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Thread: When an INFJ doorslams you / cuts you out of their life / breaks off contact

  1. #1641
    Member Array March's Avatar
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    Hmm, I'm thinking our sense of the importance of things is maybe getting skewed by our focus.

    From what several INFPs said on this thread, I got the impression that:
    • INFPs think any unexpressed emotion needs to be dragged into the light, even if they're just part of the background ebb and flow of life
    • INFPs don't consider timing/manner of doing that TOO important
    • It's a priority with a large P


    This is easy to believe for me because my INFP mother (having parents of a certain type really does a number on one's later skill at seeing others of that type clearly, it seems) DID think all my emotions had to do with her, and if I didn't want to share something than my stubbornness in not telling her DEFINITELY had to do with her, and she shamed and guilt-tripped me publicly and privately about that a lot of times. Even then I could see that she didn't intend that, but she saw it happened and she continued doing it.

    So probably a lot of people have had an INFP take a 'stab in the dark' and hit them right in the heart or ovaries, and for people who are sensitive to that and whose situation was a complete miscalibration on the INFP's part, the fact that it's come up often in this thread makes it sound like 'OMG, they'd like to do this all day long! Hide!'

    Whereas after a couple of rounds of questions, it seems that the truth is more like:
    • INFPs understand that 99% of people's emotions have nothing at all to do with THEM - I can be pissed off at Bob while talking to Mary, and she can either tell the difference by herself or gracefully back out when I say 'it's not you, it's something else'
    • They do want to talk about/shed light on emotions if they're relevant and aimed at them/are sincerely confusing, e.g. I'm angry at you while saying I'm NOT angry while still throwing passive-aggressive digs your way. Which seems totally fair since I don't think anyone has to stand for being actively misled
    • INFPs control their need for information at least 90% of the time
    • INFPs can be quite sensitive about how they approach talking about this, if they want to


    Probably the same thing happened with INFJs and doorslams earlier in the thread.

    • Being on the receiving end of a doorslam can be ultra painful so the memory stays with you and takes on a lot of importance
    • Most people who were being doorslammed were NOT actively malicious or abusive, so it felt completely undeserved
    • All the INFJs on the thread talk about that time when they doorslammed someone, so they must be thinking about it/getting ready for it ALL THE TIME!


    While the truth is more like INFJs hardly ever doorslam and only do so when they've run out all ability in dealing productively with the situation - I've doorslammed 3ish people in my 30 years of life, and in that same span I've lost at least 1000 relationships just because of attrition, losing interest, moving away, not staying in touch, mutual meh, etc. Even with more inveterate doorslammers, I can't imagine them doorslamming even 10% of their relationships. It's just that talking about it makes it sound like it's going on everywhere.

    Edited to add: Oh, and @Southern Kross & @PeaceBaby, thanks for putting up with all my questions! Very enlightening and reassuring. I was vacillating between 'Hmm, I've heard people say a lot of questions is off-putting and invastive' and 'But I've also heard that one of the things INFJs are annoying for is assuming things and not saying they don't understand!' and I'm glad I went with 'These are all the ways I don't understand; could you help me out?'

  2. #1642
    Senior Member Array yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    ... It's not just about satisfying a need/value/insight/feeling (that it certainly part of it though), it's also about instilling that good feeling in others. ...If you look at ESFPs, they're sometimes known as "the performer". They may like to act, dance, make music or do comedy because it feels good to them to experience that, but they also love bringing that same joy to others.
    I think the drive as to "what to do" towards satisfying that need/value/insight/feeling (how to wield the function) may be related with enneagram configuration of Fi person, as uumlau non-exclusively emphasized earlier...It can be wielded positively, negatively or in other ways...and not necessarily to invoke positive emotions in others...but to emotionally abuse (lashing out/acting out) someone when/if that someone does not elicit/yield the positive response that Fi person expects/demands of them in unhealthily wielded versions...I however think this applies much more to Fi-aux...I believe my negative impression of Fi stems from my selective memory in recalling unhealthier versions of Fi-aux...

    My elder sister (ENFP I believe) does not wield it unhealthily even she's a Fi-aux though...

