User Tag List

Page 130 of 170 FirstFirst ... 3080120128129130131132140 ... LastLast
Results 1,291 to 1,300 of 1696

Thread: When an INFJ doorslams you / cuts you out of their life / breaks off contact

  1. #1291
    Society
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    My mom was in her fifties, in good health, and able to work when all this happened. I hadn't made any commitments to care for her or do anything for her when the conflict began, though she had been living in my house at the start of the mess. I did not kick her out or ask her to leave. I just didn't want that guy in my house so she chose to move out.
    [...]
    I did not have an obligation to do anything for her and I had not made any commitments to her. I was just trying to be a good friend.
    based on those then at first glance you haven't.

    but i'll also admit that i limited myself to a shallow skim looking for the answers to those specific questions, and still got a bit of stuff.. ok, , cafe- you've one of the few people here who expressed genuine empathy. to be blunt with myself: what i can learn from a back and forth break down or comparing how you think or form seen you'd react to conflicting interpretations... well, it isn't worth potentially hurting you. and there is no way in hell topics this close wouldn't. i know that on the reverse such a situation would seem to me like a fake-choice of sorts , but FJs seem to be able to do this and go either way: if there are thoughts that would hurt you, would you rather i hold my tongue or would you rather i say them?

  2. #1292
    darkened dreams Array labyrinthine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    IXFP
    Enneagram
    4 sx/sp
    Socionics
    INFp None
    Posts
    7,550

    Default

    What do you mean by "fake-choice" @Mane?

    I hold the hypothesis that people in general have a deep coherency of thought and action, but when it appears to be inconsistent or with inner conflict, it is actually because applications of different core values/assumptions are in conflict. For example, there may be a scenario where it becomes impossible to apply two deeply held principles and so one must be prioritized. I think this is true of all people including FJs, but perhaps the FJ is more willing to have fluid principles that are recontextualized rather than absolute. Instead of a purely philosophical fundamentalism in which an inner value is held as a universal absolute (i.e. it is NEVER right to kill), the FJ may approach things in a more philosophically utilitarian value system in which the principle is more about results (i.e. maintain life for the most beings). The utilitarian may hold also that it is wrong to kill, but that value will need to be sacrificed in order to produce the applied ideal. The fundamentalist may refuse to kill even if it results in more death in the applied result.

    I have wondered if this is a difference between Fi and Fe. Both taken to their extreme can be phenomenally harmful or ethical, but I see both as equally consistent systems.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Admiral Crunch View Post
    It might be fine for some people, but I rather not live in a world where people think it is okay for dolphins to rape each other.

  3. #1293
    Senior Member Array yeghor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    2,433

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    I don't... I don't even know how to respond to this.

    Are you seriously making the claim here that after a certain amount of time has elapsed in a relationship...'grey' no longer exists. That after what...? 3, 5, 10, 15 years...the only reason a doorslam would occur would be if the INFJ in question had been exposed to bad/abusive behavior by their partner...behavior that actually occurred in the collective reality? How is this possible? After a certain amount of time INFJs become perfect? No longer subject to environmental factors? Stress. Mental illness. Addiction...

    What about ENFPs? If I doorslam someone...do the same conditions apply?

    I love the "when all other rational means have failed..." btw.
    I can see that FLD's comments triggered anger in you...perhaps it would be better if you told us about how your experience of doorslam differed from what FLD put forward...

    About the long time into the relationship thing:

    Whenever I start doing something new, it takes a while (longer than I would like) for me to get accustomed to the new dynamics...But when I finally get accustomed to it, it no longer bothers/stresses me...In fact, after that point it becomes harder for me to leave the dynamic I had gotten accustomed to...So the point that FLD made and resonated in me is that it is more probable for me to bail out (read freak out) from a new relationship in the earlier stages than the later stages (when I get accustomated to it and relaxed)...

