsing the posts i recognized a pattern and came up with potential insight towards the nature of the doorslam. out of the INFJs i've known well enough (3 that i know about, 1 suspected), most seem to enjoy it in the name of personal growth. so i've brought it up openly and asked questions to see if it applies, so far it seems to do. its possible that it was the nature of the relationships that allowed them to do so, but at least two of those are able to recognize ad hominems and at least one of them is intelectually confident enough to avoid falling for it (the one i married), so i had no reason to suspect that it was "a matter of source credibility". which is why i didn't expect a group defensive reaction. but now i suspect that a main reason is that it was in one on one interaction with mature INFJs who behaved as indeviduals rather then teaming up under a tag defined by personal characteristics and collectively shouting "we're all indeviduals" against an extrapolation of those personal characteristics they teamed up under.this will sound judgemental because it is, but as my favorite INFJ says, " everyone judges".

    my main conclusion from what i've seen so far?
    gods i had no idea how lucky i was.

    one has to wonder, how did doctor who and jesus make it work...

  10. #450
    Lay the coin on my tongue Array SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    basically: while browsing the posts i recognized a pattern and came up with potential insight towards the nature of the doorslam. out of the INFJs i've known well enough (3 that i know about, 1 suspected), most seem to enjoy it in the name of personal growth. so i've brought it up openly and asked questions to see if it applies, so far it seems to do. its possible that it was the nature of the relationships that allowed them to do so, but at least two of those are able to recognize ad hominems and at least one of them is intelectually confident enough to avoid falling for it (the one i married), so i had no reason to suspect that it was "a matter of source credibility". which is why i didn't expect a group defensive reaction. but now i suspect that a main reason is that it was in one on one interaction with mature INFJs who behaved as indeviduals rather then teaming up under a tag defined by personal characteristics and collectively shouting "we're all indeviduals" against an extrapolation of those personal characteristics they teamed up under.this will sound judgemental because it is, but as my favorite INFJ says, " everyone judges".

    my main conclusion from what i've seen so far?
    gods i had no idea how lucky i was.

    one has to wonder, how did doctor who and jesus make it work...
    Well...

    If you think it is best to keep every piece of human dead weight around in your life, or to work forever at relationships which are draining and painful and show every sign of being doomed to failure, that is certainly your choice.

    But I don't think you will convince a lot of INFJs - or in fact, a lot of people of many/every other type - that this is necessarily the best way to move through life.
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    I DOORSLAMMING

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