    I think Fi-dom relies (is dependent) much more on internally generated satisfaction whereas Fi-aux is inclined to seek it (satisfaction/gratification) from exteral sources (can see this in my elder sister as well)...So Fi-dom is much more isolated but Fi-aux is more exposed...

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    I still think there must be a difference between Fi-dom and Fi-aux functioning...

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    I am just being straightforward here...I don't aim to put you off but don't want to hold it back either (cause that would create an internal white noise for me)...

    Couldn't get the bolded part...

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    You have to imagine what it would be like if you were missing the structure of Fe. Imagine a world where there is no discernible patterns of human behaviour or framework with which to make sense of them. Imagine what it would be like if people regularly came up to you in a highly emotionally charged state, talking non-stop in another language you can't even begin to comprehend.
    Well I have already encountered such people IRL...where I couldn't diffuse the charge no matter how hard I've tried...and in the end, I've given up trying...

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    We do not either...Fe-aux doesn't give us an inherenty built framework...As I said earlier, it pings the environment and supplies Ni with data to build on or something like that I guess...It makes us react/adapt (or cater) to the already existing external societal framework...well, initially at least...

    So perhaps lack of Fe cripples your ability to adapt to the needs of others (not necessarily a curse btw)...So you rely on Ne poking (trial and error) to discern how someone else feels when you act like X, Y, Z around them and your Fi builds individual (emotional) templates of people that gives you an idea how to act around certain people respectively...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    So you want to cater to their preferences so as not to offend them (get along with them) and you need to able to read their emotional status/temperament to be able to do that...so your Fi-Ne reads people's behaviour...(I remember mentioning something similar in form of navigating the world and not stepping on people's toes...)

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Well I do not use the information I gather about people to hurt them or bend them to my will, I just use it to adjust my own stance, evade them if I think they pose a danger etc...

    So, the dominant function in each type is about basic survival instinct, I guess...

  3. #1643
    Senior Member Array yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    Thank you Peacebaby...better late than never...

    To tell the truth I do not have much enthusiasm left to respond back to you cause it feels exhausting to me...

    I feel that (also evident in your post) you have this competitive streak and a drive to be on top...which comes off as too strong...which is off-putting to me (or to the INFJ type perhaps)...

    Perhaps I may respond more to your posts in future...I wish you all the best...

  4. #1644
    Senior Member Array yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Sort of. They fit under the same umbrella, anyway.

    The purpose is to function in the world; to understand at any one time what is happening, why it is happening, how to make sense of it, and how to respond to it.
    My enneagram 6 is perhaps related with why I tend to associate the dominant function mainly with identifying friend or foe...



    ^What does the other party achieve by instilling a different emotion in you? How does it affect you? Does it mislead you, how?

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    I need to know the parameters of the interaction and your state of mind to make appropriate adjustments my behaviour and method of communicating with you. Without knowledge of the change in parameters (eg. if you get upset) there can be no adjustment. No adjustment means I will be out of sync with you and your needs. Being out of sync creates and sustains arguments.
    You are adjusting your outer persona to suit to the other's needs while remaining faithful to your rigid inner core...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor
    What's missing here is why I may have done such a thing (if any)? Fear of confrontation? or and ulterior motive to take advantage of someone?
    What do you mean?
    ^Why someone would need a desire to distort his/her emotional output (I mean in the way you mentioned perceiving it)?

    I asked for an example so as to compare it my own attitudes and draw a conclusion for the reason for distortion...

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Did she do anything specifically to offend/harm/hurt/abuse your ESFP friend...? ESFP's want to be popular as well, could it be she was somehow intimidated by her (ExFJ's) skills to win people over? A turf war?

    Regarding what to do...remain polite but distant...don't let her increase the level of intimacy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    So you are giving the baby what he/she desires/craves...what if he/she becomes reliant on you even though you are not the mother, expecting to take care of him/her whenever he/she cries...? What if the baby latches onto your legs and doesn't want to let go?

    How do you do that stepping back thing? Abruptly? Drifting off? Confrontation?

  5. #1645
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    Quote Originally Posted by March View Post
    Hmm, I'm thinking our sense of the importance of things is maybe getting skewed by our focus.

    From what several INFPs said on this thread, I got the impression that:
    • INFPs think any unexpressed emotion needs to be dragged into the light, even if they're just part of the background ebb and flow of life
    • INFPs don't consider timing/manner of doing that TOO important
    • It's a priority with a large P


    This is easy to believe for me because my INFP mother (having parents of a certain type really does a number on one's later skill at seeing others of that type clearly, it seems) DID think all my emotions had to do with her, and if I didn't want to share something than my stubbornness in not telling her DEFINITELY had to do with her, and she shamed and guilt-tripped me publicly and privately about that a lot of times. Even then I could see that she didn't intend that, but she saw it happened and she continued doing it.

    So probably a lot of people have had an INFP take a 'stab in the dark' and hit them right in the heart or ovaries, and for people who are sensitive to that and whose situation was a complete miscalibration on the INFP's part, the fact that it's come up often in this thread makes it sound like 'OMG, they'd like to do this all day long! Hide!'

    Whereas after a couple of rounds of questions, it seems that the truth is more like:
    • INFPs understand that 99% of people's emotions have nothing at all to do with THEM - I can be pissed off at Bob while talking to Mary, and she can either tell the difference by herself or gracefully back out when I say 'it's not you, it's something else'
    • They do want to talk about/shed light on emotions if they're relevant and aimed at them/are sincerely confusing, e.g. I'm angry at you while saying I'm NOT angry while still throwing passive-aggressive digs your way. Which seems totally fair since I don't think anyone has to stand for being actively misled
    • INFPs control their need for information at least 90% of the time
    • INFPs can be quite sensitive about how they approach talking about this, if they want to


    Probably the same thing happened with INFJs and doorslams earlier in the thread.

    • Being on the receiving end of a doorslam can be ultra painful so the memory stays with you and takes on a lot of importance
    • Most people who were being doorslammed were NOT actively malicious or abusive, so it felt completely undeserved
    • All the INFJs on the thread talk about that time when they doorslammed someone, so they must be thinking about it/getting ready for it ALL THE TIME!


    While the truth is more like INFJs hardly ever doorslam and only do so when they've run out all ability in dealing productively with the situation - I've doorslammed 3ish people in my 30 years of life, and in that same span I've lost at least 1000 relationships just because of attrition, losing interest, moving away, not staying in touch, mutual meh, etc. Even with more inveterate doorslammers, I can't imagine them doorslamming even 10% of their relationships. It's just that talking about it makes it sound like it's going on everywhere.


    So. Much. This.

    Edited to add: Oh, and Southern Kross & PeaceBaby, thanks for putting up with all my questions! Very enlightening and reassuring. I was vacillating between 'Hmm, I've heard people say a lot of questions is off-putting and invastive' and 'But I've also heard that one of the things INFJs are annoying for is assuming things and not saying they don't understand!' and I'm glad I went with 'These are all the ways I don't understand; could you help me out?'
    Personally, I'm totally OK with these questions. I'm sure there are other kinds of questions that will make me very uncomfortable, but not this kind.

    Thank you for trying to understand. I appreciate your patience and willingness to listen.


    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    I think the drive as to "what to do" towards satisfying that need/value/insight/feeling (how to wield the function) may be related with enneagram configuration of Fi person, as uumlau non-exclusively emphasized earlier...It can be wielded positively, negatively or in other ways...and not necessarily to invoke positive emotions in others...but to emotionally abuse (lashing out/acting out) someone when/if that someone does not elicit/yield the positive response that Fi person expects/demands of them in unhealthily wielded versions...I however think this applies much more to Fi-aux...I believe my negative impression of Fi stems from my selective memory in recalling unhealthier versions of Fi-aux...

    My elder sister (ENFP I believe) does not wield it unhealthily even she's a Fi-aux though...

    I think Fi-dom relies (is dependent) much more on internally generated satisfaction whereas Fi-aux is inclined to seek it (satisfaction/gratification) from exteral sources (can see this in my elder sister as well)...So Fi-dom is much more isolated but Fi-aux is more exposed...
    Basically. As long as you're saying that would be unhealthy usage. I'm just worried about implying that ExFPs use Fi in hedonistic ways. I'm sure you would be offended if someone said a similar thing about IxFJs and Fe-aux.

    I still think there must be a difference between Fi-dom and Fi-aux functioning...
    I have no doubt there is. I'm inclined to think more in terms of fundamentals, especially when it comes to Fi. Perhaps you are better at discerning this difference.

    I am just being straightforward here...I don't aim to put you off but don't want to hold it back either (cause that would create an internal white noise for me)...

    Couldn't get the bolded part...
    Think of it as if it was a Fe truth. I imagine you feel that you are obligated to the social/cultural norms, to the good of the collective. I would think that a collective truth is something that stands out strongly to you in your mind. If someone were to say, "do this" and it was contrary to what you know in your heart to be true/right/appropriate/whatever, you would want to follow what your heart told you was right. You feel you are accountably to that truth and to turn away from that would be selfish and/or cowardly. I imagine you don't feel that with Fe that you learned to simply obey the social norm; that you learned not to be selfish and think of the group. No, it was just a natural way of processing things for you. So in other words the selflessness is the natural state. You were born with it. Selfishness only comes when you turn away from the 'truth' in your heart; from what is natural.

    Same goes with Fi. The natural state for FPs is a selfless accountability to the individual. Selfishness only comes if I turn away from and deny the 'truth' as it is revealed to me.

    BTW, this is not a remotely offensive question. You shouldn't feel afraid to for your basic needs. That makes things a whole lot easier for me too.

    We do not either...Fe-aux doesn't give us an inherenty built framework...As I said earlier, it pings the environment and supplies Ni with data to build on or something like that I guess...It makes us react/adapt to the already existing external societal framework...well, initially at least...
    I think you misunderstand what I'm getting at. Fe still has a short-hand for dealing with people - a way of quickly assessing human behaviour in broad strokes and making sense of it. Fi does not. It has to go case by case; minute detail by minute detail. We can often do the details fast but we can't easily pick up the broad strokes. The only way a short hand is developed is through Te, which itself takes a long time to develop, and for IxFPs it's our inferior function - it's not natural for us to wield it.

    Have you ever seen this descriptions of the Judging functions?

    Te - Objectively Objective
    Ti - Subjectively Objective
    Fe - Objectively Subjective
    Fi - Subjectively Subjective

    So perhaps lack of Fe cripples your ability to adapt to the needs of others (not necessarily a curse btw)
    I have no problem adapting to the needs of others. I just don't always see what their needs are. I can't pick up collective expectations well. I look at individuals, try to gauge how they feel and what they need and try to adhere to that. I'm just blindly hoping that I somehow blunder upon being agreeable and helpful. I don't actually know how to be agreeable or helpful in objective terms.

    ...So you rely on Ne poking (trial and error) to discern how someone else feels when you act like X, Y, Z around them and your Fi builds individual (emotional) templates of people that gives you an idea how to act around certain people respectively...?
    Sort of, but you're still looking at it though a Fe lens. I'm not really all that interested in affecting people, mostly because I have no idea how. I form template based on people around me, yes, but it is a template of the nature of that person. It doesn't come with a manual of how to employ that knowledge. I just have to hope that my understanding of that person will somehow give me a sense of what external behaviour will appeal to them. I have to take off their head, screw it on my own shoulders, think using their brain, take it off, put my own head back on and then act with what I learned in mind. So knowledge of that person's essence and state of mind is the only thing that guides my actions toward them; there is no rulebook about how to behave. The only other option is to just do what feels right to me - just be as honest and true to myself, hoping that my guilelessness will be recognised and any faux pas forgiven. I don't often do that with people I don't know well, because it tends to end badly.

    So you want to cater to their preferences so as not to offend them (get along with them) and you need to able to read their emotional status/temperament to be able to do that...so your Fi-Ne reads people's behaviour...(I remember mentioning something similar in form of navigating the world and not stepping on people's toes...)
    Yes, but it's even bigger than that. I can't even answer a question if I don't see gather the person's meaning. I need to know what they were thinking/feeling when they said it so I even know what they're asking. Even if the surface elements of the question are obvious, the subtextual elements aren't necessarily.

