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  1. #331
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Jan 2009
    937 so/sx


    Quote Originally Posted by BalanceFind View Post
    I was hopeful to save her from herself.
    I sincerely feel badly for your situation, and have a great deal of empathy for the kind of idea-seeking you are pursuing here on the forum. I am sorry you have to deal with what is clearly a perplexing situation.

    But then ... peppered all throughout your posts, over and over again are sentences like the one I have quoted above. I don't mean any disrespect to you, but I honestly read this as condescension and it could be read as somewhat offensive. Frankly, if you regularly spoke to me about another person this way in "real life" I would be forced to question your conclusions because there is such a strong sense of skew, and you keep repeating the same sentiments, albeit with some variance. You come across as ... arrogant even. It's not my intention to upset you at all, or question how you've concluded what to believe ... it just all feels wrong. Any sense of your personal ability to see yourself in a clear way ... seems a little limited. I question how well you do see yourself. And I realize me saying this having never met you is a form of arrogance too. Yet, look at your posts; there's plenty of evidence there. Look at them bearing in mind what else I have to share.

    TO say this another way ... I am not interested that you think she is healthy vs unhealthy. It doesn't help me help you one little bit. I don't want to hear how you are trying to save her either, or protect her, or any of that. If she owes you money you have a legal right to redress. I encourage you to pursue it or forget about it. Or lay bare in writing what transpired, facts only, no interpretation of her being "so, so unhealthy, poor thing" ... otherwise, you can vent all you like, but realize there's not much anyone can offer you in terms of solution, just sympathy.

    If it's only sympathy you seek, I am certainly happy to offer you a . Doorslams are hard.

    What I can say for certain, from what you have said here, she has done you a gross financial injustice. Remedy it. And forget about her. Forgetting will be very difficult I know, but there will be no turning back from her end, maybe a 1% chance, EVER? Therefore you must move forward.

    Quote Originally Posted by BalanceFind View Post
    When an infj withdraws under stress, the infj then does things sometimes based only on feelings and not also facts. Facts matter. Facts matter a lot. Sometimes when in this state an infj or this particular infj stops checking in and makes incorrect assumptions and forms emotional opinions not based on facts or reality. Many wrong assumptions. Basic direct communication solves this quickly and much more easily.
    I do agree with the essence of this btw. All cards-on-the-table communications is my preference, to feel conclusions were reached and with a hopefully satisfying denouement for all parties. The issue is, it's not really how infj's are wired once they get to the doorslam. To them it's self-preservation or die, basically. As fantastic and loving as they are in a myriad of ways, there is a point where they will cut you out, and I am not sure if that wiring can ever really be rewired, healthy or no.

    It's unfortunate. I don't enjoy taking homes away from people. I don't enjoy taking money away from people. I don't enjoy exposing her actions and behavior to others. If she were willing to actually talk about her problems, she'd have had much more support than she ever realized, from me, from others.
    I heartily encourage you to cease traveling this path of self-aggrandizement adorned with self-pity. You have legal remedy. DO IT. Or move on.

    And good luck. It's a shame you have to take this difficult road.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt

    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  2. #332


    I'm not seeking sympathy. I don't think I'm better, nor worse than anyone else in life. I don't believe in heirarchies of any kind.

    Perhaps it would make some feel better if I listed my faults. I have no problem with that.

    Facts aren't feelings. I have great respect for anyone's feelings. But there are times in life that responsibilities trump feelings. One of the problems with a door slam is that down the road after that happens, at least in my case, the infj has facts incorrect and refuses to care that she was wrong on some facts, as if facts don't matter. Facts matter. Responsibilities matter. Being an Entp/Enfp person, I am not a fan of rules. I can relate to that. However, there are some basic ones to life or consequences are severe.

    I'm not saying anything earth shattering here. I'm sure there are infj's here and others who know a situation of an extremely self-indulgent infj who is out of control with self-preservation of image at all costs.

    One thing interesting is that when I did speak with her on short phone call 5 months ago, she rattled off a handful of things in anger that bothered her...some of which happened many, many years prior. The timing was stunning. Part of the problem also was that she was factually incorrect on some of these things. She easily could be shown facts that prove that, but she didn't and doesn't care.

