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  1. #261
    Senior Member mochajava's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phobik View Post
    How so?
    From my understanding, when interacting with an INFJ, there are four-gazzillion-and-a-half-layers-of-access plus the hellspawn hounds and lazer-death-rays, which can take five-and-three-quarter Aeons to ever cross, so how does it go agains the nature?
    Seems to me there's no need to add anything, since it's all already there.:rolleyes2:
    Wait what? I'm the opposite -- I'm totally outgoing/open as soon as I meet people, and then either the friendship takes or doesn't. And if it takes and works, it's the best thing ever and lasts a really long time. And if it doesn't take that's fine too. Or, worst case, it works for the other person but not for me. Then some adjustments have to be made (we're hanging out weekly, not daily or hourly... or "no, I won't do the umpteenth favor for you").

  2. #262
    unscannable Tigerlily's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phobik View Post
    Who says I have problems?
    Are you currently involved with an INFJ? Have you ever been?
    Time is a delicate mistress.

  3. #263
    FRACTALICIOUS phobik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tigerlily View Post
    Are you currently involved with an INFJ? Have you ever been?
    No.
    Yes.

  4. #264
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    Though I wouldn't permanently doorslam someone, I do partially and temporarily doorslam people. Does anyone else do this, too?

    It's what happens when someone does something that I'm completely shocked about. While being shocked, I shut down. I no longer talk about the problem, and I do not talk to the person unless they talk to me first. I pretend to be fine but I avoid them at the same time.

    Then, usually, one of two things happen: either I'm ready to talk to them about it, or I've decided the problem is no longer worth bringing up.

    Either way, it's not a complete doorslam, it's not permanent, and it's only used when I'm surprised by someone's hurtfulness.

  5. #265
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    If I doorslam you, it's permanently. I wouldn't even hesitate doing it to a family member. Once you're out, you're out for good, and I'll erase every single memory of that person. But I mostly only doorslam people I don't want to waste my time and energy on, which quite frankly is a lot of fucking people.

  6. #266
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Well, I'll give an example. When I was twenty, my mom decided to marry this guy. I really didn't know him that well. Didn't really want to. Thought it was a bad idea because I didn't think she knew him all that well either.

    They were married for about 15 years. He had substance abuse issues off an on the whole time. He drove my car, with my kids in it on more than one occasion because I didn't realize he was stoned until he started driving funny -- I haven't been around druggies that much and was naive. And once, while my husband was driving over the road, he (step-dad) made me miss seeing him (husband) on a holiday because he (step-dad) was faking chest pains at the ER in order to get pills.

    After the divorce the drug abuse got worse and I felt bad for him because I think my mom broke his heart, and also, he is my youngest brother's father and I want to help him for my brother's sake.

    He had a house of his own, but he would tell me it was so lonely there alone and I thought he was clean, so I let him live with us several times. Each time, he ended up falling off the wagon. The last time was almost a year ago.

    I often don't sleep well at night, so I was taking a nap while the kids were in school. When I woke up, I thought it smelled like someone was cooking something. I went into the kitchen and found that two burners on the stove were left on, had been from what I could tell, for hours.

    My step-dad had gotten his weekly meds from the local mental health center (they came in a bubble pack each week to make it easy for him) and he was sitting on the sofa out of his head, practically drooling. When I checked his meds, I saw that he had taken out the entire week's worth of certain pills. Apparently he had eaten the good ones all up -- yum yum!

    I had to call the mental health center and ask what I should do because I was worried he was in danger of overdose. I tried rousing him and was able to get a response, but I had frankly had enough. Years of this stuff was just enough. It was beyond what I was able to cope with. It was beyond what I wanted my family exposed to.

    So I told him he had to go. He had been staying at the homeless shelter before he came to our house, so I asked him if he wanted to go to the hospital or to the shelter. He was begging me not to make him leave -- made me feel horrible -- but I couldn't do it anymore. It wasn't helping him and it was hurting myself and my family and had the potential to be a real danger to us. He chose the shelter, so my husband and I took him and his car to the shelter. While he was talking to the staff to see if he could go back, I took my house key off his key ring -- I'd had things go missing and didn't really want to give him access to my house.

    I haven't talked to him since. I don't hate him. I hope very much that he gets well -- especially for my brother's sake. But the thing is, oftentimes substance abusers develop very good manipulation skills and my step-dad knew all the buttons to push. He was really good at talking me into stuff -- like giving him money, etc. I didn't want to keep that pattern up and I was also just really tired of dealing with it. I mean, I've known this man for twenty years now and it's been the same song and dance that whole time, he's in his late fifties and not likely to change. Also, I'm not qualified to help someone like that. I have a husband and four kids -- I don't have the resources to deal with it.

    So, yeah, I doorslammed him. If, at some point, I have credible evidence of him being clean for an extended period of time, I would be willing to resume the relationship. Until them, I just can't do it. Not only can't, but won't. If that means I have issues, I can live with having issues, you know?
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  7. #267
    Senior Member mochajava's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Random Ness View Post
    Though I wouldn't permanently doorslam someone, I do partially and temporarily doorslam people. Does anyone else do this, too?
    I do this too!

    It's what happens when someone does something that I'm completely shocked about. While being shocked, I shut down. I no longer talk about the problem, and I do not talk to the person unless they talk to me first. I pretend to be fine but I avoid them at the same time.

    Then, usually, one of two things happen: either I'm ready to talk to them about it, or I've decided the problem is no longer worth bringing up.
    I did this with a classmate/coworker. She got very, very demanding of my time and lots of favors (review this for me, let me use some work you did earlier, put me in touch with people) without ever thanking me or offering to reciprocate. Each demand just engendered another demand, and gentle no's like, "I'm busy", "I don't have the energy" were reasons for her to make fun of me in ways I didn't like (e.g., I didn't want to get dinner with her on a particular day and hadn't dropped by her desk, so she said "are you being reclusive again?"). I am introverted, but reclusive is a little mean... I wasn't a fan of that.

    Either way, it's not a complete doorslam, it's not permanent, and it's only used when I'm surprised by someone's hurtfulness.
    Exactly -- I added some more distance in the relationship. I think she got the idea that dropping by for 40 minutes at a time wasn't okay. I slammed the door on being close and put it back into acquaintances, because I couldn't meet this person's demands for social time and informational support.

  8. #268
    Senior Member tibby's Avatar
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    I do the doorslam people mentally and avoid them if I can because at that point they kind of stop existing to me. I might delete their phone numbers, erase them from any social network lists (I do like closure), but if I have to deal with them I'll be in civil terms but I won't waste my energies on them and I am not interested. EDIT: And ofc I can flexible even when I'm certain that's how it is in the present time.

    I've had it done to me once (by an ENTP) and man it's brutal though. It's like you're just, erased.

  9. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    Well, I'll give an example. When I was twenty, my mom decided to marry this guy. I really didn't know him that well. Didn't really want to. Thought it was a bad idea because I didn't think she knew him all that well either.
    Almost same here. My emotionally needy mom decided to live with this guy. I hate being dragged into these ambiguous situations.


    They were married for about 15 years. He had substance abuse issues off an on the whole time. He drove my car, with my kids in it on more than one occasion because I didn't realize he was stoned until he started driving funny -- I haven't been around druggies that much and was naive. And once, while my husband was driving over the road, he (step-dad) made me miss seeing him (husband) on a holiday because he (step-dad) was faking chest pains at the ER in order to get pills.

    After the divorce the drug abuse got worse and I felt bad for him because I think my mom broke his heart, and also, he is my youngest brother's father and I want to help him for my brother's sake.
    I relate to that bit. "For the sake of an innocent soul". I don't know how many times I have stepped into some situation and try to diplomatically sub for an absent relative. Now I think twice. I figure if someone is able to father/give birth to a kid, it is their responsibility to raise that child. But then, it is not always so easy. I agonize over 'am I enabling that immature parent' or 'is it the Christian/right thing to do?' standing in for a parent who is 'too busy/too busy working/has terrible working hours/forgot s/he has to feed his/her kid'.

    He had a house of his own, but he would tell me it was so lonely there alone and I thought he was clean, so I let him live with us several times. Each time, he ended up falling off the wagon. The last time was almost a year ago.

    I often don't sleep well at night, so I was taking a nap while the kids were in school. When I woke up, I thought it smelled like someone was cooking something. I went into the kitchen and found that two burners on the stove were left on, had been from what I could tell, for hours.

    My step-dad had gotten his weekly meds from the local mental health center (they came in a bubble pack each week to make it easy for him) and he was sitting on the sofa out of his head, practically drooling. When I checked his meds, I saw that he had taken out the entire week's worth of certain pills. Apparently he had eaten the good ones all up -- yum yum!