    Well I do not use the information I gather about people to hurt them or bend them to my will, I just use it to adjust my own stance, evade them if I think they pose a danger etc...
    I didn't mean to imply otherwise. Fe is just that much more action-oriented, whereas Fi is more knowledge driven.

    So, the dominant function in each type is about basic survival instinct, I guess...
    I don't know, I guess.
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    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

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  6. #1646
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Fe-aux is not necessarily pure tradionalist...progressive tradionalist perhaps...And there needs to be a healthy balance between self-centeredness and selflessness...I am trying to force my preset to shift more towards self-centeredness (like @Werebudgie trying to center herself more in her Ni-Se landscape...)

    There's always the possibility that anyone's presets may be way off...so what your heart tells you (or anyone) may be way off as well...therefore, trying to adjust it to healthier levels is neither selfishness nor a betrayal to authentic self IMO...not that I call you selfish...

    I've already clarified that I am more allergic to unhealthy versions of Fi-aux...so point taken...

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Fe-dom does perhaps...I do not know, Fe-aux just allows/drives me to notice and respond when people are displeased/distressed...It doesn't give me accurate reading on how to act/what to do...That's more like Ni's doing...coming up with a plan (by checking in the database for data on similar cases/patterns) as to why they may be displeased/distressed and what to do to alleviate that...it doesn't equip me with charm and grace...

    Fi-dom should also be able to notice when people are displeased/distressed...and respond similarly...I can't feel that Fe-aux gives me that much advantage...perhaps Ni? And even when Ni, I am particularly baffled as to what to do and how to comfort people in some situations, especially when it requires soothing and compassion...that's more like Fi's domain I believe...

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Not familiar with it...but would like to learn more...

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    The thing about "affecting people" bothered me somehow...I just want to remind once more that Fe is not our dominant function...What did you specifically mean about affecting people? Perhaps I can pinpoint why it bothers me that way....

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Yes, but it's even bigger than that. I can't even answer a question if I don't see gather the person's meaning. I need to know what they were thinking/feeling when they said it so I even know what they're asking. Even if the surface elements of the question are obvious, the subtextual elements aren't necessarily.
    Perhaps a standard code of conduct that Ne employs in such situations by default would come handy...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    I didn't mean to imply otherwise. Fe is just that much more action-oriented, whereas Fi is more knowledge driven.
    I agree with you...I think Fe-(aux?) makes me much more practically oriented when it comes to trying to help people whereas Fi's domain I believe is more about showing compassion and understanding...
    Last edited by yeghor; 02-08-2014 at 12:16 AM.

  7. #1647
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    At a certain point, the act of "emulating" functions you are not accustomed to can seem like an attempt to infringe on the boundaries of those who prefer those functions; I personally wouldn't feel all that comfortable thinking that some stranger on the internet is attempting to crawl around in my headspace. It would feel potentially meddlesome, even if it was done with the purest of intentions.

  8. #1648
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ginkgo View Post
    At a certain point, the act of "emulating" functions you are not accustomed to can seem like an attempt to infringe on the boundaries of those who prefer those functions; I personally wouldn't feel all that comfortable thinking that some stranger on the internet is attempting to crawl around in my headspace. It would feel potentially meddlesome, even if it was done with the purest of intentions.
    In my own experience, I don't "emulate" so much as try to say things in a format that the other type of person finds more "intellectually digestible."

    The problem that I see in the INFP/INFJ case is that the feeling function translation as often as not incorporates emotional reactions into the mix. So unlike my INTJ/INTP case, where if I fail, the INTP says, "You aren't making any sense," in the INFP/INFJ case, if the one party fails, the other party says, "How dare you say that!"
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

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    Did my tone come across as angry or something? I am quite calm at the moment...I am not offended or irritated...

    ???

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    Quote Originally Posted by March View Post
    This is easy to believe for me because my INFP mother (having parents of a certain type really does a number on one's later skill at seeing others of that type clearly, it seems) DID think all my emotions had to do with her, and if I didn't want to share something than my stubbornness in not telling her DEFINITELY had to do with her, and she shamed and guilt-tripped me publicly and privately about that a lot of times. Even then I could see that she didn't intend that, but she saw it happened and she continued doing it.
    Yes, I could see that happening. If you imagine yourself as broadcasting emotional information 24/7 it's probably fair to say she didn't grill you 24/7 on what she was picking up. And when she probed for more information, it may have then been colored with some inner annoyance from you at being grilled for it so then it does start to be about her collaterally. That's hard to ignore. She then might have identified a pattern of her own and felt that forcing the issue would "break the wall." Just a thought.

