User Tag List

Page 41 of 170 FirstFirst ... 3139404142435191141 ... LastLast
Results 401 to 410 of 1696

Thread: When an INFJ doorslams you / cuts you out of their life / breaks off contact

  1. #401

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverie View Post
    I don't think narcissism is usually used as a neutral term. Perhaps it can, but I've never heard anyone refer to a person with a healthy self-regard as a narcissist. The myth of Narcissus definitely refers to an unhealthy self-absorption.

    "Except in the sense of primary narcissism or healthy self-love, "narcissism" usually is used to describe some kind of problem in a person or group's relationships with self and others."
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissism

    I don't agree that enneagram 3 is all about narcissism, more about being successfull and excelling in a public way. It seems that at it's most unhealthiest a 3 would be narcissistic.

    I do think a 4W3 can be an INFJ, as I am one, but I'm no more narcissistic than most people. Many INFJs and INFPs are 4s.
    here's a link http://www.breakoutofthebox.com/flauttrichards.htm

    To be honest I think you're projecting a personal issue with a specific person to a general level. I hope you can find some peace. It's obviously very stressful. Take care!
    I think we agree more than we disagree. We'd be splitting hairs on some things. And, I don't think that's necessary.

    As I have stated, I've known several infj 4w3, as well as some infj 4w5 types. All of them are unique and different. All of them, also have some common characteristics of having similar types of personality.

    I'm no different. I exhibit a lot of the common characteristics of the 8 and both wings. I think some people are healthier than others at different times of their lives. But, there are overlapping personality trait characteristics. People can have those commonalities within their typez, with other people, and still be an individual, unique unto themselves.

    In my experience, the infp type is a 6. I don't want to stray towards that as a primary discussion but I would disagree there.

    I came her for myself and my infj and for others specific to my situation. No doubt correct. As I stated, I'm willing come here among many other things to best approach my own situation and those of others involved, as well as directly or indirectly helping someone else unknown to me on here. I'm very comfortable with all of that. I'm comfortable with how I've posted and treated others here, as well as with the topics themselves.

    To me infj's, and/or those who interact with infj's seemed like a good place to go for a variety of info and exchange. ...especially a door slam thread. I don't know of anyone in my daily life that has any familiarity with personality types and/or the enneagram.

    As for stress, yes it is, maximum stress. As an 8 and Entp/Enfp type of person, I handle stress extremely well, with a very high tolerance for pain. It's come in handy. But everyone has their limits at some point.

    I'm capable of putting myself into hypothetical situations that are not my own. And, even in the most extreme situations, a door slam still hurts the infj, let alone others. I can understand someone needing some time to oneself, as long as it is made clear to others. I can see someone leaving a situation permanently, as long as it were made clear to others. When someone isolates oneself, they have no choice but to start guessing. Guessing what others say, think, do. And vice versa with those other people. Often times it leads to bigger and bigger problems. An infj is forced to rely on the other person to not do anything, or to do something, and all of that becomes on the other person's terms. It's essentially giving up power, it's prolonging problems. It's a forever limbo. ...In my situation, it left open huge loose ends in many ways with many people. Feelings aren't facts. Feelings are important, very important. But facts are equally important. Logic and thinking have value too. No matter the person, if one gets to extreme in a particular way, bad things happen. They don't just resolve themselves and go away.

    And, yes, it is somewhat difficult to understand why someone wouldn't just get tired and say, okay, let's sit down and help one another achieve the best result for everyone. That requires facing reality. If others don't confront, the longer it goes, the more reality gets skewed. If it wasn't something I couldn't walk away from, I'd have been long gone. I still would have told others the truth and exposed her. While those people weren't as important to me as she was, nowhere near, they still have value to me. Yes, it is not an ideal situation.

  2. #402

    Default

    http://personalitycafe.com/infj-arti...rsonality.html

    I found this thread to be of some value to me. Do any infj's or non-infj's have experience with self or others you know with this? How does one escape the "Grip" described and return to reality, especially when the grip goes on for a long time? Thx.

  3. #403
    FRACTALICIOUS Array phobik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    6,924

    Default

    While I'm neither versed in MBTI, Enneagram, or psychology, my take is that this situation appears to be way beyond typology and much more into personal issues that require professional medical/psychological guidance, and therefore, trying to use typology box-fitting for seeking closure is both pointless and possibly a stress-related illusory coping mechanism.
    To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, be nothing.
    ~ Elbert Hubbard

    Music provides one of the clearest examples of a much deeper relation between mathematics and human experience.