    For instance, in 2007 I started working in a government office...I was in the engineering department and had to learn various aspects of the engineering work the office had been doing (cost analysis, technical specifications, tenders, implementation and supervision of contractors etc.)...Of course the new aspects of the job made me anxious at first but there was this relatively positive culture in the workplace that enabled me got through...I got much better at the technical and legislative aspects of the work than my peers in about 2-3 years, at which time I started noticing there was some fishy business going on with the tenders...I started objecting to some things as they were not in line with the legislation after which, some senior managers started turning up the pressure on me...and tried to strongarm me to accept their perception and do as they instructed me...I asked them for written instructions, they refused and one even told me this "I do not need an intelligent personnel...what I need is a personnel who does what I tell him to do..."...

    Anyway, the workplace culture became toxic for me, some coworkers drifted away from me as I was not favored by the management, some (who aligned with the management culture) became overtly/covertly hostile to me, some tried abusing my helpful nature to offload the risks/responsibilities of their own assignments on me, some hid into his/her own corner and started making up excuses for not taking assignments some of which ended up being my assignments...I tried advising my coworkers that if we don't stick together now, the management will force each and every one of them to submit to their whims but I failed to convince them (some even saw this as an attempt at manipulation/control or my weakness perhaps)...

    I couldn't appeal to one level higher in the management because they also had the same mentality/culture...didn't appeal to courts because I feared I may end up faulty in providing proof...I applied to HR for re-assignment to another department in the office, which was turned down...I think I can confidently say I was mobbed because I couldn't fit in with the workplace culture...It deteriorated my health as well...I started losing sleep, developed anxiety, depression and panic attacks...this process took me about 2 years at the end of which (in 2012) I quit my job even though I loved the work I was doing and I was competent (much more than my peers I must say) in it...I also ended up losing my income, which made me even more anxious as I am not a big risk-taker...So it was hard for me to end it but I had to...And there are only a 4-5 people in that office that I still talk...

    Fitting in with the perspective/dynamic the workplace culture expected/demanded of me would have required/forced me to become an entirely different man...To be able to cope with it, I would either have to be someone who learnt how to avoid certain assignments and offload them onto some other unsuspecting coworker (Fe≠Every man for his own), or someone who learnt how to appease the egos of the managers, or someone who went against duty and refused doing some of the assignments, or a bully who intimidated/coerced others into doing my assignments for me...

    Fast forward to 2014, that office is going through a major corruption investigation...

    So, FLD's comments ring true for me...I understand that some of the posters experienced doorslams that left them in pain and confusion...perhaps they can also share (like some INFJs here have already done) how their experience is different so that we can differentiate between the two...
    Last edited by yeghor; 01-19-2014 at 03:56 AM. Reason: Blue added

  4. #1294
    Senior Member Array cafe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    9w1
    Socionics
    INFj None
    Posts
    9,831

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    based on those then at first glance you haven't.

    but i'll also admit that i limited myself to a shallow skim looking for the answers to those specific questions, and still got a bit of stuff.. ok, , cafe- you've one of the few people here who expressed genuine empathy. to be blunt with myself: what i can learn from a back and forth break down or comparing how you think or form seen you'd react to conflicting interpretations... well, it isn't worth potentially hurting you. and there is no way in hell topics this close wouldn't. i know that on the reverse such a situation would seem to me like a fake-choice of sorts , but FJs seem to be able to do this and go either way: if there are thoughts that would hurt you, would you rather i hold my tongue or would you rather i say them?
    I will say this: with my mother, I did the best I could have done at the time. I doubt I could do any better now. Thankfully after all that creep cost her, she seems to have learned her lesson and my kids are nearly grown now, but if she ever puts me in a position like that again, she had better get out my door before it hits her in the ass because no one is allowed to put me through that kind of hell again.

    My friend, well, a lot of that was my fault for being very bad at saying no and terrible at boundaries. I've learned to be better about that stuff now. Not great but better.

    I don't really need your analysis. I feel bad for what you've gone though and I think it's a shame that you've so little recourse. It's a sucky situation and I can understand why you feel the way you do.

    However, I have been married to my husband for nearly twenty-two years. I've moved all over the country to chase his dreams, I've raised his four children nearly single-handedly, I've gone hungry with him. I've always taught the children to respect him. I've never been unfaithful to him. If anyone in my family (or anyone else, for that matter) said a cross word to him, I would hand them their ass on a paper plate.