    I don't discount the value of anyone's feelings. But feelings aren't facts. There has to be a separation of the two.

    Looking back I saw and can see the downward spiral. Prior to that, before I left, she went through a bunch of old emails to search for anything that would support her anger or negative opinion. I have read that this is common for some infj types.

    I'm not guessing. I experienced these things. She had a dream, vision, goal of moving back to a country, and living a certain lifestyle etc...I helped her greatly with this for years.

    Over time, I had to give her more encouragement and pep talks...because she was isolated at times, had to rough it at times, during the few year process. I wasn't yet there full time, just part time. It's as if the stress just built over time slowly, quietly. We talked about constructive, productive things she could do daily to keep a good balance in all aspects of her life. She did a good job convincing me that she was likely doing better than I thought.

    We were coming close to a deadline for a large payment on a home. It was at this point that she began a much steeper slide. She and I don't fight or argue. Her behavior turned panicky over email and phone, part that and part calm stress and part fatigue. It turns out she needed even more money than I previously had thought. It was getting late in the process and she kind of slipped that in there. I didn't say anything about that. I knew she was stressed. I didn't want to add to it.

    So I worked hard to take care of things. I didn't say much about it, again to avoid stress for her. I found out later that my not saying much worried her more. I had to. Do some scrambling for the extra. I tried casually to mention it but before it got anywhere, I could sense she could blow up...egg shells if you will.

    She sent me a strange email at that time...all of this last summer or so...and it stunned me...out of the blue...about how her ex had let her down and lied and or broke promises, as well as a few other family members. It was a fearful email. I can say that she had zero indication there would ever be a problem. None. And of course there wasn't. I was bothered that I'd be compared to people I've never met. It was as if she couldn't separate me from any of these people any longer. She was so laser focused on this project, that all other facts and reality seemed to not be there for her. I took care of everything...and shortly later went there for a month.

    It would seem all would be great. But then she started on and on about all of these expensive things she wanted to buy for the place and many other expenses. I told her that she could use the money I wired. ...what I think happened is that she needed a lot more money than anticipated. I believe she went through some money on her own and she wasn't honest about finances. When I said no problem, we can sell a different piece of land and use that for more cash flow for expenses, she didn't really want to do that. Basic finances...*nd she now wanted everything.

    She also at the same time, started getting very jealous of our female friends. Part of it was a jealousy that they were less available than usual due to being being busy in new relationships...and multiple times, she'd be jealous of women right in front me. But these were non-threats to our relationship. They included long time mutual friends of ours that believe me even she would admit in a healthy state are not a threat to our relationship. She showed jealousy of any female who talked with me in any public setting, even retail workers at public places. Every time, if the person was what she deemed too friendly or too attractive.

    The above examples were not normal behavior for her, not to that extreme. Also, I'd add that I had to help take care of a few family issues of my own. I have an elderly relative with dementia, a few others who's affairs I manage. Things like that. Previously she was very supportive, but now at this state, anything that took my time and attention away was a strike against me. All of this was a pattern of behavior over time.

    Now there are multiple things I can do better. And, I know some of the things on a daily life basis that she would like better etc...all very solvable things. But that's tough when she doesn't talk about what's bothering her. Sure sometimes I'll figure them out, but sometimes I won't.

    This is someone who hasn't recovered from a downward spiral. That doesn't make me arrogant. It's the truth. And, I've done almost all I can to get a solution that helps both myself and her. Everyone has feelings. Every human being is unique, different, valuable. But there are also basic life responsibilities too.

    Now I'm in a position where I have suffered just as much as she has....where I'll have to spend a lot of money to handle a legal situation. I'll have to sit down and talk with friends and explain to them the truth. I have documentation. It 's not something I wanted to do. She thinks it's bad and stressful now.

    I wanted to work things out with her. I no longer want to do that. I wanted to find a win/win solution. That isn't looking so hot. I am not insearch of sympathy or empathy. I want to live in my house. I want to restore my friendships and business relationships. I'm capable of forgiveness. I can say that this door slam is a deal breaker in terms of a possible future relationship with her. I'd be her non-finacial friend in the future and that's it. I am aware many infj's wouldn't want that. For 5 months it's been 100 percent about her. Right now it'll be 50/50, and if she doesn't go for that, it'll be 100 percent me.

  3. #333


    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    Lol! This is the point at which Dr. Laura usually hangs up the phone on people!

    Balance, it's not your job to "save her from herself". She doesn't want you to and she doesn't want to talk to you. Fair or not, that's what you've got. The only person's behaviour/decision-making you can control is your own.
    Dr. Laura? Yipes. Seriously? I think her behavior has spoken for itself.

    I didn't say I could control someone else's behavior. That's very different than helping someone save themselves from themselves. This happens all the time in every day life. People with drug and alcohol addictions, people with mental and emotional health problems, elderly people who no longer can take care of themselves, yet put up a fight to do so. This happens all the time and I have had personal experience helping others.

  4. #334


    I've been reading some other similar threads. There's some interesting info.

    One popular theme is that someone door slams because of fear of exposure, fear of humiliation. When I returned 5 months ago to silence...I was beyond worried something terrible had happened to her, zero clue it was intentional. I contacted a relative to check on her, someone I would never talk to on my own. Therefore, this would freak them out. I mentioned when asked briefly, what was going on...and she hadn't quite told this relative the truth in terms of her life. She also hadn't told people that I paid a lot of money for an expensive home with her. She was passing it all off as her own. She was outraged, and exposed inadvertently. There wasn't any big deal or secret, nothing to be ashamed about. Obviously my actions were not intentional in terms of trying to hurt her, though that's not how she took them. I was shocked at a door slam, had her tracked down, mentioned to a relative out of concern for her well being, etc...I'd do it again too if in same situation.

    Prior to this "extra" door slam reasoning...not the was more that she was falling apart, and how dare I not see it. She was in over her head and how dare I not see it......those things are easily resolved with communication and action. No problem.

    She is part rage and part fear of exposure to others. There are many people who don't know some of these things. And, I know she isn't being truthful with people. It is all self-preservation at all costs now. She wants money, she wants the image that she has with all these other people, that she has everything together all the time. She is quite good at flipping that switch and coming across as far better than she is doing. As I stated before, she sent me a forwarded email story out of the blue during the 5 month door slam and counting. It was a metaphoric story about someone falling apart and how the other person wasn't noticing it. But I did notice, I did help as best as I could. Unofrtunately she is lying stealing and cheating at this point. And all of that kind of behavior trumps any feelings. That's not close to me in terms of priorities. I'd listen for hours, days, weeks, months, years....but I can't listen if you don't speak. I'd also clear up misinformation too. And, I'd have been more than happy to talk about faults and or areas of improvement for myself. Compromise. Relationships are about compromise. There are plenty of things she and I both do and compromise on in our daily lives.

    Anyway, she wanted me to rescue her from being in over her head. But, her solution sought was to spend a large sum of money to keep her self-indulgence going. That wasn't going to happen. And, immediately after that, I was door slammed.

    I would normally be perfectly willing to reach out supportively here and there from a distance, over a period of time, even long period of time. But as stated, specific issues, responsibilities, other friendships, all need immediate attention.

    In two calls that got through to her....she wasn't expecting my call...she was able to last a minute or so...but she wasn't stable...angry...non-logical, non-factual...even delusional....defiant...daring me to some extent.....that if and when I go to our new house, bad things would happen to me, police called, etc...ummm it's part my house. I worked a long time for it, and I've waited out of part sympathy for her state of mind, and great patience, for her to come around to reality. It just isn't happening.

    My taking action, will increase her fears of exposure....just the brief contact has done's almost as if she is surprised that I am doing this....and she is seething alone with rage....very very unusual and rare for her. She admitted to me that she hasn't been truthful with others about the situation. And, she refuses to sit down in person for a long back and forth conversation. Thanks all.

    She may have hurt feelings, and there may be specific things where I am at fault, or could do better, or different, as could she, but...there is a line.

    Interestingly enough, in all of the time I've known her....she only did something similar one that I mean pout and refuse to speak...but it lasted maybe two days.

    In this situation, she'll lose me whether temporary or permanent in her mind doesn't matter, a big deal...but in her mind, she thinks she won't lose the house, won't lose the friendships, won't lose the image she has created with people local and International. It's as if she thinks she can keep everything, and cut me part for hurt feelings, and part fear of exposure of her wrongdoings. Instead of confronting and solving problems, she's on the run, hoping, desperately that she won't be exposed. Sad part is she didn't need to live up to an image in the first place. Every single one of these people loved her uncondtitionally. But she never saw that. ...including me. And, yes, she knows it, a million times over. She just refuses to believe it. Sad.

  5. #335
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    937 so/sx


    So, what is your purpose here if I may so enquire?

    To encourage INFJ's not to doorslam people?
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt

    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  6. #336
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    5w4 sx/sp


    BalanceFind: your posts come across as though your goal is to find the right words to MAKE her listen. It’s like you’re obsessing about it, because you aren’t listening to any feedback, as though you’re looking for something specific and disregarding everything that tells you something you don’t want to hear. There’s something commendable about the way you don’t want to give up on this person, but- the fact remains that *if* she has doorslammed you, it’s because there’s something about you which is too overwhelming for her to deal with. And the reason everyone keeps suggesting you move on is because once a person becomes ‘too overwhelming to deal with’ to an INFJ, it simply isn’t possible to ‘find the right words’. Even if you are dead on in your assessment- and she is as ‘unhealthy’ as you keep claiming she is, and all the reasons for her behavior are what you believe they are- none of it changes the fact that dealing with you has become too overwhelming to her. YOU can’t help her.

    Something important it seems like you haven’t fully taken into account: ‘Doorslamming’ isn’t about laziness, or a simple unwillingness to deal with certain things, or selfishness, or anything easily controllable on the doorslammer’s part. People often project these things because the conflicts INFJs have trouble with (which we claim produces too much ‘white noise’/confusion) aren’t directly understandable- particularly to ExxPs- and so it looks like selfish unwillingness. Not only is this not the case, but the more someone rants about how “it’s not that hard to ______ to avoid a doorslam”- the faster and more likely that ranter will GET a doorslam. And we won’t even feel bad about it, because the person isn’t trying to understand our experience so much as tell us what our experience should be- and people like that aren’t worth having around.

    We doorslam because people get overwhelming. End of discussion. It’s oversimplifying (and manipulative, even if not intentionally so) to say it’s ‘fear’.

    You have become overwhelming to her and no amount of explaining how she is “unhealthy” is going to change that. Doesn’t matter if it’s been 5 months or 5 years- if you’re still overwhelming, then you’re still overwhelming and there’s nothing YOU can do except back off. No amount of ‘right words’ will change it—though I will tell you, you’re obsession with finding them is likely directly related to why she finds you overwhelming.

    I’ll say what I said in the initial thread you started on this topic: to settle the financial matter, I suggest you be as matter of fact as possible. Don’t try to explain any of this other stuff- about how she needs to take responsibility, how she’s avoiding things, she too concerned with her image, blah blah blah. Just: “This is what you owe me and this is why. I need it by (date) because ___. If I don’t get it, I will need to take legal action. I prefer not to, but I will.” The more extra *stuff* you throw in there, any appeal to “listen to reason”, the more likely she is to throw the baby out with the bathwater and disregard all of it (and not even feel guilty for doing so).

    edit to add: Seriously, once someone gets to this point with me- where I can't handle hearing anything except the most basic of facts (and I won't even hear the facts if they mix their own opinion with it and try to sell it to me as 'fact')- it's like a stadium blowhorn being set off inches from my face. Your best bet in ever being able to communicate with her again is to shift, for now, to the most basic of facts. Any attempt to explain to her that interaction with you "shouldn't" feel like a stadium blowhorn going off in her face will further guarantee she'll never want to deal with you again.
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

    5w4 sx/sp Johari / Nohari

  7. #337


    It's pretty ridiculous to compare my interaction here with real life prior to this.

    I'm not convinced I'm a large part of the situation. She got in over her head, she fell apart, wanted a rescuer, and unfortunately this time I didn't have an answer for her worse than I was aware financial problem.

    She was clear in her metaphoric email which explained this.

    She was happy overall, with me. I'm capable of being objective about myself. I was there, you have to take my word. She thinks I intentionally held back from her financially. This is an irrational thought. It isn't true. She panicked under stress and she started jumping to wrong conclusions, she started confusing facts with feelings. Because I was no longer able to provide large financial sums, that was that. Poof, gone. Interestingly enough she previously was less selfish in her pursuits, as she spent plenty on me. However, under great stress, her number one goal was that dream, that image, and nothing was going to get in her way. I was no longer needed because what she wanted and needed most right away was a lot of money. It wasn't her original master plan, exploitation, to use me, but that's how it turned out. She couldn't control her self-indulgence under stress. She then strugled to communicate directly, her increased stress.

    Now, her fear is exposure, humiliation...and...she is still in the self-indulgent I don't have to answer to anyone phase. It's not just about the infj, it's not just about her. It's also not just about me either.

    She easily could allow me access to my own home. Instead she is telling people it is her home. She easily could make a transaction where I would allow her to live in our home, but pay me back through another transaction. She is capable and does have the means...but she isn't doing any of this. Why? Self-indulgence. That's why. She says she's going to pay me back but when asked, she is secretive about how. When the two above things were mentioned, her response?

    She said she call the police and not allow me to enter my own home. I'm not looking forward to that one. The other? She was caught off guard. She has the ability to make me go away, but she's not taking that option. My conclusion is she thinks she can get away with lies, exploitation, cover up. She says and insists that she'll pay me. She has aggressively insisted on this from day one. But, I of course don't trust anybody who could door slam another for any reason.

    I'm wondering if she will permanently stay in this state of mind, or is it months years who knows...but I don't have that time. I also won't allow the possibility of my name being soiled by her to others. I have mutual friends that won't speak to me, and that has never happened before. She has had the advantage of proximity to tell them whatever she wants...and it isn't likely true. She's already lied quite a bit.

    If there was no large money, house, business and friendships, I'd door slam her back in a heartbeat. I don't have that luxury.

    At some point her/infj thought has to be okay I want and need to deal with my feelings, etc...BUT there are immediate urgent matters to take care of first or everyone will suffer. I believe she truly believes she can get away with it. Delusional.

    I also know the person she used to be, I also can follow what happened and why and even my part in it...but no matter what, it's ridiculous that two human beings can't sit down one time and go over things back and forth and take care of important things. Even if the end result is never to speak long as important issues are taken care of....

    As I said, I've known this person a very long time. We didn't just meet. I've also uncovered a past history of financial irresponsibility of hers that wasn"t involved with me. I know what I'm talking about.

    Withdrawing into problem...some problem....most of the time I was not the target of her stress. Money money money. Pulling off big projects...this is first time she wasn't going to be able to pull it off...and this is the result.

  8. #338



    I suspect you are an enfp and you are stuck in a sort of analysis paralysis that can beset our type now and then. I also recognize the pygmalian complex in how you hoped to help this person who seemed to be headed downhill. enfps create people projects, even when we dont realize it consciously-we want to help others find the path that brings them the most happiness. It sounds like you tried to do that and the person opted out in a way that was very strange to your worldview. I dont think that is condescending or insulting, but shows that you did care for this person.

    Some of her behaviors resemble those of an INTJ-the taking one data point and extralopating it to yield meaning that is irrational and inexplicable to the others, which then sets the Ni dom onto an entire new direction.

    Something that is very important to understand-you are trying to analyze this relationship in a Te way and seeking a Te explanation from her..."Why and what was your rationale for acting in such an apparently irrational, unreasonable way?" "Surely, you must have had some reason that, once I hear, will help me understand why you acted the way you did, so that I can forgive you or at least avoid and plan for this in the future?" The need for explanation, for some attempt at rationalization, for some amount of reasoning and a need to speak this conversation aloud to the other person is very much an enfp thing....and she is an INFJ. She doesnt need to do this, thus you waste your time trying to get her to.

    So instead you have come here to try and speak with these INFJs and reach that same level of analytical sometimes things dont hurt so much once you can understand the "why" behind the hurtful action. But I think what you are seeing here with the INFJs is the same thing you see with your INFJ-they feel you are being overly analytical and not listening, and they are, in their own way, asking you to stop having the conversation.

    Instead you keep reframing the convo in Te flavored Fi terms trying to reapproach the topic rationally.

