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Thread: When an INFJ doorslams you / cuts you out of their life / breaks off contact

  1. #1491
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by digesthisickness View Post
    No thread ever made me more happy to be a T. You people are terrifying.
    Yeah, when personal values are your first priority, and you're at odds with someone, handling the situation can become twisted in its deliberation.

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    Iron Maiden Array fidelia's Avatar
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    In response to your post Eilonwy -

    You're right, my post talked about INFJ needs. To my way of thinking, it is easiest for both parties to decide whether they want to engage further if both lay out what they need for the conversation to be productive. I'm not asking someone to come all the way to my side of the park. In fact, I would prefer that they also lay out what they need and we both determine if/how we want to proceed from there.

    I think one commonality in a lot of these INFJ posts is that we are doing what we ourselves would like done if we were on the receiving end - stating our intentions/feelings and offering what we see as a workable alternative to the present situation. I don't see that as an ultimatum, but rather as being proactive. It's not fair just to make hazy, general complaints and not give the other person any idea of what I think would be better. However, that doesn't mean that the person has to accept that solution. They are free to counter with a different perspective or proposed course of action. If they are similar enough that both parties want to make the adjustment, great. If not, one or both can opt not to follow that course of action.

    While Werebudgie stated it in perhaps stronger terms than I might have, I do agree that there are times when it's okay to recognize that you might not hitch with everyone and that doesn't make them or you a bad person. Generally, people come to these discussions because the topic at hand is relevant to them and they either want to air their feelings on it, or they have questions they need information to be able to answer. Hopefully they are able to remain civil while doing so, and sometimes there is something even to be gained from seeing where it is that misunderstandings arise. Sometimes though, I think it's okay to choose not to engage when you know the exchange won't be helpful or productive to either party (not saying I'm deciding for the other person, but rather that past outcome is a powerful indicator of future outcome and there's been lots of past outcome to go on).

    I have indeed had private conversations with Peacebaby, and as I've stated before, respect her greatly in other areas where I believe she shows a lot of expertise and knowledgeability. I think she is an outstandingly helpful and kind person, and I also see that she has expended a lot of effort in communicating with INFJs. On the other hand, I also have seen over the course of half a decade that engaging in discussions about this particular topic with her end up making her feel rotten and making me feel frustrated (at least on my part, I don't find that to be true regarding other topics when I am talking to her). That shouldn't negate her or my ability to visit and participate in threads that we are both interested in.

    I appreciate that you are in a different place in your life than I am right now, Eilonwy, so things may look differently to you from your vantage point. I respect that, and certainly don't want to add more to the emotional load that you already are carrying.

    However, this is one of the few bits of leisure time I afford myself in the day. During the time I spend here, while I am looking to grow personally, I am here primarily to maybe pick up a bit of information, interact socially, compare my experiences with others, and become more informed about some things. If the negatives of an interaction outweigh the positives with no foreseeable change in sight, the person is not within the circle of people I work with, live with or are responsible for, and I'm not being mean-spiritedly reactive or trying to hurt someone, I just can't see what is wrong about letting things drift for a bit. That doesn't mean the door is banged shut in the future or that I thing it is someone's shortcomings that are making me less receptive at this time. We just are not starting from common enough ground to interact well.

  3. #1493
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ginkgo View Post
    Yeah, when personal values are your first priority, and you're at odds with someone, handling the situation can become twisted in its deliberation.
    Yeah, I've been watching and reading this thread thinking it would help me communicate optimally with my INFP, but all I accomplish is getting confused and eventually a scary feeling happens wherein I start to think I'm doomed. Time to exit and just keep doing what I'm doing and 'feel' my own way, I suppose.

    I do wish things could get settled here though. I may not get why, but I DO recognize when something is important to someone else, and it clearly is. It's one of those situations where I can't help but wonder if all of this would get settled faster and more thoroughly if everyone were in person and in a room or two together. Like the 'human' aspect is missing here; something so important, maybe, considering the source? I dunno. *shrug* Just seems that so much caring and need to understand should get along better.
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  4. #1494
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    You have no idea how much farther I come to meet you than you come to meet me. If you knew, it would make you cry too.
    Don't forget the possibility that Ne simply needs more external confirmation than Ni does.

  5. #1495
    Vulnerability Array Eilonwy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    In response to your post Eilonwy -

    You're right, my post talked about INFJ needs. To my way of thinking, it is easiest for both parties to decide whether they want to engage further if both lay out what they need for the conversation to be productive. I'm not asking someone to come all the way to my side of the park. In fact, I would prefer that they also lay out what they need and we both determine if/how we want to proceed from there.

    I think one commonality in a lot of these INFJ posts is that we are doing what we ourselves would like done if we were on the receiving end - stating our intentions/feelings and offering what we see as a workable alternative to the present situation. I don't see that as an ultimatum, but rather as being proactive. It's not fair just to make hazy, general complaints and not give the other person any idea of what I think would be better. However, that doesn't mean that the person has to accept that solution. They are free to counter with a different perspective or proposed course of action. If they are similar enough that both parties want to make the adjustment, great. If not, one or both can opt not to follow that course of action.