    I would not leave him unless he broke faith with me in some way: he'd have to cheat on me, become addicted to substances, verbally or physically abuse me, or refuse to have sex with me for six or more months when he was not physically incapacitated. Something of that magnitude. And I would not leave without telling him, very bluntly and perhaps in writing, what I was unhappy about and what the consequences were going to be if we couldn't work something out. (I've never had trouble telling him stuff like that since I figured out after eight years of marriage that he wasn't being obtuse on purpose.)

    Unless he was physically abusing me. In that case I would do whatever I felt I needed to do to protect myself, including killing him in his sleep. And he knows damn good and well that I would. He'd be the first one to tell you that. He would tell you that if he pulled some of the shit he hears his co-workers saying they do, I'd have his balls hanging over the fireplace.

    I would only burn his keepsakes in the yard if he cheated on me because that would really piss me off and he knows I would do that because I told him so, so before he did something like that he'd be wise to hide anything he has a sentimental attachment to.

    I don't know what we'd do about the house. We paid less than $7K for it anyway and we both put sweat equity into it. Whoever most of the kids decided to live with (they are all old enough to decide on their own, but I'd probably get the youngest boy because he is not high enough functioning to be on his own most of the time and he may never be much better, it's too soon to tell) would get the van. The other person would get the car. I'd take my books, my clothes, my laptop, my pillow, and my dog (he doesn't like the dog, so he'd rather I took him) and he could do what he wanted with everything else. He could keep any of the books that belong to both of us. I'd just as soon have ebooks anyway. There's no alimony in our state, so I'd be on my own for money other than child support, but that would be temporary because the kids are nearly grown.

    If I was going to flake on him and leave, I'd have done it when the kids were little because that was a really sucky time for me. I did leave a place we lived with the kids with his full knowledge (he helped me load the van) because I was not doing well and the neighbors were hostile. He chose to stay there without us to finish the semester at school. I was more than happy to have him come to me when he was ready and I visited him in the meantime with the kids when we could afford to do so. We were apart four months and we both knew it wasn't personal against each other. We picked up where we left off with no hard feelings.

    So no, I'd just as soon you do not hurt my feelings, but I hope you can understand at some point that we aren't all like your ex. If you can't, you can't. It'd just be nice if you gave it a try.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  5. #1295
    darkened dreams Array labyrinthine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    IXFP
    Enneagram
    4 sx/sp
    Socionics
    INFp None
    Posts
    7,550

    Default

    Creating boundaries teaches others to be better people generally speaking. If you kick your dog, you don't get a dog. If you abuse your wife or children, you don't get a family. Then the person may get help, and create their next bond knowing there is a cost when you cause harm. That can be a kindness in some cases.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Admiral Crunch View Post
    It might be fine for some people, but I rather not live in a world where people think it is okay for dolphins to rape each other.

  6. #1296
    Away with the fairies Array Southern Kross's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4w5 so/sp
    Posts
    2,912

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    Absolutely. I recognised that was your intention. I was merely observing how you have skewed the information, how that affects me and the fact that this is a blind-spot area for INFJs.

    As for your question, I'm not sure. I don't think so. I think both Fi and Fe users can be susceptible to this but perhaps in different ways. I think peer pressure and shunning can have just as much effect on Fi user's psyche as a Fe user (and I speak from experience). Also Fi users can be very people pleasing too. They can fall into the trap of trying to please every individual, while losing sight of an utilitarian "greater good for all", for example.

    Interesting. So you see it as forcing them to commit to an argument when they're being evasive?

    This is a good explanation of what it looks like from the outside. I can see how that would be frustrating.

    The problem is for us NPs, is that we do it all by feel - especially with the NFPs because there is an added subjective element. NPs are only intuiting a hazy internal image of the end goal (ie. the idea in its complete form) and it only get's clearer as they talk it out and/or bounce ideas. They have to refine and narrow it all down bit by bit. The thing is we're not always being evasive; we're just trying to work things through and figure out our own thoughts as we go along. And the truth is, if you force an answer, it's probably going to be meaningless and possibly not at all pretty. You'll probably either get a random stab in the dark answer (like blindly choosing between doors 1, 2, 3 or 4), or you'll get reply that's relatively devoid of reason (like a silly flippant remark) and possibly purely emotionally driven (like an angry accusatory backlash). Hell, I'm like this if I people try to force me to choose what I want to drink.

    I do agree, though, that this can be employed in very self-serving terms.

    You do have to be careful about how you ask these questions though. They have to be open-ended and not, "choose option 1 or 2". You also have to give them some time to work through the idea before they can be expected to totally commit to it. It is valuable for you to openly offer your own views (if they are already organised and ready to go) and explain the way you see things, because that will allow you the room to speak your mind and it will help the Ne-user to refine their own views. Ne users like open questions and sharing of ideas because it helps built up a collection of Si images and to decide which image feels right to them.

    Is Ni-user a person who locked himself/herself in a strong fortress/box whereas a Ne-user is like a person who cannot force himself/herself to stabilize to one form?
    Yes, this seems accurate. The Ni user will be more decisive in action and will understand less factors yet more fully, but is more limited in scope and adaptability. The Ne user is relatively unlimited in scope and adaptability but is less decisive in action and will understand more factors yet less well. We both need time to even out the flaws in our Perception.

    Is a trusted Ni fortress a safehaven where Ne user can stop shifting and reveal his/her true/core self?
    That Ni fortress can be incredibly appealing, definitely. NPs love the fluidity of life and the world around them, but it can be quite overwhelming even for us. There can be great comfort and pleasure in resting on the knowledge and understanding of a NJ. However, it requires great faith and trust in that NJ, for us to let go of the reins, and that shouldn't be misused.

    Is a trusted Ne user is window/scrying pool for a Ni-user to safely observe/view alternate dimensions?
    In theory, yes. You could probably answer that better.

    Yes. Ne is slow to figure out Perspectives like Fe is slow to figure out Judgements. I think Fi users need to be fair on Fe in this regard, just as Ni users must be fair on Ne. But OTOH, both Ni and Fi need some criteria to start with. It can be painstaking, but we have to be a little patient and supportive of the other's needs.

    Really? Maybe you're right. In terms of intimacy, I would say I have a volume knob, not a on/off switch. So you're saying with a INFJ, either you're in or you're out?

    The bolded part immediately brought to my mind covert tactics like passive aggressiveness, emotional manipulation (playing on people's triggers?) etc...?
    I suppose it could potentially, although I meant it in neutral terms. It's like what I said earlier about things having a neutral quality until they are applied. It could be applied through using persuasive arguments, or it could be applied through outright manipulation.

    So, disarm = not trigger/push their buttons? Is this what @PeaceBaby meant with sidestepping people?
    No, it doesn't mean push their buttons, although I'm sure we all do that on occasion. However, that's what I consider the most underhand dirty tactic to use it for. I'm often aware of people's greatest flaws, their most vulnerable weaknesses and the things that matter most to them in the world, but I don't usually let that on. Going after those things is way below the belt; like using one's powers for evil. So it's very rare that I go for the jugular. And when I do, I almost always despise myself afterwards. Admittedly, I do on occasion exploit minor aspects of personal knowledge but usually for small things and it's less cruel (well, less evil anyway ). Still, it's not really right.

    Ideally, Fi interaction style is about supporting people's individual needs.

    I'm not sure which post you're referring to by PB. Could you quote it for me to it?

    Yeah, I guess. But I'm not entirely sure it's fair to be irritated by that. If it's a genuine blindspot it can't be helped. I suppose part of the problem is that it can be hard to let go of the inclination to assume they can do it but are just unwilling to.

    I do think that Fe will have a way around this - or at least there will be a fail-safe in INFJ thinking that will help get around the blindspot. I'm less knowledgeable in that field, but I know that there are fail-safes for INFP blindspots, so I assume there will be an equivalent for INFJs. That's why in part, people are here discussing it, I guess. With more complete awareness of the issue it may kick fail-safes into action the next times things go downhill, and the whole thing can be avoided or overcome.

