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  1. #241
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    Yeah, I don't think this is a problems for people interacting (or not, not anymore) with the INFJ (since they proved their worth by doorslamming ya) but for the INFJ him/herself and maybe not learning from the experience as much as they could and understanding just how accurate their character assessment or good judgement is.
    I've doorslammed four people in my forty years. One of them I let come back though not in the same capacity they once held. All of them committed major boundary violations -- sometimes over the course of many years. Eventually, there was an event that showed me, under no uncertain terms, that I could make excuses for their behavior no more, that the relationship was damaging to me and not helping them in any significant way.

    I am so prone to codependent behavior, that it is very difficult for me to stay in a relationship where I have been an enabler without continuing to engage in enabling behaviors. I'm working at not creating new co-dependent relationships, but it is so ingrained in my nature to ignore my own feelings for the benefit of others and to tolerate boundary violations to avoid conflict and rejection, that for me, it has been a healthy step to be able to say "No. You don't get to keep doing that to me." To stay in a co-dependent relationship while trying to become less co-dependent would be like an alcoholic trying to recover from alcoholism while while working as a bar tender. Yeah, it would be great if I was that self-actualized, but I'm just not.

    Seriously, if somebody gets doorslammed by me, I have bent over backwards and twisted myself up like a pretzel in hopes of being able to make things work. I know I sound like a stone-cold bitch, but I'm very loyal, accepting, and give people the benefit of the doubt well beyond the point where most people would. It's not any kind a virtue, it's just something I can't seem to help doing.

    The difference between me and what you might consider normal is that I don't speak up as soon as I should, that I don't speak up as loudly as I should, and that when I make a decision to end a relationship it appears extremely abrupt and I often stick with that decision more rigidly than another type might.

    Looking back at my own doorslamming experiences, I think what I've learned is how to recognize and avoid someone I should not enter into a relationship with. I'm also learning how to say no to doing things for or with people when I don't have the time, money, or energy to do them or maybe when I just don't want to or don't feel like it -- because those are valid reasons, too. As I learn to do that, I believe that doorslamming will become unnecessary behavior because my relationships will not get in that condition.

    It seems like people want to focus on, what to me, is the wrong end of the problem. They want to invalidate the decision to end a relationship, when often the relationship should never have begun or the relationship has been allowed to go on too long or too dysfunctionally. It's this tendency toward invalidating ourselves and considering our own feelings and desires less valid than those of others that create this situation, more often than not. So further invalidation is not the solution, IMO.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  2. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    So what is a non-passive-aggressive way to end a relationship you no longer want to participate in, or is that just not an option?
    Who cares?

    The approach has been categorized, not judged.

    Do you think the passive-aggressive approach is wrong?

    I usually don't like passive-aggressive people, but this context is a bit different.

  3. #243
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    It seems like people want to focus on, what to me, is the wrong end of the problem. They want to invalidate the decision to end a relationship, when often the relationship should never have begun or the relationship has been allowed to go on too long or too dysfunctionally. It's this tendency toward invalidating ourselves and considering our own feelings and desires less valid than those of others that create this situation, more often than not. So further invalidation is not the solution, IMO.
    No, it's not. But you hit the nail on the head with self-actualization. I keep telling my INFJ brother (who is 11 years older than me btw) that the solution is to start relationships in a healthier manner. After relationships have taken a certain, I agree it's difficult to change them. I can definitely see, in comparison to my brother, how being slightly less accommodating in certain ways from the get go saves me from all the problems he usually faces in relationships with other people.

    My friends KNOW they I'm not gonna be doing everything they ask of me for example...and the sweet thing about the deal is that, because of the way I am that doesn't even bother them....because they also know that I only "don't care to help" in more trivial stuff. When the shit hits the fan I'm there. But I don't believe in doing favors, even to friends, as a habit.

    So yeah, door-slamming is not elegant, it probably is a necessary evil for the INFJs mental sanity, but it's something every INFJ should be mindful of in the process of self-actualization. For their own good. I'm not even talking from the perspective of the door-slammed.

