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Thread: When an INFJ doorslams you / cuts you out of their life / breaks off contact

  1. #1401
    I want my account deleted Array
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    If Fi doms/auxes are in relationship with an INFJ, as @Werebudgie said, they should not put forward "raw banter" i.e. assumptions as facts in a forceful tone (i.e. regulate emotional surges)...check facts with INFJ...and try to give more credit (and time) to statements INFJ makes (because they do not come easy to us)...and try to really integrate what the INFJs say in to your framework (i.e. let it seep into your ego)...I guess that requires enormous trust for INFPs and am not sure if that's possible...
    Just to be clear, I don't think I said INFPs should do anything. I was being descriptive, not prescriptive. I actually don't know what any of us should do to bridge these possible challenges.

    And I don't see how a Fi-dom can reasonably be asked to "really integrate what INFJs say into their framework." As I understand it (I could be wrong), the Fi framework is an individual values matrix that can be affected/changed via Si experiences, Ne possibilities and whatever Te does in that mix. I don't know that INFPs really have a choice about what seeps past the existing filters into the ego, or if they do, I don't know that integrating what an INFJ would say is a reasonable thing to ask. I know things can change with Fi's structure, but I don't know that it's reasonable to ask an INFP to allow such an intrusion from an alien (INFJ) reality into that individual values/personal experience matrix. But then again, I don't know for sure.

    Or perhaps Fi doms/auxes and Fe doms/auxes are not really meant for each other...I do not know...
    I feel like being a Ni-dom is probably much more significant to my actual reality than being a Fe-aux, when it comes to my deepest self and thus deepest personal connections. There may be a key in there somewhere, for me at least. But I don't have any specifics yet.

  2. #1402
    wants Mifune clone minion Array Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    ['raw batter' explanation moved here]

    Quote Originally Posted by Werebudgie View Post
    My first response is to try to adapt/comply with what the others do or want. If that isn't possible or effective, I withdraw. And if THAT isn't possible/effective, I'll fight back. By the time I get to that third one, fighting back, whoa, watch out. I try to (and generally manage to) avoid that last (fighting back) because when I unleash that, I can rip someone's soul to shreds using scary-accurate information and insight.
    Yes, I can relate to this- there’s even been a conversation or two about it in my blog (which I’d find and link, but no one with less than 500 posts can see it anyway). I’ve half-jokingly explained it once (why INFJs withdraw) to someone as David Banner Syndrome (the Hulk). It’s like we want to stay in David Banner mode. If the emotional charge builds up too much, we withdraw in order to stay in David Banner mode. And yeah, where withdrawing isn’t available- it’s the worst feeling (eta: I can get emo-hooked into behaving badly ).


    Quote Originally Posted by Werebudgie View Post

    I really don't think that "self-serving shape-shify logic" is Ne, at least not in the INFP configuration. I really think that's Fi-Te (with Te-inf serving Fi). Ne has a much lighter and more playful feel, and is not hardcore judgmental like that Fi-Te combination. And yes, "self-serving shape-shify logic" is a good description of that Fi-Te thing, in my experience. Basically, Te finds plausible arguments that justify what Fi has already concluded. Attempts to track that logic as if it really is objective (as Te-inf fancies itself to be in this context) yields exposure of that self-serving shape-shifty dynamic. Though it's like tying to pin down smoke to address it directly.

    Seems to me that healthy infusion of Ne could be really useful to break the pattern when the INFP Fi-Te thing gets going.
    First of all- yeah, it’s not usually very noticeable in INPs. Secondly- I always feel silly getting into “well I think it’s this function” discussions because it’s almost like discussing which super hero could beat another superhero (functions being the abstract concepts that they are). But the reason I think it’s Ne is because I see it most in Ne doms. It’s not judgment per se, more like rapid-fire ‘informing’ (the interaction style).