    Hmm. What do you mean? Can you give an example?

    I guess it all somehow boils down to individuality versus collectivity and singularity versus multiplicity...
    Definitely. And we need a little of all of these in our lives.
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  7. #1297
    Away with the fairies Array Southern Kross's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4w5 so/sp
    Posts
    2,912

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Eilonwy View Post
    I've decided to ask my sister and her husband for a break from our weekly dinners. That doesn't sound like a big deal, but because of my past experiences with my family, what's been happening in my head is that I start imagining their response and planning on my own reaction (I'm sure there's some good typological explanation for that involving Ni somehow). And the response I imagine is mostly worst case scenario--bro-in-law will take it personally, get offended, and bite my head off. Or both of them will take it as a social slight and tell us to never come back for dinner ever again. Or they will see it as a taking away of their only opportunity to help with mom in a way that they are willing to help, so they will desperately try to keep us from taking a break.

    I do this a lot. Imagine responses and plan for them. And since there's not much reason to plan for the best, I tend to go for the worst. And then I feel dread. And I don't want to even tell them. I think that maybe I don't really need the break, or I think of other ways to get out of speaking up and facing the real response because the imaginary ones already feel horrible to me and I want to avoid more horrible feelings. So then I put off asking for what I need. I might rationalize it to myself as knowing how my family acts, which is true to an extent. Or maybe I'll tell myself I don't want to hurt their feelings. But by doing that I'm not giving them the chance to react. They might react well. I really can't know. And even if they do react badly, so what? It's a pain in the ass for me to have to keep repeating what I want to them when they don't listen, but it's gotten them to stop pouring Pepsi's for me when I don't want them (finally). And telling them sooner, rather than later has avoided a big blow up on my part. The thing is, I've made a small deal into a big deal in my own head before I've even tested it in reality to see if it actually will be a big deal. Then if it turns out to be a big deal, I've just added that to the already big deal in my head. So now it's an even bigger deal all the way around, AND I can justify that by telling myself that I called it in the first place and that they are just unreasonable people.

    Thing is, for the most part, when I've gone ahead and asked them for stuff like a break from the weekly dinners, they were actually more reasonable than I would have given them credit for. Not always, but most of the time.

    I can see where some of my own thought processes can be attributable to type; however, I don't know enough to actually point out what functions might be involved and in what way they're involved. Ni and Fe are in there somewhere.
    This must be exhausting I know you guys probably have to do it to a degree, because reacting on the fly isn't your forte but still...

    I can often tell when a INXJ has gone through all this process. It's like you when you walk into a room where several people are sitting together and you can tell by the subtle tension in the air that there's just been an argument prior to your entrance. You're then having to navigate through a quagmire of the unknown just to have conversation. It's a weird thing communicating with someone when you know there's a huge weight of ideas/issues/experiences/whatever dramatically influencing what they're saying but not having a clear sense of what it is, let alone how to deal with it.

    Of course it can be a positive thing too. I suppose it's in part what created the stereotype of INFJs being other-worldly and as having a special sort of charismatic warmth, because people sense the immense accumulation of thought and empathy behind the everyday, surface communication.

    BTW are you sure you're not a 6? The projecting of the worst cast scenario sounds like something a 6 would do. But then maybe all INFJs do this a bit too
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  8. #1298
    Vulnerability Array Eilonwy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    4 sp/so
    Posts
    6,102

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    This must be exhausting I know you guys probably have to do it to a degree, because reacting on the fly isn't your forte but still...

    I can often tell when a INXJ has gone through all this process. It's like you when you walk into a room where several people are sitting together and you can tell by the subtle tension in the air that there's just been an argument prior to your entrance. You're then having to navigate through a quagmire of the unknown just to have conversation. It's a weird thing communicating with someone when you know there's a huge weight of ideas/issues/experiences/whatever dramatically influencing what they're saying but not having a clear sense of what it is, let alone how to deal with it.

    Of course it can be a positive thing too. I suppose it's in part what created the stereotype of INFJs being other-worldly and as having a special sort of charismatic warmth, because people sense the immense accumulation of thought and empathy behind the everyday, surface communication.

    BTW are you sure you're not a 6? The projecting of the worst cast scenario sounds like something a 6 would do. But then maybe all INFJs do this a bit too
    The imagining and planning part doesn't seem to tire me out that much, but the feelings...the feelings are draining and distracting and don't go away that easily. Also, keeping the contingency "scripts" in mind, so that I have something halfway intelligible and brief to say when the time comes, is work. Sometimes intelligible conversation on the fly is difficult for me. There are so many pieces and parts of explanations and impressions still stuck in my head that what comes out of my mouth might only make complete sense to me.

    I don't know enough about enneagram to say if I'm a 6 or not. My theory is that INFJs are wired to solve abstract relational problems, much like INTJs solve concrete relational problems (systems and mechanics), so imagining worst-case scenarios is useful in trying to work towards the best/optimal outcome. That could be pure imagination and BS on my part, though. My other theory is that it would all depend on whether I've accumulated enough good experiences to have an overall more positive state of mind, and thus, imagine more positive scenarios.
    Johari / Nohari

    “That we are capable only of being what we are remains our unforgivable sin.” ― Gene Wolfe

    reminder to self: "That YOU that you are so proud of is a story woven together by your interpreter module to account for as much of your behavior as it can incorporate, and it denies or rationalizes the rest." "Who's in Charge? Free Will and the Science of the Brain" by Michael S. Gazzaniga

  9. #1299
    Senior Member Array yeghor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    2,433

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    ...how you have skewed the information...
    "Framed" might be a better word than "skew" perhaps? If you give me real life examples where and why you felt invalidated I can understand it better...If you don't, I end up having to give these examples so that you can verify if I understood it right or build on the example to clarify what you meant...otherwise your definitions (from my perspective) end up too ethereal for me to grasp...

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Really? Maybe you're right. In terms of intimacy, I would say I have a volume knob, not a on/off switch. So you're saying with a INFJ, either you're in or you're out?
    More like All-in or All-out I guess...The level of the "highest setting" changes wrt to the other party being family, friend, acquintance etc. but it remains constant (doesn't fluctuate) so long as the status of the other party does not change and the relationship continues...So if the other party frequently fluctuates his/her level of intimacy during the relationship (like sometimes acts a friend and sometimes as an acquitance etc.), I have a hard time adjusting my level (boundary)...If the disparity continues for too long or the wave height of the fluctuations are too large for me to compensate, then I turn it (Fe) off and bail out...

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    I suppose it could potentially, although I meant it in neutral terms. It's like what I said earlier about things having a neutral quality until they are applied. It could be applied through using persuasive arguments, or it could be applied through outright manipulation.
    So depends on the maturity of the individual...

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    No, it doesn't mean push their buttons, although I'm sure we all do that on occasion.
    @Southern Kross (I first edited this about a week ago but turns out I botched the mention tag then, correcting it once more now for clarification and your attention): I meant to say "So, disarm = do not trigger/ do (not) push their buttons? Is this what @PeaceBaby meant with sidestepping people?" like "live and let live"...

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    I'm not sure which post you're referring to by PB. Could you quote it for me to it?
    Here : ↓

    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby
    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor
    or when you feel that they are not sincere? or feel that they have have ulterior motives?
    I account for those variables and attempt to move past them. Lots of people are insincere. Lots of people have ulterior motives. This does not necessarily mean they are disingenuous.
    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Ideally, Fi interaction style is about supporting people's individual needs.
    So it caters not only the individual himself/herself but also to other individuals in the immediate/present environment of the Fi-user?

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    I'm less knowledgeable in that field, but I know that there are fail-safes for INFP blindspots, so I assume there will be an equivalent for INFJs.
    Failsafes? Can you give an example?

    Also, What should the non-INFJ do then to not trigger INFJs buttons/insecurities?

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Hmm. What do you mean? Can you give an example?
    I mean do you try to make people feel validated/comfortable in your presence or do you recognize the ailments/wounds in their emotional landscape and attempt to cure/modify/operate those wounds? If yes, how? By letting them pour out the poison by venting, crying etc?