    I had to call the mental health center and ask what I should do because I was worried he was in danger of overdose. I tried rousing him and was able to get a response, but I had frankly had enough. Years of this stuff was just enough. It was beyond what I was able to cope with. It was beyond what I wanted my family exposed to.
    That's where I would have wondered - "Should I have known better"? Charity is indeed a costly thing but is it right to drag kids into this? I would have wondered and taken too much blame I think. I admire you Cafe for putting up with this kind of man-child! I am surprised your husband let you put up with this! In your shoes, if hubby says no, that would be a good enough reason for me to tell dad-in-law to move out presto!

    So I told him he had to go. He had been staying at the homeless shelter before he came to our house, so I asked him if he wanted to go to the hospital or to the shelter. He was begging me not to make him leave -- made me feel horrible -- but I couldn't do it anymore. It wasn't helping him and it was hurting myself and my family and had the potential to be a real danger to us. He chose the shelter, so my husband and I took him and his car to the shelter. While he was talking to the staff to see if he could go back, I took my house key off his key ring -- I'd had things go missing and didn't really want to give him access to my house.

    I haven't talked to him since. I don't hate him. I hope very much that he gets well -- especially for my brother's sake. But the thing is, oftentimes substance abusers develop very good manipulation skills and my step-dad knew all the buttons to push. He was really good at talking me into stuff -- like giving him money, etc. I didn't want to keep that pattern up and I was also just really tired of dealing with it. I mean, I've known this man for twenty years now and it's been the same song and dance that whole time, he's in his late fifties and not likely to change. Also, I'm not qualified to help someone like that. I have a husband and four kids -- I don't have the resources to deal with it.

    So, yeah, I doorslammed him. If, at some point, I have credible evidence of him being clean for an extended period of time, I would be willing to resume the relationship. Until them, I just can't do it. Not only can't, but won't. If that means I have issues, I can live with having issues, you know?
    I bolded this part. For me, in your shoes, it would have gotten to the point where i would be just civil 'for the sake of the little step-brother'. Or maybe instead, I would think, Step-bro is grown-up now and he can see for himself what kind of dad he has. I would still be careful with this guy around my kids (especially if they are pretty teenagers). I'd be hyper-vigilant.

    Again, I say bravo. You're charity itself. But when it comes to some people, I think, a good doorslam or a good kick in the butt is the most charitable thing someone can do to them! If that means I too have issues with anger or whatever, then, yea, I too can live with having issues!

    Count me in!

  10. #270
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Immaculate Cloud View Post
    Almost same here. My emotionally needy mom decided to live with this guy. I hate being dragged into these ambiguous situations.



    I relate to that bit. "For the sake of an innocent soul". I don't know how many times I have stepped into some situation and try to diplomatically sub for an absent relative. Now I think twice. I figure if someone is able to father/give birth to a kid, it is their responsibility to raise that child. But then, it is not always so easy. I agonize over 'am I enabling that immature parent' or 'is it the Christian/right thing to do?' standing in for a parent who is 'too busy/too busy working/has terrible working hours/forgot s/he has to feed his/her kid'.



    That's where I would have wondered - "Should I have known better"? Charity is indeed a costly thing but is it right to drag kids into this? I would have wondered and taken too much blame I think. I admire you Cafe for putting up with this kind of man-child! I am surprised your husband let you put up with this! In your shoes, if hubby says no, that would be a good enough reason for me to tell dad-in-law to move out presto!



    I bolded this part. For me, in your shoes, it would have gotten to the point where i would be just civil 'for the sake of the little step-brother'. Or maybe instead, I would think, Step-bro is grown-up now and he can see for himself what kind of dad he has. I would still be careful with this guy around my kids (especially if they are pretty teenagers). I'd be hyper-vigilant.

    Again, I say bravo. You're charity itself. But when it comes to some people, I think, a good doorslam or a good kick in the butt is the most charitable thing someone can do to them! If that means I too have issues with anger or whatever, then, yea, I too can live with having issues!

    Count me in!
    Well, part of it is that it isn't my step-brother, he's my mother's biological son, a lot younger than me, yes, but he is like a brother to my own children. He only just turned 18 and left for college and our mom had already abandoned him to be with a creepy con-artist guy. I hated for him to be abandoned by that parent, too.

    Obviously I put up with way too much, which is, to me an indicator that I have co-dependent tendencies, which is why I can't do the present but civil thing, that and he never contacts me unless he wants something -- he's really only called me a couple of times this last year.

    And now that you mention it, he was starting to try to sweet talk my younger daughter -- fifteen now, and very cute. My older daughter is pretty, but is tall and has a no-nonsense vibe that tends to intimidate people.

    So yeah, that whole thing was long past due.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

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