    Also I want to point out that “self serving” is a qualifier I added in the context of people feeling defensive or generally stressed to the point of not being able to empathize- needing to shoot down/deflect any criticism and/or direct the perception of others.
    Last edited by Z Buck McFate; 01-29-2014 at 09:20 PM.
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    Senior Member Array yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    If we ever get sick of these Ni/Fi discussions and want to mix it up a bit, we could put yeghor and OrangeAppled in Thunderdome. You know, to collect data.
    @Z Buck McFate; That was a bit underhanded don't you think? Making a laughingstock of people?

    @Werebudgie; Were you previously a forum user under a different user name...you have some history here?

  4. #1404
    wants Mifune clone minion Array Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    :/ I actually googled "underhanded" just to make sure I knew what it meant. (I don't think it's underhanded?)

    My point is that now we have a Ni dom with a (seemingly heavy) grudge against Fi/INFPs. (And she is a Fi dom with a very established grudge against INFJs. eta: I keep reading your posts thinking you're like, the flip side of the same coin.)

    [ @yeghor, I just removed it, since it bothers you.]
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

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    Senior Member Array yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    @yeghor, I just removed it, since it bothers you.]
    Thank you...

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    reborn Array PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    Thank you...
    Actually, and my intention here is not to choose sides since I value being as even and neutral as possible, I see you as being very reasonable yeghor. Yes, your stances are more rigid, but you are willing to define the edges for me, speak true to your voice and you are trying to refine your viewpoint through data collection. And I have seen visible evidence of you updating it and trying to extrapolate further. So, I thank you for that, very sincerely.

    And really, OA would throw her hands up in the air to read she has some "grudge" against INFJs. It's not a grudge. INFJs just drive her crazy sometimes. And I understand why. Plus I am wired to read the undertones in her feeling space on this. I do not see you as having any grudge on INFPs either, just a very primitive and limited understanding of our inner realm.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
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  7. #1407
    reborn Array PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Werebudgie View Post
    the Fi framework is an individual values matrix ...
    Can you define values as you understand it? Thanks.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
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    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  8. #1408
    Senior Member Array yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    Actually, and my intention here is not to choose sides since I value being as even and neutral as possible, I see you as being very reasonable yeghor. Yes, your stances are more rigid, but you are willing to define the edges for me, speak true to your voice and you are trying to refine your viewpoint through data collection. And I have seen visible evidence of you updating it and trying to extrapolate further. So, I thank you for that, very sincerely.

    And really, OA would throw her hands up in the air to read she has some "grudge" against INFJs. It's not a grudge. INFJs just drive her crazy sometimes. And I understand why. Plus I am wired to read the undertones in her feeling space on this. I do not see you as having any grudge on INFPs either, just a very primitive and limited understanding of our inner realm.
    Thank you PeaceBaby...Glad I could be of help somehow

  9. #1409
    Vulnerability Array Eilonwy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    Your mentioning me somehow made me feel like:

    Did my mention actually come across as blaming you, or are you teasing? The makes me think you're teasing, but I'm not sure.

    I only mentioned you as a way to clarify why that particular definition of doorslam made sense for this discussion. I saw it as a statement of fact. Did you not bring it back to life by mentioning Mane specifically? Would some other wording have worked better for you?

    I think the distinction between what doorslam meant to those who have been vehemently condemning it and what it meant to those who have been using it as a last resort to bail out of oppressive relationship has recently been highlighted after the thread restarted (starting from page 105 or 106 I believe)...

    This I believe stemmed from those who were condemning it not articulating clearly what their experience of doorslam had exactly been like in the thread and deflecting questions, by INFJs requesting further clarification from them, due to misconstruing them as an attempt to invalidate their arguments...

    So I do not think I brought a different discussion back to life...I do not understand what the problem is exactly here (regarding what should be discussed and what should not) either...and the need to act defensive...
    I'm not sure where all of this came from. Again, I was simply clarifying for Z Buck, nothing more. I didn't say you brought a different discussion back to life, just the discussion that included Mane, as a way to clarify. So, I also don't understand what the problem is here. And why you think I was acting defensively.

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  10. #1410
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    @Werebudgie; Were you previously a forum user under a different user name...you have some history here?
    No, I haven't been a forum user on this site ever before.

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