  4. #404

    Default

    Follow up to my previous posts from a few weeks ago:

    I did go to the other country. Unfortunately things did not go well. My infj has cut off all contact with all former known friends and acquaintances for the most part, except the very few who are not involved and do not know about the situation. She now has a new place to live, which is our new house, and lots of new people to meet and interact with, in a new location, for a new life. Delusionally, she is trying to hide, literally from anyone that wants her to confront the house and financial situation. It is entirely a legal matter now. She has a great opportunity for a great deal right now, but she has refused all contact. Her only contact was a message to my attorney to reject the deal. Instead of getting to keep the house and some money, it will become a legal matter. This will cost me and her tons of money. But in the end I will get my money and she will lose her money and she will lose the house. Very sad indeed.

    The above post I made about The Grip was extremely helpful for me. A low functioning infj with poorly developed Sensing, falling into lower levels ESTP, combinded with Enneagram 3 wing Narcissism is what happened in my situation.

    The problem is reality. In my case, a troubled infj decided to cut off all ties to reality and hide and try to live a new life without first settling all old situations. Life does not work that way. There are severe consequences when you run from big things. I tried everything I knew to get her to sign a piece of paper that would have helped her greatly but she refused contact with everyone.

    Sadly, this is now not only a civil case, it is a criminal case of fraud and possible jail time for her. Even with the threat of this, she has still decided to hide and not speak with anyone for 6 months. I am not even sure if the police knocking on her door will spark or trigger a return to reality for her.

    In particular, the isolation, combined, with the stress of too many details and deadlines, and financials, not a strength of hers sparked triggers of a downward spiral. She became laser focused, obsessive with her vision and lost balance with being realistic. She either has no awareness, or no care of how many people she has hurt with her actions and inaction, nor for how long. She was given tons of space to get herself together. It is very sad indeed. It went from walking on egg shells perfectionist nit pick, to self indulgence, to extreme self indulgence, to cutting corners and dishonesty, to cover up and lying. Now, the end result is sever punishment for her. The cover up lies she has told have been pretty shocking. She has made huge errors of fact under duress which have been easily disproved.

    The thing that is pretty amazing is that she does not take a current and recent offered deal that allows her to keep the house and some money and walk away. I am willing to give her that in exchange for only the money owed to me. Instead she has chosen to be non-responsive except to repeatedly say for 6 months she will eventually pay me money another unknown way of which she does not describe. False promises, possible complete fabrication. She would rather go to jail, lose the house and money, than actual face reality and sign a piece of paper with my attorneys.

    Thus far 3rd parties have had zero success getting her to meet in person to work things out quickly and peacefully for everyone. If anything she has been hostile and short with these kind people.

    The Grip information was extremely valuable for me in my situation. What is interesting about it, is that my infj did a very good job pretending to be fine when she was not. And, when she spiraled downward in a very bad way, she was willing to destroy anyone in her path, even long time friends and loved ones, very innocent people. Burning bridges and cutting ties, for reasons completely unnecessary.

    All she had to do was sit down with people in person in a calm way to solve problems. She had several people willing and wanting to help her in a positive way. Instead she chose isolation and deceit. And now, she will pay a very severe price for it, because she has refused to not only help others she has hurt, she has refused to help herself too.

    I now have a great awareness of the grip. It will be extremely helpful to me in the future.

    I just do not understand the unwillingness to face reality for 5 minutes. The delusional assumptions made when isolating for 6 months, of how others think and feel about you...etc...

    I still had a lot of sympathy and empathy, the Enfp side of me that comes out in my personal life. But once it came to my attention that she was lying to others about how I treated her, the Entp hammer came down.

    Good luck to everyone.

  5. #405
    Professional Trickster Array Esoteric Wench's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    7w8
    Posts
    949

    Default

    Thanks for updating everyone. I'm sorry you're having to resort to legal maneuverings. But it sounds like it's your only option. I hope you get a just and speedy resolution.
    ENFP with kick*ss Te | 7w8 so | ♀

  6. #406

    Default

    Thanks. I am confident I will have a just resolution. But it will not be swift nor cheap. It will be very expensive for me and it could take years. But the case is good.

