User Tag List

Page 44 of 170 FirstFirst ... 3442434445465494144 ... LastLast
Results 431 to 440 of 1696

Thread: When an INFJ doorslams you / cuts you out of their life / breaks off contact

  1. #431
    Lay the coin on my tongue Array SilkRoad's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    6w5 sp/sx
    Posts
    3,939

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    You know this door slam thing. I have thought this every time I've seen this thread. I don't think this door slam behavior is limited to INFJs in any manner, shape or form.
    I agree with that. Actually, I think INFJs are just a lot more transparent and open about it than many others...and perhaps less likely to let others back in.

    People have occasionally said or implied to me that I sound cold when I talk about having removed a few people from my life. I'm sure I sound that way and maybe it kind of is. However, if they scrutinized their own lives they might realised that they've used and dropped friends, broken lots of promises, etc...they're just unlikely to come out and say "yes, I admit that I've shut people out of my life, used people and broken promises."
    Female
    INFJ
    Enneagram 6w5 sp/sx


    I DOORSLAMMING

  2. #432
    Lay the coin on my tongue Array SilkRoad's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    6w5 sp/sx
    Posts
    3,939

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    You have not checked whether or not the INFJs you are addressing do what you say your ex has done to you. Therefore, it is not about willingness to listen to advice generally. It is that you have proven yourself to be an unreliable source of advice, and the more you insist that you can fix all of the INFJ shortcomings in the world, the more resistant you continue to render your INFJ audience.

    You don't appear to see them as anything but a homogenous group, and Ti thinking that feels this starting premise is flawed therefore would discount any further conclusions you have to offer. If your starting premise is inaccurate, your conclusions will also be.

    Second of all, you actually have to convince your audience that there is a problem with them to begin with before you start to offer them a solution. They are not your girlfriend, and come to the table with varied ages, experiences, philosophical systems, relationship statuses and so on. It seems to me that your sample group is too small to be entirely reliable. For example, while some behaviours in my ex-ESTJ were typical of ESTJs, others were not. Still others were made more extreme because I didn't fully understand where he was coming from and reacted using my normal starting premises, which were different than his. Of course there were misunderstandings because despite seeing the same thing, we both interpreted in the light of our starting premises, which were quite different. Spending time on this site has helped me to sort through what parts were more generalizable, and which ones were more specific to our own unique circumstances and ourselves as individuals.

    Third, most INFJs will not take well to epithets of closed minded stubbornness, when that simply isn't the case. They just may not choose to take YOUR advice if it doesn't appear to have validity and they don't trust the source as a reliable one.
    All of this...and also, it seems as though whatever is said in response by INFJs in this thread, it gets a reiteration of the same lecture, almost verbatim...it's very much as though the people who are lecturing are not listening. Very one-sided.
    Female
    INFJ
    Enneagram 6w5 sp/sx


    I DOORSLAMMING

  3. #433
    Society
    Guest

    Default

    you just argued in support of ad hominems?

    anyway, to the point: i'm not making a sale, i'm not trying to fix INFJ kind. there's pretty much only one INFJ i deeply care for, and she's not here, so my gains are somewhat limited. rejection isn't a doorslam, even not talking to someone isn't a doorslam. but blocking communication from someone - not being willing to listen to anything they would have to say - wiping out their perspective from what matters to you when judging them - that's intrisict to the nature of the doorslam. it's making a conscious choice to make an uninformed decision when the alternative to doing so is right there for the grab, all you have to do is... not doorslam so you can hear the person out.

    how can that ever make sense? explain to me please.

  4. #434
    Lay the coin on my tongue Array SilkRoad's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    6w5 sp/sx
    Posts
    3,939

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    you just argued in support of ad hominems?

    anyway, to the point: i'm not making a sale, i'm not trying to fix INFJ kind. there's pretty much only one INFJ i deeply care for, and she's not here, so my gains are somewhat limited. rejection isn't a doorslam, even not talking to someone isn't a doorslam. but blocking communication from someone - not being willing to listen to anything they would have to say - wiping out their perspective from what matters to you when judging them - that's intrisict to the nature of the doorslam. it's making a conscious choice to make an uninformed decision when the alternative to doing so is right there for the grab, all you have to do is... not doorslam so you can hear the person out.

    how can that ever make sense? explain to me please.
    What if you've already heard them out, even repeatedly? Or what if every pattern of their life and behaviour indicates that they're going to go on mistreating and abusing the relationship (whatever its nature) that they have with you? Or what if you know with the deepest gut feeling possible that keeping them in your life is going to do nothing but harm to you?