  4. #244
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post

    The difference between me and what you might consider normal is that I don't speak up as soon as I should, that I don't speak up as loudly as I should, and that when I make a decision to end a relationship it appears extremely abrupt and I often stick with that decision more rigidly than another type might.
    All this applies to me to a large extent, and probably to many/most INFJs. Are most of us basically co-dependent, do you think? (not asking this in a sarcastic way...really want to know.)
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  5. #245
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    I did this to so many of my friends when I was in my teens, I’m actually surprise that even still have a friend from my childhood. I think it was because I used to put a lot of emotional investment into my friendships that if any of them let me down or sometimes just for petty reasons that would be grounds for me to never talk to them again. I think this was for two main reasons.

    A) I was very idealist of how things should be in a friendship.
    B) I used to avoid conflicts until it reached a point that I would dislike the person, without them ever realising it.

  6. #246
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mysavior View Post
    Who cares?

    The approach has been categorized, not judged.

    Do you think the passive-aggressive approach is wrong?

    I usually don't like passive-aggressive people, but this context is a bit different.
    I thought perhaps you had a solution.

    No, I don't think the passive-aggressive approach is wrong. It's not always the best approach, but it has it's place and I generally dislike it less than outright aggression.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  7. #247
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    All this applies to me to a large extent, and probably to many/most INFJs. Are most of us basically co-dependent, do you think? (not asking this in a sarcastic way...really want to know.)
    I think we might be more prone to it than is average. We like to please, we tend to have to take time to analyze things after the fact so it's easy to catch us off guard and to manipulate us emotionally, etc. We're quiet and dislike conflict and scenes. If we lacked a super-healthy dynamic growing up, it seems somewhat inevitable. I think we are a type for whom the ego is easily subjugated to the super-ego, leaving the ego underdeveloped, if that makes sense. It's almost a rite of passage to learn that it's okay to have preferences and to not always act for the good of the group, but to do what we want now and then for no reason other than we just want to.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  8. #248
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    it's a defense mechanism, enough said.

  9. #249
    unscannable Tigerlily's Avatar
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    I recently "door slammed" a "friend". I got so caught up in her drama that I allowed myself to get sucked in, only to act out and start a fight that I (subconsciously) hoped would end the friendship. It worked and I can't stand her now even though I hear she had hoped we'd get to discuss what happened. I never want to speak to her freaky ass again.

    I beat myself up over the fact that I haven't many friends, but I've never been a friend person. I always have the feeling that people don't like me so I just avoid getting involved. I'm really just thankful/lucky that I met a man who doesn't make me feel claustrophobic and understands me, otherwise I'd be very lonely and likely living with a ton of cats or shih tzu's.

    For me the door slam can occur when I'm feeling vulnerable and insecure or backed into a corner with someone I am not comfortable around. It's just easier to end the friendship rather than try and "talk" it out. I always feel that people are too self absorbed to care whether or not I am upset about something or that I'm being whiny for complaining about some stupid shit they said/did. I also don't really know when it might happen. My Husband called the last one. He was right and I'm just glad he let me play it out and no one got hurt.

    I have one online friend that I speak to regularly and I assume she likes me because we are still communicating. If we lived closer together I do think we'd be OK with one another. We might not have tons in common due to different upbringings, but we share similar morals/values.

    Oh in response to questioning whether or not we're being fair to "friends", I too have thought about my failed friendships and how I could have if (I were so inclined) salvaged the relationship. Honestly I feel as though I would have had to continue being someone I am not, to appease the friend(s). Also, friendships require a lot of attention and reserved time and I'm so involved with my immediate family, that I just don't have much time left to give.
    Quote Originally Posted by angell_m View Post
    it's a defense mechanism, enough said.
    more or less...
    Time is a delicate mistress.

  10. #250
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    Being more discriminating in the beginning and drawing clearer boundaries from the start largely prevents needing to slam doors later. I think learning to do that comes with experience and maturity for INFJs. I'm much better at it than I was at 20. I also have a tendancy to accommodate too much, over promise, or give attention to whomever most urgently demands it. When I learned to do that less, I found that people felt more secure, acted less entitled and were more appreciative of my efforts. I was also better able to keep my word without overextending myself.

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