    I am dealing with someone who has chosen to avoid reality. Shallow false promises from her have fallen on deaf ears.

    It is a tough lesson for me.

  7. #407
    Society
    Guest

    Default

    i'm slightly very drunk, and tired, and read half of this stinking thread, and i'm just going to share this with you INFJs... and tell you that this is nothing but your ugliest fucking side.

    before i let it out, let me just say the really fucked up part: i figured it out.

    see, me? ENTP here, potential paths and possible solutions come to me from the fucking sky, ideas come to me from everywhere, all the freaking time, there's no such thing as a mountain i won't eventually figure out how to move, i will smell the potential directions, i will arm myself with other people, and i will arm myself with my own arrogant self confidence, and move the bloody mountain to where it fucking belongs... except.. you know when? except when i'm overwhelmed and stressed emotionally.

    and you know what happens then? i assume they aren't there. i am so fucking used to the solutions coming to me, i am so used to [U]smell the possible paths, that i take it for granted, and if i can't smell it, it isn't there... right? wrong.

    this is when we fall to our shadows, this is when we can't access our most dearest of information processing, and this is where we all fall - all types - when we assume that the information we are used to getting means it isn't there.

    it is because you are used to be so freaking giving, used to being so freaking insightful, everyone else's emotions are so tied into your basic emotional reality, that when your stress points are pushed, when you feel overwhelmed, you don't sense their emotions at all. and if you can't smell it, it isn't there. and then you can become the most inconsiderate egocentric bastards on this planet. everyone else is so used to question whether they can see other people's emotions, other people's points of view, they have to, but you INFJs? it's so natural for you that if you don't smell it then there's nothing to smell.

    and that's bad, you know why? percisely because it's not that bad. because its people who take themselves for granted, all people, they take their most fundemental information they are used to reacting too for granted and forget to question whether it's there when they don't recieve it.
    its bad because it means this applies to everyone, every type in their own way, every person in their own insecurities and darkest fears. it means the INFJ reaction needs to be understandable, human, natural..

    but how can i forgive her?

    when we where together, her only complaint about me was always that i reached her moving ideals a day too late... a day too late? can anyone here imagine what it is to meet the INFJ ideals when they are running away from you, and yet still always find a way to fill them out? everybody talks about how INFJs ideals can never be fulfilled, yet for this INFJ i always did eventually.. all she had to learn was patience...

    yet how could she forget me? how many times have i placed my ego aside? how many times have i figure our way out of the worst situations? how many times did i display the rational capacity to zoom out and interpret the social interactions with all the motivations involved to get the bigger picture? or the thoughtfulness to understand how she would expeirence my actions from her perspective? the foresight and apriciation to understand that it took her a lot of trust to come out of her introverted shell and be herself around me and that by sharing my angry and one-sided perspective with others i would deprive her of that trust she placed in me? that's what i could take for granted, that's what she took for granted... those might not be normal for most people, in fact i know it isn't, but for fucking sake they are my mind's staples, i can see them, i can always see them...

    how can she not see that for me not seen them would be insane? and worst - how can she not see that i had every right to be insane? after the breakup i had no room to mourn the breakup with her, i had no room to miss her, there was only my stepson. so many times i wasn't breathing, so many moments without any sense of control, i had no fucking clue what a panic attack was, i thought i was having heart attacks that aren't going all the way through, and i felt completely helpless, i couldn't see any path, i didn't trust myself to be able to live with it, so i waited for one heart attack to come and get me... but there was no arm pains, it was just panic attacks... and it happened again and again and again, every morning, i wake up looking for my stepson and he wasn't there, i couldn't make him breakfest, i couldn't take him to school, the oppertunities to teach him fly by and i'm not there, i have nightmares stuff happens to him and i'm not there...
    this wasn't breakup up pains, this wasn't like mourning over a dead friend or parent, this wasn't fear like you feel in combat, this wasn't even merely depression and a sense of emptiness, this was the constant dread of needing to protect and care for and nurture and love someone with every bone in your body and not being able to see anyway to get there, expressing itself when neither my body or mind had anyway of making sense of it or think rationally. i never had an anxiousity disorder before or anything similar - i have gone through a fucking war and more family losses then she can imagine without ever getting PTSD, how was i suppose to know? how was i suppose to think rationally at all? to be considerate of her when i was blaming her? there was no spite, i didn'twant it to humiliate her, i just couldn't deal with it myself so i reacted in my own extraverted way - talking and talking and talking for whoever was willing to listen, and was unable to access the information in my mind that would tell me why not too, that would find a path and make the situation less then hopelesss. i did eventually, but it took me awhile to get there... too long for her.