    Sure, people say they'll change. Men who beat their wives and continue to do so for years also say they'll change.

    You may say that in your case the INFJ didn't hear you out, or you weren't behaving all that badly, or whatever. These things may be true. But I think partly what Fidelia and others were getting at is that in most cases (with a relatively "healthy" and mature INFJ) the "doorslam" will have followed a lot of "hearing out", a lot of repeated bad behaviour, a lot of disrespect, and a conviction on the part of the INFJ that they don't want to hang around and get hurt some more on the slim possibility of change on the part of the other person. Or if things have not played out quite in that way, the person's behaviour will certainly have indicated that in terms of values and acceptable behaviour, there's a major gulf between you and them and the relationship simply cannot continue on those terms. And I don't think you guys are acknowledging that not every INFJ doorslam involves shutting down and flouncing off without having heard the other person out or without having given them a billion chances already.
    Female
    INFJ
    Enneagram 6w5 sp/sx


    I DOORSLAMMING

  5. #435
    Society
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    And I don't think you guys are acknowledging that not every INFJ doorslam involves shutting down and flouncing off without having heard the other person out or without having given them a billion chances already.
    i'm certain they did. its part of almost every INFJ doorslam story... almost.

    ...except the old ones. the ones that had the time and distance, that have expeirenced the degree of growth that makes it easy to question themselves, to let the block fade and the name looses it's related pain, to ask why the other did what they did, behaved the way they did, to question their own part in the relationship, to feel sorrow fully.

    so far the shortest time period i've heard that taking for an INFJ to come full circle on their own and deeply regret a doorslam is 15 years, and that was an extremely healthy one. the longest i've heard was 28 years. i'm sure for many it's longer.

    they never get them back.

  6. #436
    Lay the coin on my tongue Array SilkRoad's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    6w5 sp/sx
    Posts
    3,939

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    i'm certain they did. its part of almost every INFJ doorslam story... almost.

    ...except the old ones. the ones that had the time and distance, that have expeirenced the degree of growth that makes it easy to question themselves, to let the block fade and the name looses it's related pain, to ask why the other did what they did, behaved the way they did, to question their own part in the relationship, to feel sorrow fully.

    so far the shortest time period i've heard that taking for an INFJ to come full circle on their own and deeply regret a doorslam is 15 years, and that was an extremely healthy one. the longest i've heard was 28 years.

    they never get them back.
    Do you think that letting the other person back into your life is always the right thing to do?

    Sometimes it may be...but I think if you've reached the doorslam point, it's unlikely to be. And you would never get me to agree that letting the other person into your life at some point is ALWAYS the right thing to do.

    I have a finite amount of emotional space in my life. I'm not going to continue to make room for users, sociopaths, people who've clearly demonstrated that they believe me to have no feelings or who are convinced that I will accept whatever spin they choose to put on the relationship - or simply people who are consistently unhealthy to be around.

    Besides, I'm not entirely convinced that people are always even sad or regretful that I'm gone (or that they "want me back" for more than their own selfish purposes.) Though I am open to being surprised on that count...


    EDIT: It may be worth noting that once someone has ended up behind the slammed or quietly closed door for a while, the chances are that I just don't like them very much any more (even if I don't HATE THEM or something dramatic like that). And I don't know that there's much you can do about that.
    Female
    INFJ
    Enneagram 6w5 sp/sx


    I DOORSLAMMING

  7. #437
    Society
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    people who've clearly demonstrated that they believe me to have no feelings
    yet you know you that under the right set of circumstances and reasons, under the right conditions, you are fully capable of doing the same:
    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    it is pretty much true that at that point I really don't care about their feelings any more.
    you are making a judgement call about a person's character based on their capacity to do... the very same thing that you can do. except that their circumstances, reasons, conditions, intents, their story, unlike yours, has - at that moment - no meaning to you.

    do you think you can do that when your healthy? when your Fe is at full swing? because having had the luck of having at least 3 INFJs that i know of in my life (a council, a friend and a wife - the last one being all 3), to a level where they felt comfortable sharing what they go through with me on a persistent basis, having seen how other's stories and perspectives weave into theirs when they are healthy and not overwhelmed, i don't think this is the case, and i know i've said this before but i think its very important to establish this... because it means your judging someone's character at the very time where your best tools to understand someone's character aren't availble to you.

    and if you have taken the role of a council in your relationships - and i get the impression like you often do - then you know that it takes 2 to tango, that you'd need insight into the character of both in order to provide useful relationship council for anyone. but when its your own, in order to understand what they where going through within the relationship, you need both your best tools to judge the other person's character and introspection.

    and here's the thing about introspection: if your a flesh and blood human (the sort that makes mistakes), and if you can do it while still feeling good about yourself, your doing it wrong. because it involves asking yourself the tough questions: how did i make them feel when i did this or that? how did they expeirence the way i treated them then or there? did they ever expeirence anything i did as abusive? was their anything i did that breached their trust? how could i have done things better? how could i grow as a person so maybe - just maybe - i won't have to doorslam again in the future?

    when you doorslam someone, the one thing your making sure of, is that you'll never know the answers.

    but hey, if someone runs after your family with a chainsaw - doorslam away (with a very taugh door). somehow i doubt that sort of thing is the common reason.

  8. #438
    Lay the coin on my tongue Array SilkRoad's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    6w5 sp/sx
    Posts
    3,939

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    yet you know you that under the right set of circumstances and reasons, under the right conditions, you are fully capable of doing the same:
    I'm far from perfect, but until someone has really messed me around, I will take their feelings into account. It's difficult for me NOT to do that. I am careful not to lead people on, not to use them, etc. The feedback I've had in my life indicates very much that I've been fairly successful. I don't think I have once been accused of leading someone on or using them, at least not by anyone who was "healthy" and not accusing all and sundry of similar things. The people who've led me on or used me had done similar things to other people. They showed a pattern.

    I stop taking others' feelings into account AFTER they've hurt mine badly enough for repair to be difficult, and when I realise that I need to look after myself. People manipulate the feelings of others by saying "well you should think about me and my feelings," so as to keep them around - then behaving atrociously.

    Plus, if I "felt" everyone's feelings all the time, I would probably commit suicide. I'm not joking.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    you are making a judgement call about a person's character based on their capacity to do... the very same thing that you can do. except that their circumstances, reasons, conditions, intents, their story, unlike yours, has - at that moment - no meaning to you.

    do you think you can do that when your healthy? when your Fe is at full swing? because having had the luck of having at least 3 INFJs that i know of in my life (a council, a friend and a wife - the last one being all 3), to a level where they felt comfortable sharing what they go through with me on a persistent basis, having seen how other's stories and perspectives weave into theirs when they are healthy and not overwhelmed, i don't think this is the case, and i know i've said this before but i think its very important to establish this... because it means your judging someone's character at the very time where your best tools to understand someone's character aren't availble to you.

    and if you have taken the role of a council in your relationships - and i get the impression like you often do - then you know that it takes 2 to tango, that you'd need insight into the character of both in order to provide useful relationship council for anyone. but when its your own, in order to understand what they where going through within the relationship, you need both your best tools to judge the other person's character and introspection.

    and here's the thing about introspection: if your a flesh and blood human (the sort that makes mistakes), and if you can do it while still feeling good about yourself, your doing it wrong. because it involves asking yourself the tough questions: how did i make them feel when i did this or that? how did they expeirence the way i treated them then or there? did they ever expeirence anything i did as abusive? was their anything i did that breached their trust? how could i have done things better? how could i grow as a person so maybe - just maybe - i won't have to doorslam again in the future?

    when you doorslam someone, the one thing your making sure of, is that you'll never know the answers.

    but hey, if someone runs after your family with a chainsaw - doorslam away (with a very taugh door). somehow i doubt that sort of thing is the common reason.
    This is all well and good. But you didn't answer my question about whether shutting someone out of your life is always the wrong thing to do, and whether you should always be prepared to let them back in.

    I know people have history, baggage and hurts that partly explain their actions. Every human being has that. Some people with a lot of damage manage not to consistently mess others around. Others go through life as users, happy to create false expectations, to break promises, and to always and under virtually every circumstance put their own selfish desires first.

    Do you maintain relationships with people who have consistently used and hurt you, or whose values/behaviour and yours have a massive gaping disconnect between them? If so, why?

