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  1. #311
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    1w2 so/sx


    Agreed. The more you keep stirring things up, the more you will either annoy her (and make her less cooperative) or the more emotional white noise you will create (which requires absence from you to deal with). Either way, give her some space and do what you have to do legally to deal with the money end of things.

  2. #312


    Thanks for the feedback. Imo, her increased stress put a lot of pressure on my last visit to be perfect. She wasn't "right" in that the most minor things upset her much more than usual. The "roughing it" for a long time was unusual and I know how infj's are particular about their surroundings. I respect that. I was proud of her. But it got to be too much too long for her. She started becoming jealous of our local friends in another country and their perceived happiness. As I stated, these conditions, combined with long distance put a lot of increased pressure on my visits. She was irrationally scared to pull off some of the financial situations where she needed me. In the past we both had a 50/50 financial relationship. Never an issue except when once in a while she spent more money than she could afford to spend. But she previously reeled it in enough. We had exactly one time where she asked when she'd be getting another large sum of money for something, and I snapped back briefly hurt by her asking and stunned by her asking. I said don't you realize how hard I worked to get you the other stuff. I said there wouldn't be more any time soon. But there would be down the road. I wasn't playing games, it was all I could do at the time. The sad thing is she was very comortable upper middle class. It wasn't enough for her.

    So, she didn't set out to use me for money. But because of stress for a variety of reasons, mostly her doing, but some me too, she was in a bad self-indulgent way. It was not possible to politely stop her spending. I knew her wrath would be great because I knew she wasn't being herself.

    Multiple people have said give time and space. Problem is I have no idea what she is doing with that. She is living in a home that is part mine. We both worked years for it. She has said something to our friends because out of the blue they now won't get back to me. She also has a language advantage with them. In essence she has ruined the last 5 months of my life.

    My regret at this time is that I waited this long. I should have turned right around imo and flew back within a weeks and taken care of it. This is clearly a situation where she thinks she can act like some of these things are hers that aren't. She was willing to exploit me out of her being in a bad way.

    After 5 months, her only words to me was I'll get my money some time. ? She didn't even know what I wanted. I wanted to know she was alive, safe where she was all those things. I have every intention of living in our new home there. The way she spoke it was as if it was hers and she'll just maybe pay me when she felt like it. It was delusional.

    It's easy to read thi stuff and say what's the problem? Take legal action cut her off. And, it looks headed that way. But as I said, 9 yrs, I know the high functioning infj that she has been most of that time. She has been acting like a low functioning Estp. Ruthless, surprise. I can't get her to sit down with me and happily peacefully calmly go over things and work things out for both. I'd be happy to do that. But I no longer have time, I no longer will allow her to speak ill of me to others if she is doing that too....without me clearing that up with those people. 5 months. She has no change. Defensive, anger, covering her tracks.

    No, I don't have any more time for time and space. The reason is I'm not convinced she wouldn't just vanish permanently which would destroy my life even more.

  3. #313


    Your need to continue providing more detail and context and information long after the point of outside perspective has been achieved gives readers here the impression that you need our agreement and approval and sympathy with your perspective more. If I was you, I'd be asking myself why that is.
    "The purpose of life is to be defeated by greater and greater things." - Rainer Maria Rilke

  4. #314
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    1w2 so/sx


    Whether you feel you can explain her inconsiderate behaviour as the result of stress or not, it does not change the result. She's had ample time to deal with the financial end of things, she's proven herself somewhat irresponsible with money in the past (even if for explainable reasons) and has occasionally taken you for granted. Given the fact that she has given you no plan for getting back the money and has cut off contact with you, I believe the only option you have left is to either forget about the money (which you can't afford to do), or else take legal action to arrange a repayment plan.

    I understand what it is like to watch someone you love not doing well and treating you badly in the process. It's very difficult to walk away from the personal investment, but at some point you have to face that the person does not have the personal resources to carry on a relationship at that time and that they also are not acting with your best interests in mind. I would have never dreamed that my boyfriend of five years would blatantly lie about me or that he would behave as he did twoards the end. I didn't want to believe my judgement was that bad, I truly cared about his well-being and I could see that he was imploding. He acted out of character not only towards me but at work and towards his friends. His good moments made me believe that his real feelings were deep and sincere and that the investment I had made would not be wasted if I waited a little longer. Ultimately though, it didn't change the fact that we could not carry on a reciprocal or healthy relationship and I needed to get out.

    I just don't understand what you are seeking from the people here, as the situation seems pretty clear and no matter what other details you include, it still indicates that probably the relationship is over and you need to cut your losses in whatever way you see fit.

  5. #315


    Thanks for the feedback. I'm not seeking agreement or approval, more insight I suppose.

    I'm very familiar with the Enneagram, and she's a 4w3. Her behavior is text book level 6 and level of Enneagram 4 and 3. She's never been at the low levels of those with me.

    I suppose what I am trying to do is help her and myself at the same time. I would say I've gone from walking on egg shells to a very real fear that she is in an unstable phase where she is willing to say anything and do anything to protect a false image to others. If that means throw me under the bus then so be it.

    When an infj door slams, which is new for me, he/she doesn't check in at all and assumes the other person's thoughts, feelings, behavior. And in this case she has assumed wrong. She thinks I'm out for retaliation for what she did to me. She doesn't understand that I do want to help her, but I have a responsibility to myself and others to protect myself too.