    I totally get what you are dealing with and your need to talk about and analyze the problem. I do this myself endlessly. (haha, try dating an INTJ-we seriously talk about problems like this for hours and hours and hours until every little bit is ironed out )

    I have a great deal of sympathy for your situation, and I do suspect this particular INFJ was a little off kilter-but you will NEVER get to have the convo that you need to sort out the emotions that trouble you, with her, and she will not respond to the type of reasoning you would choose to employ in that conversation-thus I would suggest finding a legal intermediary to handle the financial aspects of the situation and cutting her out of your life as much as possible and learning to work through the emotional side, understanding you may not ever find a satisfying conclusion as to the hows and whys of her behavior.

  9. #339


    It's not a matter of "if" there will be a conversation and confrontation, it's a matter of "when...".......We both own the house. I plan on walking through "my" front door. She's been in the newly built home for about a month to my knowledge. I say to my knowledge because I obtained that info from others. She refuses to answer the question of when she moved into the home.

    A lot of the daily communication regarding the home is in another country, and another language. She handled a lot of that alone when I was not there to do it. To my knowledge she has moved into our home. She has passed off the home as only hers, inexplicably, to others. I plan on walking through my front door. That's what I've been wanting to avoid. She is not telling people the truth. To unsuspecting others, I have nothing to do with this house for which I paid a lot of money. I never in a million years expected a door slam nor the lies and cover up after.

    She is also not a project of mine. 9 years. I've known her 9 yeards and half of that has been every day independent to interdependent communication and living. It wasn't co-dependent. I wasn't her rescuer, because she didn't need one. That was only recently, and only temporarily through a challeneging period that had an end date.

    She did/does have a tendency to buddy up to female Esfj mother hens...a couple....where she has let them smother her. The Esfj mother hen type and I are like oil and water. I often find in my experience they are competitive for the attention and affection of the infj. I am and have been in their way as an obstacle. But that stuff was easily manageable.

    Anyway, she did have a tendency to allow the mother hen type to coddle her a definitely was a repeated pattern. Both of examples I'm thinking were highly successful women professionally too.

    I haven't even been in our finished house yet. I worked incredibly hard for it....but image a lot of effort, a long on an ocean in a gated community. I was reluctant to add this type of info...but perhaps it's necessary to explain that I went through all the work, the sacrifices to make something like that happen...and I've yet to walk in the front door. She's been hiding what's been going on with it. I made the mistake imo of waiting, of not really understanding a door her time and benefit of doubt.

    Now it's no longer about her. It is in the sense that I want her to be happy, have what wants and needs etc...but make no mistake at this point it is absolutely not about her. I'm willing to make it win/win....limit her exposure and humiliation etc...but she isn't taking that. I literally have to have a confrontation because of the house. I plan on living there until we resolve anything else. That should be interesting.

    So, this is also about someone trying to physically block me from what's also mine. This is about someone lying to everyone else about the situation. I have no doubts that the documented info that I will provide will surprise a lot of people. It will take her humiliation factor to maximum. That makes her dangerous.

    I do have a stong Enfp I also have a strong Entp side....when younger it was more Estp meets Esfp down the middle.

    I've heard multiple remarks here of "if" I don't just walk away and let her keep the money....there is no if....she isn't keeping it.

    I've also heard remarks here that make it seems like she is in charge or control of the situation. Uh no. Neither of us are....Confrontationis not if, it's when....I was just hoping to make that as low on the hostility level as possible.

    I could have just surprised her, and I thought about that. But just the surprise phone calls sent her into a huge tizzy. At this point, I'll have to bring 3rd parties with me, legal, friends, I refuse to have any one v one interaction with her.

    All of this instead of opening a door, sitting down, talking back and forth in one single conversation....where I am more than willing to make sure she's taken care of as best as possible and sent on her way.

    I spent 5 months questioning myself and blaming myself too much. I'm just seeking the eaiest, least expensive and most painless way to get what's mine, to tell other people the truth and actually physically show and prove it too.

  10. #340
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    937 so/sx


    Keep it all business if you can ... use an intermediary. I hope the country she's living in will not make your legal recourse prove difficult.

    @Orobas gave you a gift up there btw ... in case you don't recognize that.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt

    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

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