    I may be interpreting you wrong, but you seem to think that INFJs just stop caring for no reason and shut people out. This is seldom if ever the case. It is possible to be so hurt by a person that you need to stop caring about them for self-protection and as part of the healing process.

    I have been around people who have consistently shown that they do not care about my feelings. Basically from the word go, except maybe I couldn't see it at the outset. Like I said, I'm far from perfect. But I don't think I have ever pretended to be close to another human being and then treated them like that.

    I can't think of one good reason to keep someone in my life whose values will never match up with mine or who has consistently hurt and used me. Not one.
    Female
    INFJ
    Enneagram 6w5 sp/sx


    I DOORSLAMMING

  9. #439
    4x9 Array cascadeco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Enneagram
    4 so/sp
    Posts
    6,811

    Default

    You know, I have to say that the being-super-in-tuned-with-others is just one side of the coin, and relying wholly on that - factoring other peoples' stories/perspectives into your own - often blinds you to your OWN story. And, you write it as if that and only that is what defines INFJ's as being 'healthy'. I would argue that in many ways, keeping things only at that level keeps the INFJ from actualizing beyond that element of themselves. It prevents other avenues of growth. There is far more to an INFJ than forever playing the role of 'council' and forever weaving others' stories into their own. imo Health also requires the knowledge of knowing when to draw the lines, and when to recognize that weaving certain elements are in fact not good, not true, not healthy, etc.

    Yep, it does take two to tango. But if I already know I'm done tangoing and have no interest tangoing any longer, then I'm done tangoing. From my OWN perspective - and I could care less what perspectives/lenses others throw on me - when I'm able to unweave all of the other perspectives away so that I can take pieces, but am not consumed with them, and can look at things more objectively, and can sit back and look at the overall situation, and factor in MY desires too- my own desires without being conflated with others - then I often feel I am seeing quite clearly. And often-times when I dig in and find what I want, and see that I'm doing the other person no favors by being in the relationship when I no longer want to be in it, well, I move forward and feel quite healthy and calm in doing do.

    I don't relate to many elements of doorslamming in this thread; in fact I'm not sure I've ever done a full-blown doorslam where it hasn't been clear something is coming and there hasn't been a 'closure' conversation at the end. But honestly... I have no qualms about letting people go when I'm no longer on board, and I also am not unaware of what their side might be. I simply don't want to tango anymore. There are more negatives/conflicts inherent in the overall relationship than positives at that juncture. If you or others want to call that decision point unhealthy, so be it. But if the alternative is never allowing relationships to dissolve, and forever maintaining each and every relationship, then that doesn't make much sense to me either.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

    My Photography and Watercolor Fine Art Prints!!! Cascade Colors Fine Art Prints
    https://docs.google.com/uc?export=do...Gd5N3NZZE52QjQ

  10. #440
    Lay the coin on my tongue Array SilkRoad's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    6w5 sp/sx
    Posts
    3,939

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    But if the alternative is never allowing relationships to dissolve, and forever maintaining each and every relationship, then that doesn't make much sense to me either.
    Yes.

    The people I know who continue to maintain each and every relationship don't seem to learn lessons from life and they continue to repeat the same unhealthy patterns. I mean, everyone may do that to a certain extent but they do it to an extreme.

    I have a friend who is probably xNFP. She does mini-doorslams quite regularly, but she almost always makes up with people. She is also still "friends" (at least as far as a yearly phone call, etc) with most of her exes. Including the guy who turned out to be bisexual and cheated on her with a man; the guy who was a drug user and totally messed her around for the last quarter of their relationship; the guy who tried to commit suicide when she broke up with him; etc. And, interestingly, every relationship she's ever told me about has involved her making all the effort and the guy totally taking advantage of her. See a pattern?
    Female
    INFJ
    Enneagram 6w5 sp/sx


    I DOORSLAMMING

Similar Threads

  1. When any type other than INFJ doorslams you/cuts you out of their life
    By SilkRoad in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 46
    Last Post: 02-03-2014, 11:26 PM
  2. [INFJ] INFJ Daily Life: Plans, Strangers,etc?
    By plaminal in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 11-13-2011, 12:13 AM
  3. [MBTItm] INFJ negotiating mid-life
    By Immaculate Cloud in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 03-21-2009, 09:04 PM
  4. [INFJ] INFJ, inner life a little too rich?
    By littledarling in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 36
    Last Post: 02-18-2009, 02:23 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •