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Thread: When an INFJ doorslams you / cuts you out of their life / breaks off contact

  1. #1301
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    I have wondered if this is a difference between Fi and Fe. Both taken to their extreme can be phenomenally harmful or ethical, but I see both as equally consistent systems.
    i identify with result-focus ethical spin, but i'd hesitant to extend this to typology -
    i've noticed there is a common line of reasoning behind a lot of the function-analysis failures:
    "if my compassion and genuine emotional self is my Fi, Fe is faking it"
    "if my empathy and caring for others is my Fe, Fi is egoistical"
    "if my understanding of reality is my Te, Ti is just mental masturbation"
    "if my ability to think deeply is my Ti, Te isn't really thinking"

    like wise, i've seen Fi users claiming that Fi values are utilitarian and Fe users are the ones adding "stubborn social norm morality which has nothing to do with the well being of anyone". it seems to follow the same game rules from either side of each function coin - people identify their identity and experience with the metaphors describing a function and then define the opposite function as the opposite (or lack) of those aspects that they identified in themselves.

    then you have people who do find a way to relate or play themselves into the described opposite, but then they see it from a perspective of rationalizing that very opposite, so the opposite function to that one is now the opposite of whatever they connected their rational too, rinse and repeat... the ecology of function definitions just keeps branching off.

    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    What do you mean by "fake-choice" @Mane?

    i've had an INFJ here present me with the "i think this would counter your hopes in X... should i say it?" question. now, i respect that for her this is a legitimate choice, and i've seen it in others since, and it's why i figured i should present it to cafe.

    in the same time when i am presented with that, to me it seems like a fake choice - sort of like how a lot of religions do the "you have a choice, ... to do what i tell you or GO TO HELL".... it's presenting a choice between going through door A or going into a wall with a door B painted over it - unless you are the roadrunner that isn't a real choice. likewise, i already know that the box has information that can mean (-X) because i just got told that, it's right there in the warning label. it's going to be the case whether i look at it or not - i don't experience my choice to look at an information as a form of control over it's validity, only opening the box and looking at it and examining it has a chance to tell me that. i can choose to not look at it, but not looking at it isn't a meaningful choice in regards to its content.

    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    I hope you can understand at some point that we aren't all like your ex.
    "we" INFJs? i know you aren't. i've sort of did the title-change from "INFJ" to solipsists back in the last round to convey that: the only extent to which the concept of INFJ is even on my radar here is because people on both sides have applied function analysis, and if the reason an INFJ would exhibit that sort of mentality are different from those of someone else it might be useful for me. otherwise, i focus on the doorslammer part more then of INFJ part, and specifically on the doorslamming of perspectives (though i recognize in doing so i leave quite the cop-out room for anyone to reframe their reasons).

  2. #1302
    Vulnerability Array Eilonwy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    i identify with result-focus ethical spin, but i'd hesitant to extend this to typology -
    i've noticed there is a common line of reasoning behind a lot of the function-analysis failures:
    "if my compassion and genuine emotional self is my Fi, Fe is faking it"
    "if my empathy and caring for others is my Fe, Fi is egoistical"
    "if my understanding of reality is my Te, Ti is just mental masturbation"
    "if my ability to think deeply is my Ti, Te isn't really thinking"

    like wise, i've seen Fi users claiming that Fi values are utilitarian and Fe users are the ones adding "stubborn social norm morality which has nothing to do with the well being of anyone". it seems to follow the same game rules from either side of each function coin - people identify their identity and experience with the metaphors describing a function and then define the opposite function as the opposite (or lack) of those aspects that they identified in themselves.

    then you have people who do find a way to relate or play themselves into the described opposite, but then they see it from a perspective of rationalizing that very opposite, so the opposite function to that one is now the opposite of whatever they connected their rational too, rinse and repeat... the ecology of function definitions just keeps branching off.
    This is an excellent point. I would guess that this type of thinking is part of the way the limited human mind is hard-wired to work. How the mind differentiates or determines a sense of self--me vs not me, going up in levels to us vs them. It permeates our thinking and seems "right" to us. Just like we're wired to see cause and effect, or patterns that matter to our survival, whether those things really exist or not. I'm not sure how to break away from that, or if we can break away from it. Limited mind is limited.
    Johari / Nohari

    “That we are capable only of being what we are remains our unforgivable sin.” ― Gene Wolfe

    reminder to self: "That YOU that you are so proud of is a story woven together by your interpreter module to account for as much of your behavior as it can incorporate, and it denies or rationalizes the rest." "Who's in Charge? Free Will and the Science of the Brain" by Michael S. Gazzaniga

  3. #1303
    Intentionally Clementine Array Starry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    I can see that FLD's comments triggered anger in you...perhaps it would be better if you told us about how your experience of doorslam differed from what FLD put forward...

    About the long time into the relationship thing:

    Whenever I start doing something new, it takes a while (longer than I would like) for me to get accustomed to the new dynamics...But when I finally get accustomed to it, it no longer bothers/stresses me...In fact, after that point it becomes harder for me to leave the dynamic I had gotten accustomed to...So the point that FLD made and resonated in me is that it is more probable for me to bail out (read freak out) from a new relationship in the earlier stages than the later stages (when I get accustomated to it and relaxed)...
    I can't really say FLD's comments caused me to experience anger... Irritation maybe? Annoyance? First I was like ->
    Then -> Then I was like -> *heavy sigh*

    Then as I read on I was like "OMG...am I ever going to get back to my baseline ->

    ^^Whatever feelings are summed up by that...that was my experience.


    Likewise, my feelings didn't have all that much to do with 'doorslamming' so sharing my experience in that regard seems a bit pointless.


    My father whom I adore is a scientist. My ex was a scientist. I am a scientist. And I take issue with individuals that speak in absolutes. That make claims without backing them up with empirical evidence. I'm actually surprised you didn't catch this when I read about your experience/history. Reread FLD's statements and see if you notice what I speak of here. It doesn't matter whether the statements are true for you or not...it has to do with how they are presented.
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  4. #1304
    Senior Member Array cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    "we" INFJs? i know you aren't. i've sort of did the title-change from "INFJ" to solipsists back in the last round to convey that: the only extent to which the concept of INFJ is even on my radar here is because people on both sides have applied function analysis, and if the reason an INFJ would exhibit that sort of mentality are different from those of someone else it might be useful for me. otherwise, i focus on the doorslammer part more then of INFJ part, and specifically on the doorslamming of perspectives (though i recognize in doing so i leave quite the cop-out room for anyone to reframe their reasons).
    More like not everyone who has doorslammed someone is delusional and incapable of commitment in any context.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  5. #1305
    Senior Member Array yeghor's Avatar
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    Does this make sense?

    INTMCHART.jpg

  6. #1306
    Intentionally Clementine Array Starry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    Does this make sense?

    INTMCHART.jpg


    I wish I could say it did but it doesn't yeghor (sorry). I mean, I get the gist of what it is attempting to present...I think. The graph is amatuer so I personally wouldn't trust it (please tell me this isn't from the Dolphin lady haha!). I guess I'm also weird because I always need to know how the study was conducted/data was collected. And just so you know...I often reject the validity of studies appearing in professional journals so... <-I'm pretty hardcore haha.

    I'm off to go and make football snacks of all things... (this will be the first game I've watched in several years fyi haha) Talk to you soon.
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  7. #1307
    Senior Member Array yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    I couldn't understand the bolded part?...

    Perhaps he had a relationship with an INFJ so that he was speaking from experience but did not want to share his story? I don't know...

    His comment that anyone leaving a relationship does so because the other party treats them like crap was far fetched...People leave relationships when the relationship cease to be comfortable for any of the parties...As I presented in my earlier post, I do not like breaking the routine so it is harder for me to leave any commitment at later stages than earlier stages therefore, it takes a great deal of "discomfort" to have happened at least for me to do that...That's what FLD was trying to emphasize about INFJs, which I guess was specifically aimed at Mane...

    In anycase, you can still falsify or build on his comment through counter arguments/experiences (on INFJs or doorslam)...

  8. #1308
    Senior Member Array yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    I drew that on windows paint

  9. #1309
    Vulnerability Array Eilonwy's Avatar
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    @yeghor, here's maybe a better example of the controlling thing, though I didn't change my behavior, but I did admit to it, which seemed to be enough.

    A few years back, I asked one of my sisters if she would consider moving in with our mom and me, in order to help me take care of our mom. She agreed and moved in with us. During a discussion, she stated that I only wanted to take care of mom in my own way. My first thought was to deny that*, but I realized that it was true and said so. I also told my sister that she was welcome to take care of mom any way she wanted to when she was the one taking care of mom. From past experiences, if I had denied that I wanted to do things my own way when taking care of mom, there probably would have been an argument. Since I admitted that, yep, I wanted to control the way mom was taken care of when I was doing it, there was no argument and the matter was dropped.


    ETA: *Because, you know, I'm too nice a person to be that selfish and controlling.
    Johari / Nohari

    “That we are capable only of being what we are remains our unforgivable sin.” ― Gene Wolfe

    reminder to self: "That YOU that you are so proud of is a story woven together by your interpreter module to account for as much of your behavior as it can incorporate, and it denies or rationalizes the rest." "Who's in Charge? Free Will and the Science of the Brain" by Michael S. Gazzaniga

  10. #1310
    Senior Member Array yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eilonwy View Post
    How do your and your sister's ways differ basically? Is it like in terms of schedule, activities, foods etc?

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