    And I read with interest how you feel about a misread of the inner state. You mentioned that sometimes you would feel frustrated when you were really sick and your Mom was wrong and pressed on that. I agree with SK that's it's not a label that floats into our head with a specific reason why you feel as you do. We just feel that you don't feel "right" inside and extrapolate from that feeling to try to determine possible cause. I've noticed that the correct labeling is very important to INFJs and to me too actually, so a better perspective is just to assume nothing and start from ground zero. What question do you think would help you feel open to saying how you feel in the moment, bearing in mind that you're not necessarily paying attention to what you might be broadcasting? You mentioned before that taking care of the external sometimes takes care of the internal by proxy, so if you're kind of intercepted somewhere in the middle of that, what would suit you best?

    From my vantage point, the right way to open this is to ask something along the lines of, "What are you thinking/feeling right now?" as opposed to declaratively stating "You are feeling X! Admit it!" (Usually I say 'thinking' because it's less loaded and it gets us where we need to go anyway.)

    Sometimes a similar dynamic has occurred with my 22yo INTJ daughter. Here's an example: on Christmas morning, her mood was quite sour and negative. Every gift she opened seemed to be the 'wrong' thing. The wrong pants, a stupid hat, "Why did you get me this?" etc. You could see it on her face and feel it emanating from her, quite palpably. So much so my ESTJ husband was growing irate from it, my ESFP son was losing ebullience and compassion and starting to emanate, "What's her problem", and her mood was starting to dampen a day that is WAY more about expressing gratitude overall. And yes, you could say her attitude was very ungrateful, and it was almost to the point where my ability to stay buoyant was affected too. But I HAD to control the impulse all along to just can-opener her heart on the spot. It wasn't about the gifts and I could sense more inside that was going on. But if I had grilled her then and there it WOULD have deeply humiliated her that her emotions were so obvious and additionally misconstrued as ungratefulness.

    We get through the gifts and still it's not the right time to tackle the question. The moment was a couple of hours later, as she was looking through her gifts again. So I asked, "What's wrong, sweetheart?" Then the floodgates open, the true underlying emotion gets expressed. It's not that there was an issue with the gifts per se, I knew I had chosen things well-calibrated to her likes (except for one, and exchanging it is no big deal in our house). But if I had pressed on it in the wrong moment ... but the urge is there.

    I did put the picture of her on FB wearing the hat though, along with all the other Xmas pics. I think it was good for her to see what her face looked like in that moment. So, yeah, I was poking at that a wee bit. She said, "THANKS Mom" and was a bit grumbly but laughed too. She DID look so sour!

    Whereas after a couple of rounds of questions, it seems that the truth is more like:
    • INFPs understand that 99% of people's emotions have nothing at all to do with THEM - I can be pissed off at Bob while talking to Mary, and she can either tell the difference by herself or gracefully back out when I say 'it's not you, it's something else'
    • They do want to talk about/shed light on emotions if they're relevant and aimed at them/are sincerely confusing, e.g. I'm angry at you while saying I'm NOT angry while still throwing passive-aggressive digs your way. Which seems totally fair since I don't think anyone has to stand for being actively misled
    • INFPs control their need for information at least 90% of the time
    • INFPs can be quite sensitive about how they approach talking about this, if they want to
    Yes, that expresses my perspective on that well. Thank you for that!

    eta: I should clarify that my ability to see what emotions have to do with me and what belong to other people has gotten better as I get older. When I was younger and sensed anger (especially) from another person, it was very hard for me to believe that they were not angry with me. As enneagram 9, I think that makes sense that anger is the hardest thing for me to process.

    More later - I wanted to share a thought on your ISTJ spouse story you might find interesting. My parents are ISFJ and ISTJ so the dynamic is familiar.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

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