    she told herself i was hiding behind him, she rationalizes that its not like i lost my real child, not like how she would empathize with if she would loose him, and maybe that's true,but i am pretty sure this isn't what normal step parents go through, this seems a hell of a lot like what i imagine biological parents go through, and regardless - she has expeirenced neither, and could never imagine what i was going through, and yet judges me for how i reacted and the place i was when i expeirenced what she can't imagine...

    and how could one even judge someone to be a bad parents based on how they deal after loosing their children? when would it ever be releavent? you've shown me how remarkable intelligent you can be a bilion times, use your Ti woman!

    but she won't let herself understand that or any of that, she won't let herself even consider listening to what i was going through, listening to my story... and the fuckedup part? i understand that, i know that her Ni is shouting in her head - "if this is true it would only make you feel bad about yourself"... here i am, being understanding towards her reasons to not be understanding to me..

    and the funniest thing here is, unlike breakup pains, unlike loosing someone who dies... it doesn't go away. it doesn't heal, it doesn't fade, the dread and the thought is always there. but i am learning to live with it, to catch the panic attacks early and breath them out, to function, to be healthy, to make jokes, to laugh, to grow.. all alongside with it. without hating her, even feeling love when i think about her, to be understanding towards her...

    and it is funny, because when you doorslam your doing it to protect yourself, yet after having caused someone the worst possible pain their life can offer, if they can do that, if they can think about your needs like that, understand your emotional state, care about you, to learn to be saine and all that it encompases for them the way you know them... who can be safer?

    understanding, learning to live with it... but still very angry. it's all the more frustrating because i know she can understand this all if she lets herself, you have no idea how brilliant this woman is, how sensitive and empathic she can be, she's the most giving person i've ever known, i fall for over and over again because there was always more reasons to fall for her, and at some point this was the mother of my children because there could be nobody better, and she saw the same in me, we had freaking names.. but she never believed me, i always told her how beautiful and brilliant she is, she always impressed me again and again like nobody has, and i told her each time how awesome it was... and she never believed me, always found a way to devalue it, always found a way to dismiss it... i could never make her feel good about herself... that's what accumilated, she listened to the bad stuff, not to grow but just to feel worst about herself, and yet never listened to the good stuff, to most of everything i felt about her and valued in her.. that's what broke us... so how can i now ask her to listen to a story that would make her feel worst about herself?

    and the ways she reacted to loosing her sense of esteem from me... i won't talk of that out of respect to her, but i don't know how to not judge her about that either.. and how i can not judge her as a mother for protecting her own emotions rather then protecting our son's? and with her insight to how i would think of those, how would that not make her feel like crap?

    i need to forgive her. i need to find a way to forgive her, whether she will open the door one day or not, and admittedly her last words to me suggests that she hopes to do so, i still need to forgive her, for myself, to let go of the anger. and i need to do it by myself, because...

    .......................

    the thing is...

    and you think this is just special for my case? every person you doorslammed has a story, maybe not just like this, maybe less, maybe worst, but their own story, that you doorslammers have decided not to listen too. and they have to forgive you on their own, because there's never going to be a sorry from you.

    and why? because you didnt learn not to take yourself for granted, because suddently something happened and you didn't smell their point of view, and unlike everybody else - you have never learned how to acount for other's feelings without that smell. all because you got a metaphorical cold and didn't think to get a fucking tissue.

    you can high five each other's doorslams all you want, whenever there's a thread or a sub forum for one type it becomes a bloody wanking circle reaffirming our worst aspect, and this is no exception.

    but you can never convince me that this is right.

  8. #408
    wants Mifune clone minion Array Z Buck McFate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    MBTI
    INfJ
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Posts
    3,268

    Default





    This just never gets old.
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

    5w4 sx/sp Johari / Nohari

  9. #409

    Default

    I think it is easy for a specific personality type to see things through that type. One of the things of which I am appreciative for is the ability to see both, and/or all sides.