    I spoke with her again on phone Internationally. A bit longer, and it was mostly rage, anger, defensive from her. I tried to tell her that she has assumed wrong. I tried to tell her what I wanted and needed to do. She kept repeating that she has been working hard to get me money, blaming me for bothering her. I waited 5 months to "bother" her. When I told her I had every right to live in our new home, she said no I didn't. I'm afraid to even go there without other people at this point who are either friends, or business and legal people.

    There has to be a way to "reach" an unhealthy troubled Infj 4w3. She's still at that I don't have to answer to anyone stage of defiance, anger. 100 percent self absorbed. I tried to inform her of our friend's death, and something else. She paused for a 5 seconds and said "I'm sorry" and went straight back to other things. I gave her other 3rd party good news, same result, less seconds of that's good, I'm happy for them. Then it was right back to her being mad at the world.

    I don't trust her at this point. I also will not throw away my and our hard work in that country and just leave. That's an unrealistic request of hers.

    She is angry and blaming me for all of her troubles. Generally if we were both local, and no other loose ends. I'd walk away and she may or may not reappear months or years down the road. I don't have any more time. So I have to now force confrontation, something she doesn't handle well as an Infj. I've tried every kind way I know. It's just very frustrating.

  6. #316


    Quote Originally Posted by BalanceFind View Post
    I suppose what I am trying to do is help her and myself at the same time. I would say I've gone from walking on egg shells to a very real fear that she is in an unstable phase where she is willing to say anything and do anything to protect a false image to others. If that means throw me under the bus then so be it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lenian View Post
    Hey everyone!! I am in a relationship with an INFJ and really would like INFJ help here.

    I recently notice I don't feel as secure around my SO as I usually am. It's because my SO is insecure and I believe projects this anxiety onto me. In turn she wonders why I am insecure then her empathy locks on to my 'pseudo' insecurity and the downward spiral is on.

    Now, I just want to love her.
    BalanceFind and Lenian should commiserate. You two have similar stories that you keep magnifying with details. Take a break from seeking validation from the INFJs in your life and on the forum. Maybe you could learn things from one another. That whole no door (slammed) shut, without a window being opened kind of thing. Let the window be self awareness and insight.
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  7. #317


    I don't have time to step back. What a door slamming person doesn't understand is that life doesn't stop. It keeps going. There are basic rules to life that everyone must follow without exception, or there will be severe consequences.

    If the above Infj, or any other Infj put him or herself in my mentioned Infj's shoes, I promise you that you would not someone to come in a cold hearted ruthless legal fashion and crush you figuratively. If the Infj thinks it's bad now, that scenario would be waaaaaaaay worse for this Infj.

    It makes a lot more sense to resolve issues, loose ends in a productive way first. It also makes a lot ore sense to have the courage to re-visit hasty decisions for more productive solutions.

    Helping a struggling Infj from him or herself is quite the challenge. I'm not the type of person to abandon others. I know it's a bad low level Estp phase out of fear of deprivation. I can't stop it, but I know what it is...And I know enough to know that some day, she'll have many regrets about this behavior. She is after all an Infj.

    Sure, the type of relationship would change, but I don't care for people, and then throw them away like a gum wrapper. That just isn't who I am as a person. I wanted to avoid legal action, crushing the Infj even more than the misery she is going through right now.

    As stated before, it is anyone's right to door slam, but there will always be consequences to doing so. In this case, harsh confrontational consequences, deprivation and all the things feared that easily could have been avoided.

  8. #318
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    4 so/sp


    1.All of this goes WAAAYYYY beyond the lovely doorslamming concept and infj's in general. You're talking about a Business+Financial+Properties+Personal relationship gone amuk, and which began going amuk prior to her supposed grand finale 'doorslam'.
    2. All of your 'care'/concerns for her are tied up in business/money . I don't even think you've mentioned any of her good qualities, actually - her supposed 'healthy' phase of 9 years is only in the context of how the business was going and money usage, and her actions being convenient and alligning with your own interests.

    When an infj door slams, which is new for me, he/she doesn't check in at all and assumes the other person's thoughts, feelings, behavior.
    3.No. This isn't a cut and dry concept. I'm also tired of being associated with your notions of what an infj is, and what 'doorslamming' is.

    4.Because your grievances are pretty much only tied to your business/money/property and how you're being negatively impacted by her jumping ship, treat it as a business venture turned sour, as again, you haven't cited anything in all of your posts which highlights the actual qualities you like about her. And again, she doesn't want to be involved with you. Take care of the business.

    5.I challenge you not to respond to this 'insight' (which you are seeking) with 5 more paragraphs telling us again that she's an unhealthy 4w3 infj who is being unreasonable. If you don't trust her, and if you think she's so unhealthy, then for the love of god be an adult and provide the business closure that is apparently needed. This stopped being personal/truly intimate long ago, probably. And she as and adult needs to accept responsibility for the actions she's chosen to take.
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  9. #319


    Fidelia provided some good help. I'm seeking strategic help based on personal experience and knowledge. I suppose I was hoping to see or hear something other than the strategy of legal action and destroying someone that I don't want to destroy.

    As for the immediate above,
    "Be an adult." It doesn't make me less of an adult to want to exhaust every other strategy or possibility first. The best solutions aren't always easy to find. To me, there has to be something in between do nothing and legal action. An extreme solution will not benefit anyone in this situation, a situation which involves far more than two people as well.

  10. #320


    Quote Originally Posted by Vasilisa View Post
    That whole no door (slammed) shut, without a window being opened kind of thing. Let the window be self awareness and insight.
    I'm sorry...I'm afraid you've got it wrong or don't see it entirely..which was never the point.

    Forums to some are for general ideas..and I wasn't expecting any person to be general manager of the universe. But thanks.

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