    While Werebudgie stated it in perhaps stronger terms than I might have, I do agree that there are times when it's okay to recognize that you might not hitch with everyone and that doesn't make them or you a bad person. Generally, people come to these discussions because the topic at hand is relevant to them and they either want to air their feelings on it, or they have questions they need information to be able to answer. Hopefully they are able to remain civil while doing so, and sometimes there is something even to be gained from seeing where it is that misunderstandings arise. Sometimes though, I think it's okay to choose not to engage when you know the exchange won't be helpful or productive to either party (not saying I'm deciding for the other person, but rather that past outcome is a powerful indicator of future outcome and there's been lots of past outcome to go on).

    I have indeed had private conversations with Peacebaby, and as I've stated before, respect her greatly in other areas where I believe she shows a lot of expertise and knowledgeability. I think she is an outstandingly helpful and kind person, and I also see that she has expended a lot of effort in communicating with INFJs. On the other hand, I also have seen over the course of half a decade that engaging in discussions about this particular topic with her end up making her feel rotten and making me feel frustrated (at least on my part, I don't find that to be true regarding other topics when I am talking to her). That shouldn't negate her or my ability to visit and participate in threads that we are both interested in.

    I appreciate that you are in a different place in your life than I am right now, Eilonwy, so things may look differently to you from your vantage point. I respect that, and certainly don't want to add more to the emotional load that you already are carrying.

    However, this is one of the few bits of leisure time I afford myself in the day. During the time I spend here, while I am looking to grow personally, I am here primarily to maybe pick up a bit of information, interact socially, compare my experiences with others, and become more informed about some things. If the negatives of an interaction outweigh the positives with no foreseeable change in sight, the person is not within the circle of people I work with, live with or are responsible for, and I'm not being mean-spiritedly reactive or trying to hurt someone, I just can't see what is wrong about letting things drift for a bit. That doesn't mean the door is banged shut in the future or that I thing it is someone's shortcomings that are making me less receptive at this time. We just are not starting from common enough ground to interact well.
    So, if this particular conversation isn't to your liking, you have the choice to not participate. If you want to contribute, but don't want to engage @PeaceBaby, then contribute and don't engage PeaceBaby. If you don't want her to engage you, then tell her that directly (which can be done politely). Or if this particular thread isn't meeting your needs, you can always start one that does. You have options. You make your own choices. You can own those choices. What other people do may influence those choices, but the choices are still yours.

    However, this is a public thread, and I think it's unfair to tell PeaceBaby that she can't or shouldn't participate, for whatever reason. Or that she can only participate if her posts meet certain criteria put forth by other posters. Just because some people might not find her posts informative or to their liking, doesn't mean that everyone feels the same way. She's also allowed to make her own choices and own them.

    As to the bolded, you might prefer that, but what if the other parties are saying that they don't? What then? Stalemate?


    ETA: The point I'm trying to make is not that the INFJs shouldn't lay out their needs or preferences, but that they should recognize that by doing that and not being willing to negotiate those needs, they are effectively trying to control the conversation. They can't expect others to comply, and then say it's the other's fault for not complying. They can ask for others to comply and then accept whatever answer they get, or negotiate further. If you're happy waiting to converse with only those people who meet your needs and preferences, that's fine. That doesn't mean that everyone else should stop conversing. And if you find you don't hitch with someone, then YOU don't hitch with them, as opposed to telling them that THEY don't hitch with you. Do you see that the first one is taking ownership and the second one is laying blame?


    ETA2: I'm not trying to get you to CHANGE what you're doing; I'm trying to get you to SEE how you're coming across. That's the blind spot. What you decide to do from there is your choice.
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  6. #1496
    Iron Maiden Array fidelia's Avatar
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    I don't think people are saying that Peacebaby cannot participate. Peacebaby is the one that is stating that she is unhappy with the interactions or hurt by them. I have tried talking privately, confronting directly, and not engaging over a period of several years. None of those are acceptable solutions for her. Her way isn't acceptable for me. Therefore, I think we aren't on similar enough ground to proceed. However, that isn't necessarily the case for her with other people, and so of course she is more than welcome to interact with anyone she wishes to.

    It's just that when she is saying that she dislikes the outcome of an exchange and other people offer solutions for what might work better to get a different outcome, she can either choose to engage in that way, or be alright with however the exchange proceeds doing it the way she has been. It might be true that she is making too many adjustments. In that case, it seems only sensible that at that point she may decide that she doesn't want to interact with them because it is not fair. However, that seems not to be the case. She continues interacting, but keeps saying that it is unfair that she is having to adjust so much.

    If it were only a person or two where this was occurring, I would assume it was just an individual issue. However, this seems to be occurring with old members as well as new ones. It may be a blind spot on the INFJ's part, but seeing as it appears to be a somewhat universal blind spot, it puzzles me as to why she would want to interact with people who are so unwilling or unable to compromise or interact in a fair sort of way.

    Anyway, I don't care to dictate who may or may not participate in any thread. I don't find myself feeling either hurt or angry over any of these posts. It's only when I am being addressed, or there is a request for me to do things differently that I feel I need to be upfront about where I stand - what things I can flex on and which things I can't, so other people know where they are at.

    To me, interaction of any kind is a negotiation and I do habitually leave threads where I know my views/interaction style varies enough from other posters that it is not compatible. Some would view that as cowardly, others as considerate, others as misguided, and still others as one of many other acceptable options. I do not like conflict if it seemingly is not producing anything. Others are okay with it, and I see many examples of people who have waded in and either used a conflicting style or expressed very conflicting views to other posters in the thread. Sometimes it has been a great success and at other times it's been a disaster. Depending on the person themselves, they would respond to the reaction differently.

    It just seems to me that if these posts are incurring real hurt and pain, from my vantage point, I think I wouldn't continue. By stating that, I guess I'm trying to search for a reason I may not have considered for why Peacebaby sees it as worth putting herself through. It could be that I've overlooked something that I shouldn't.

  7. #1497
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    Quote Originally Posted by digesthisickness View Post
    Yeah, I've been watching and reading this thread thinking it would help me communicate optimally with my INFP, but all I accomplish is getting confused and eventually a scary feeling happens wherein I start to think I'm doomed. Time to exit and just keep doing what I'm doing and 'feel' my own way, I suppose.

    I do wish things could get settled here though. I may not get why, but I DO recognize when something is important to someone else, and it clearly is. It's one of those situations where I can't help but wonder if all of this would get settled faster and more thoroughly if everyone were in person and in a room or two together. Like the 'human' aspect is missing here; something so important, maybe, considering the source? I dunno. *shrug* Just seems that so much caring and need to understand should get along better.
    In general, I think you would probably wind up regretting a decision that was made purely on the basis of information you've gotten from this thread, unless it only concerned the members who've posted.

    The discrepancies here would probably resolve or change if we all met and discussed matters, but even in that environment, we would eventually run into issues with stubbornness. Egos are invested in typology unless you've abstracted it to death, but at that point, people lose interest because it no longer really relate to "self-discovery", so much as it would relate to a seemingly inconsequential playground of theory.

    -------------

    Concerning Ne vs Ni and the potential lack of understanding between INFPs and INFJs - an example to illustrate my point about how Ne requires more externally based information than Ni: I know an Ni dom who regularly plays guessing games with me, and during our playful conversations in which we inquire each other about our respective personal lives, a sharp difference between our psychological makeup becomes apparent.

    I ask him questions, relay information, and probe indirectly by taking guesses. I try to use deduction to whittle away possibilities, but then more possibilities could be inferred from the remaining possibilities. While I often attempt to deduce, my deductions frequently seem to lead further and further away from the truth - especially if he slowly piecemeals information without being straightforward. You could say, from a cynical but not inaccurate POV, that I dig my own grave - in part because I want information from an objectively verifiable source, but also in part because I refuse to just settle on a conclusion. More often than not, I actually stumble on the truth, but keep walking because I'm seeking a personal connection more than information. I think this is directly related to Ne, seeing as Ne probes for information by informing in turn, and always requires a bit of empirical evidence before judgments find closure.

    On the other hand, my friend contemplates without attempting to catalyze responses from me. He mulls what he has around and infers what he wants. Often, his conclusions, while accurate, are vague and would better be taken with a grain of salt; however, seeing as I, as an Ne user, expect there to be some sort of verifiable remnant of information, I can fall victim to the Forer effect, taking things more personally than need be. If he and I were not on good terms, I could easily misinterpret his statements as indirect insults, and assume that he gaslights me during these games. But we appreciate our differences and recognize, through mutual respect, that we're equally responsible for what comes of our interactions.

  8. #1498
    Senior Member Array Winds of Thor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ginkgo View Post
    Yeah, when personal values are your first priority, and you're at odds with someone, handling the situation can become twisted in its deliberation.
    Yeah, seems like delusion stemming from pride or something.

    There are so many details and descriptions being attempted and you people need to know that spelling everything out has its limits.
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  9. #1499
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    I'd like to add that, as someone who's been doorslammed by an INFJ, those of you who interacted with INFJs who engaged in open conflict with you prior to a doorslamming - you may want to be grateful that the INFJ actually gave you direct reason to believe they wanted to shut you out. I've been inexplicably ignored and hung out to dry in the past, and when that happens, the emotional pain incurred is on par with physical pain.

  10. #1500
    Vulnerability Array Eilonwy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    If it were only a person or two where this was occurring, I would assume it was just an individual issue. However, this seems to be occurring with old members as well as new ones.
    And you've polled the whole forum? Or are you extrapolating from a few vocal people, as well as from your own feelings in the matter?


    I have tried talking privately, confronting directly, and not engaging over a period of several years.
    And that was about you, not other posters for whom you might have been speaking? You directly told her to please not engage with you? And after telling her that, you've done nothing to inadvertently encourage her to respond or reply, like quote, mention, or talk about her directly or indirectly?
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