    For me it is important to show restraint, to empower others. I thought I did that pretty well. I can adjust to introverted communication, and indirect communication. But I can't adjust to no communication for extremely long periods ignoring very important issues.

    I have not lost faith in infj's or my compatibility with them. In my situation, "my" infj 4w3 became overwhelmed with stress and then lost in a self indulgent vision, and lost balance, and lost any sense of being practical. Many stars aligned in a bad way to cause my infj to get unhealthy and lost in the grip. And, I am certainly not perfect.

    In my situation, the most frustrating part is not getting a brief in person meeting to see facial expressions and emotions so that a very easy mutually beneficial resolution can be obtained. It is still a delusional world of ignoring reality.

    If there was not an extremely large sum of money involved, myself and others would have walked away quietly a long time ago and we would have left it up to her to return on her own or not. We all would have moved on.

    The not caring on her part and or not recognizing the pain and stress caused is pretty difficult. The self absorption at all costs is staggering. Life does not work that way without consequences. I cannot help someone who hides from reality. And I gladly would have done so.

  10. #410
    Intentionally Clementine Array Starry's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    748 sx/sp
    Posts
    4,564

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BalanceFind View Post
    I think it is easy for a specific personality type to see things through that type. One of the things of which I am appreciative for is the ability to see both, and/or all sides.

    For me it is important to show restraint, to empower others. I thought I did that pretty well. I can adjust to introverted communication, and indirect communication. But I can't adjust to no communication for extremely long periods ignoring very important issues.

    I have not lost faith in infj's or my compatibility with them. In my situation, "my" infj 4w3 became overwhelmed with stress and then lost in a self indulgent vision, and lost balance, and lost any sense of being practical. Many stars aligned in a bad way to cause my infj to get unhealthy and lost in the grip. And, I am certainly not perfect.

    In my situation, the most frustrating part is not getting a brief in person meeting to see facial expressions and emotions so that a very easy mutually beneficial resolution can be obtained. It is still a delusional world of ignoring reality.

    If there was not an extremely large sum of money involved, myself and others would have walked away quietly a long time ago and we would have left it up to her to return on her own or not. We all would have moved on.

    The not caring on her part and or not recognizing the pain and stress caused is pretty difficult. The self absorption at all costs is staggering. Life does not work that way without consequences. I cannot help someone who hides from reality. And I gladly would have done so.
    What I will write...I believe it has been stated more than once in this thread...but I will repeat it in case the sentiment has been lost to its pages and pages...

    There are INFJs here...and all over the world I imagine...that have 'doorslammed' some seriously deplorable people...(only after experiencing a great deal of suffering or putting in great effort to make the relationship work.)
    Likewise...there are INFJs that have...perhaps...*snapped* a little too soon on some genuinely good people...subsequently causing those individuals a great deal of pain.

    ^^^now can you see how this would be cause for confusion?

    I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the majority of INFJs on this site are what Z Buck referred to as 'last resort doorslammers'. So it must be kinda insulting to have people come into these threads...scolding...indicating that an INFJ should never doorslam...using phrases like…’unhealthy’ and ‘narcissism’ and ‘shadow ESTP’ and on and on... 'How could you cause ME so much anxiety?' 'How could you do this to me and that to me?'

    See...no one knows if you are 'the deplorable' or 'the good' (this is directed towards @Mane as well). All we have is your story...not the whole picture.

    I think when posting in this thread...it is important to remain mindful that not all INFJs...are YOUR INFJ. And they shouldn't be told 'what to do and what not to do'. I think this thread remains useful only if it's based on inquiry...leaving out accusations and generalizations.

Similar Threads

  1. When any type other than INFJ doorslams you/cuts you out of their life
    By SilkRoad in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 46
    Last Post: 02-03-2014, 11:26 PM
  2. [INFJ] INFJ Daily Life: Plans, Strangers,etc?
    By plaminal in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 11-13-2011, 12:13 AM
  3. [MBTItm] INFJ negotiating mid-life
    By Immaculate Cloud in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 03-21-2009, 09:04 PM
  4. [INFJ] INFJ, inner life a little too rich?
    By littledarling in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 36
    Last Post: 02-18-2009, 02:23 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •