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  1. #321
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    Balance, I don't think you're hearing any of us.

    1. You can't help her.
    2. The relationship in any way shape or form is over.
    3. She won't willingly give you the money and is prepared to screw you over. Take legal action or walk away from it.

    Beyond that, we cannot provide insight. She's either an unhealthy person or one that dislikes you at this time. Neither possibility makes working with her in any way an option.

    This is not about doorslamming, enneagram, or MBTI. You were in a relationship that ended badly. That is all. You are now faced with several choices, none of which seem appealing to you, so you are hoping that somewhere in there is another option. It truly doesn't appear to the people you have asked that there is.

  2. #322

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    Fidelia, yes, actually it is very much partly about a door slam. Resources can be used to help understand situations better and to make better choices moving forward. There's great value there.

    I've never previously experienced a door slam. And, this was a blind sided, no warning, shocking, vanish into thin air without any way to contact door slam. My first response was that she had a serious health problem, died, etc...until I had a relative of hers track her down to find out different. I'm aware that to some Infj's, there's perhaps more thought and time put into the decision, but often times that leaves the other person in the dark. And, in other door slam cases, it's a very rash, panicky, hasty decision.

    Unfortunately in this situation, a healthier person became unhealthy over time in a much publicly concealed fashion.

    At this point, I'm dealing with someone who knows they have intentionally done wrong, exploitative things, covering tracks, etc...regardless of reasons. Those reasons are important to know and address, just as the immediate self preservation needs of mine and others in this situation, are important to address.

    At this time, there is a non-logical, delusional thought process of hers that thinks some things that aren't entirely hers, are hers. There is an angry defiance that she can do what she wants, how she wants it without regard to any basic rules of life. She's repeatedly volunteered to say she'll pay me money etc...without really addressing any of the other issues, in particular what bothered her in the first place.

    The problem is she has had 5 months to do something. I gave her a chance to get herself together, a lot of time...5 months is a long time considering the immediacy of attention some things have needed. After 5 months, she is angry, covering her tracks, trying to isolate me from others, and talking big voluntarily without prompting about I'll get my money. When asked a couple of simple follow up questions, as to her plan, it's clear she doesn't have one. She talks fast, nervous, defensive, angry,...all the things she normally isn't most of the time.

    To me in order to productively resolve the situation in a mutually positive manner, learning more about door slams, was something I thought would have value. Much of my interest is in getting a door slamming person to be able to come back to reality to resolve issues. You can't run and hide forever. I was able to figure out some of the things that led to the door slam. I'm interested in sitting down with a door slamming person to resolve many issues that affect many people. This is much easier, faster and more productive for both than running away forever. Temporary door slams are one thing...but to vanish into thin air without discussion, permanently only brings oneself more pain when their inaction catches up to him/her. It also causes so many wrong assumptions, because there isn't enough checking in with others.

    There's value to me to understand this particular door slam. There's value to me to understanding this in relation to the Enneagram as well.

    The feedback has been varied.

  3. #323
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    She doesn't want to discuss it with you. That's really all there is to it. You can "But why?" till the cows come home, and it will never help.

    Being that people are what they are, I'm thinking the problem you're having here with persevering in one vein and ignoring feedback (you write back, but you continue to repeat what you already wrote) might have something to do with the reason she door-slammed you. If you want something to chew on, looking at yourself and how you participated in this might actually get you somewhere, but I don't think you will ever get anywhere with this girl.

    She doesn't want to talk to you. You have to kind of take it from there. Because she can run again from the point where she is now -- she can disappear even further. I moved 500 miles, legally changed my name, changed my work, sold my car, kept an unlisted phone number, and never spoke again to anyone who knew me and the person I wanted to get away from when I was 30 years old. I have no regrets.

    If I were you, I'd take action while she can still be found.

  4. #324

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    And that says a lot.

    Feelings aren't facts.

    I'm not concerned about being able to find her, now, or in the future.

  5. #325
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    She doesn't want to discuss it with you. That's really all there is to it. You can "But why?" till the cows come home, and it will never help.

    Being that people are what they are, I'm thinking the problem you're having here with persevering in one vein and ignoring feedback (you write back, but you continue to repeat what you already wrote) might have something to do with the reason she door-slammed you. If you want something to chew on, looking at yourself and how you participated in this might actually get you somewhere, but I don't think you will ever get anywhere with this girl.

    She doesn't want to talk to you. You have to kind of take it from there. Because she can run again from the point where she is now -- she can disappear even further. I moved 500 miles, legally changed my name, changed my work, sold my car, kept an unlisted phone number, and never spoke again to anyone who knew me and the person I wanted to get away from when I was 30 years old. I have no regrets.

    If I were you, I'd take action while she can still be found.
    Well said.

    BalanceFind, you are not owed an explanation of why she was bothered in the first place or why she cut off contact with you. I know you want one, but she doesn't have to give it to you and probably won't. And that means that you are probably not going to get the kind of closure you want here. No amount of processing and regurgitating the known factors is going to reveal the unknown ones.

    All you are owed is your legal share of the finances that were comingled when you were together. That is what you should be pursuing, IMO. She has been more than clear that she wants nothing to do with you, and there's nothing you can do about that, but you don't have to do the financials on her timeline if that's not what the law dictates.

  6. #326
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Well said.

    BalanceFind, you are not owed an explanation of why she was bothered in the first place or why she cut off contact with you. I know you want one, but she doesn't have to give it to you and probably won't. And that means that you are probably not going to get the kind of closure you want here. No amount of processing and regurgitating the known factors is going to reveal the unknown ones.

    All you are owed is your legal share of the finances that were comingled when you were together. That is what you should be pursuing, IMO. She has been more than clear that she wants nothing to do with you, and there's nothing you can do about that, but you don't have to do the financials on her timeline if that's not what the law dictates.
    Well said.

  7. #327
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    @BalanceFind: Dear ENTP, .

    [You do not want this girl. I would cut my loses and run. If we're talking about a lot of money, I would take legal action.]

  8. #328

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    Vanishing into thin air is not clear. It's vanishing into thin air. Her actions have hurt herself, have hurt me, and have hurt other 3rd parties too. Being passive aggressive with inaction, is action. But it isn't final. Finality is addressing necessary things that need to be addressed. You can run and hide, but eventually you will be found, and you will be exposed, and the truth will be told. As scary as that is, it's always better to get it over with right away because damage to yourself and all others is often times much less. Vanishing into thin air is temporary avoidance of issues that will be dealt with, with or without you, sooner or later. Then, whether you like it or not, whether you are ready or not, you will answer to everything.

    I was hopeful to save her from herself.

    The issue is if and how an overly out of control self-indulgent infj can help themselves and receive help from others. The issue is getting the low functioning infj in this situation to stop acting like a low level Estp before doing more damage to herself in the long run. It has to be exhausting to keep up. That isn't code for all infj's or all this or that. That is the reality of this particular situation.

    It's unfortunate. I don't enjoy taking homes away from people. I don't enjoy taking money away from people. I don't enjoy exposing her actions and behavior to others. If she were willing to actually talk about her problems, she'd have had much more support than she ever realized, from me, from others. That's really a good lesson here. Don't be afraid to speak up if you are having problems. You don't have to always try to conceal them in favor of trying to keep up a certain image to people. You'd be surprised at some of the positive responses that you may receive. It will always be a more effective approach to at leadt first attempt to solve problems directly. To many people, 5 months in this type of situation is a very long time. I'm one of those people.

    She will now be exposed to a lot of people. That wasn't necessary. I gladly would have kept her actions and secrets, just that, secret. But she somehow thinks she can do what she wants how she wants it, regardless of rules and laws and basic decency...without repercussion. That's delusional. Out of respect and courtesy, I showed 5 months of self-restraint. That's enough. She isn't understanding right now that feelings aren't facts. When an infj withdraws under stress, the infj then does things sometimes based only on feelings and not also facts. Facts matter. Facts matter a lot. Sometimes when in this state an infj or this particular infj stops checking in and makes incorrect assumptions and forms emotional opinions not based on facts or reality. Many wrong assumptions. Basic direct communication solves this quickly and much more easily.

    I'm fortunate and lucky in life to have had one good parent who loved me unconditionally in life. I don't have an overwhelming desire to sell out anything and everything in the name of self-preservation. Prior to to this great stress, she didn't either.

  9. #329
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    Lol! This is the point at which Dr. Laura usually hangs up the phone on people!

    Balance, it's not your job to "save her from herself". She doesn't want you to and she doesn't want to talk to you. Fair or not, that's what you've got. The only person's behaviour/decision-making you can control is your own.

  10. #330

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    My mom is an INFJ, and she does this ALL. THE. TIME. She's still wonderful, though. When she does it I'm just like "yep, it's about that time again."

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