    Do you recognize certain emotional landscapes to pose a threat to yourself or to others? How do you disengage from those people if you end up in any kind of relationship with one?

    I read the Jena Malone article by the way...thanks, a good read...
    Last edited by yeghor; 02-01-2014 at 06:09 AM. Reason: Blue added

  10. #1300
    Vulnerability Array Eilonwy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    4 sp/so
    Posts
    6,102

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    More like All-in or All-out I guess...The level of the "highest setting" changes wrt to the other party being family, friend, acquintance etc. but it remains constant (doesn't fluctuate) so long as the status of the other party does not change and the relationship continues...So if the other party frequently fluctuates his/her level of intimacy during the relationship (like sometimes acts a friend and sometimes as an acquitance etc.), I have a hard time adjusting my level (boundary)...If the disparity continues for too long or the wave height of the fluctuations are too large for me to compensate, then I turn it (Fe) off and bail out...
    This struck me. Here's a related idea that came together for me recently that might be helpful.

    The different types put their trust into different aspects of people. Pe dom/aux build a solid, stable core of values, so, even if what we see from the outside seems to shift and change, the inside core stays consistent. The trick is, you have to get to know what those values are, since they will be different for every individual. If they're values you align with, then I think you can trust that person through thick and thin.

    I'll use my ENFP best friend as an example. She rarely answers my messages to her, and when she does, her answers are likely to be short. My Fe wants a different kind of feedback, so her outward behavior would indicate to me that there's something wrong in our relationship--that we aren't close. But that's not true. When we do get the chance to talk a bit, she always indicates that we are close. She gauges closeness differently than I do. I have to trust that, despite outward appearances, she means what she says because that's the sort of thing she values. And she does value honesty in her relationships. She's demonstrated that in how honest she is with me about the things in herself that she doesn't consider acceptable. There are times when I know and trust that we're close, but then there are times when doubts start creeping in and I have to remind myself that just because I don't hear much from her, it doesn't mean that she has secretly decided to hate me and that's why she isn't responding to me. Every once in a while, I'll check in with her just to reassure myself and things are always fine.

    So, all of that made me wonder, what do I have that can be trusted in? I don't have that solid, stable core of values. I have values, and some of them are pretty solid, but they can change as priorities change--what was said about weighing the good of the group over the good of the one. My values seem to be a bit more flexible because inside my head is a lot more flexible than I seem to be outside. So, my solidness and stability are outside of me. I build solid outer structures. And I'm not sure exactly what Pe dom/aux people can trust in from me yet. Possibly what we are discussing in this thread is partly about that flexible inner core combined with that rigid outside structure: I appear to have a solid value that becomes flexible when a certain rigid outer "rule" has been violated. To someone who is used to a solid inner core of values, that must feel like getting the rug pulled out from under them. They trusted in a value they thought was solid, and it turned out not to be. Just like I would want to trust that someone is following the rules, then, when they don't, I feel like the rug has been pulled out from under me.


    ETA: So there ends up being a real leap of faith for both sides when they put their trust in someone who doesn't share their perceiving dom/aux.
    Johari / Nohari

    “That we are capable only of being what we are remains our unforgivable sin.” ― Gene Wolfe

    reminder to self: "That YOU that you are so proud of is a story woven together by your interpreter module to account for as much of your behavior as it can incorporate, and it denies or rationalizes the rest." "Who's in Charge? Free Will and the Science of the Brain" by Michael S. Gazzaniga

Similar Threads

  1. When any type other than INFJ doorslams you/cuts you out of their life
    By SilkRoad in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 46
    Last Post: 02-03-2014, 11:26 PM
  2. [INFJ] INFJ Daily Life: Plans, Strangers,etc?
    By plaminal in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 11-13-2011, 12:13 AM
  3. [MBTItm] INFJ negotiating mid-life
    By Immaculate Cloud in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 03-21-2009, 09:04 PM
  4. [INFJ] INFJ, inner life a little too rich?
    By littledarling in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 36
    Last Post: 02-18-2009, 02:23 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •