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  1. #1251
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by digesthisickness View Post
    *Disgruntled ENTP rant*

  2. #1252
    Vulnerability Eilonwy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    neither, at least as far as what i am discussing.

    i am not really interested in the argument on whether it is or isn't justified because then i end up counter-arguing the supporting ideologies by following their implications and the people on the other side just end up feeling ethically & ideologically prosecuted & then associate the emotional tone of shaming along side it. yes, i was surprised to find out that it got you (specifically) to take a step back and stop to think and re examine things, and i am happy about that and making a friend in the process, but i am not really oriented towards getting everyone here to do that.

    in the same time,at this point i am not really interested in "how to avoid the doorslam" because even if it is ethically justifiable from the point of view of the doorslammer to cut off their relationships, i think it's self-destructively insane to knowingly & lucidly go forth building & trusting in relationships with them. i am aware i could be wrong and i have placed the arguments in the open to let anyone address them, but that's not anywhere close to a high priority for me: i'm not invested in looking for the instruction book for that situation because as long as the arguments against it still stand i am not open to knowingly put myself in that situation in the first place. there might be dumber things to do, but not by much.
    Gah! I'm guilty of having a slightly different conversation, then, too. Carry on.

    ETA: Although I'm not trying to get everyone here to be your friend, either. More using the whole situation as an example to get to some level of awareness. I said it better in a previous post, but I'm too lazy to go find it and quote it right now. It may show up here later.

    ETA2: @Mane, I do realize that I went slightly to the right of what you were actually saying in even answering this--sorry. I see it, but it seems I still don't stop doing it. But messiness is okay, right?
    Johari / Nohari

    “That we are capable only of being what we are remains our unforgivable sin.” ― Gene Wolfe

    reminder to self: "That YOU that you are so proud of is a story woven together by your interpreter module to account for as much of your behavior as it can incorporate, and it denies or rationalizes the rest." "Who's in Charge? Free Will and the Science of the Brain" by Michael S. Gazzaniga

  3. #1253
    ✿ڿڰۣஇღ♥ wut ♥ღஇڿڰۣ✿ digesthisickness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    ✻ღϠ₡ღ✻
    (¯`✻´¯)
    `*.¸.*'ღϠ₡ღஇڿڰۣ
    •.¸¸. Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒჱܓ. இڿڰۣ.¸¸.இڿڰۣ´¯`·.─♥


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  4. #1254
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    I think anyone is capable of door slamming. I think ENTPs have a hard time understanding when they've gone too far. That's my experience with them, anyway. So to reinterate my earlier suggestion, maybe it's more productive, if you want to avoid being doorslammed, to try to prevent it on your own side first.

    But accepting loss is part of life, unfortunately. Sometimes, despite everyone's best efforts, things just don't work out.

    Mane, I hope you find the secret of discovering someone is a doorslammer before the fact, and I'll remember in time not to fall in love with someone's ideals when they haven't actually realized any of them.

  5. #1255
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    not sure if the edit is an attempt at a graceful exit, but if so i won't add to the benter: good luck

  6. #1256
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    Quote Originally Posted by digesthisickness View Post
    Ugh. Now, I feel like someone needs to point out that NOT ALL ENTPs use their functions the same way and therefore not all do this. I'm huge on respecting other's autonomy because autonomy is a big value to me, and being where I'm not wanted is something I try to avoid.
    i've considered that route - can i ask what comes in that package? basically whenever anyone makes any kind of commitments or asks you to trust them just add a "unless they doorslam me" disclaimer in the back of the mental note? any claim anyone make about what they believe they would/wouldn't do always needs an "except when doing so would conflict with your ego" disclaimer? i am sort of adopted an everything is for now mentality on/off... well, for now. but to keep it permanently? would you be able to really trust anyone but yourself? or... is that the point?

  7. #1257
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    i've considered that route - can i ask what comes in that package? basically whenever anyone makes any kind of commitments or asks you to trust them just add a "unless they doorslam me" "unless I treat them like crap" disclaimer in the back of the mental note? […]
    Once the quote is fixed, then yeah, that's kind of how things work in the real world.

  8. #1258
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    Quote Originally Posted by digesthisickness View Post
    Ugh. Now, I feel like someone needs to point out that NOT ALL ENTPs use their functions the same way and therefore not all do this. I'm huge on respecting other's autonomy because autonomy is a big value to me, and being where I'm not wanted is something I try to avoid. To do otherwise is disgusting to me.

    To continue arguing with someone who isn't interested in doing so for whatever personal reason is extremely non-productive and distasteful and comes off as desperate and immature in my view.

    Now, I'll leave you guys to it. Defending that which shouldn't have to be defended in the first place.
    Just busting Mane's chops.

    Mane keeps trying to create an obligation on the other person's side ("You're not allowed to doorslam me") while ignoring any complicity or obligation relating to how he got into that situation in the first place. Kind of like the criminal complaining about the sentence he received in the courtroom while downplaying how he ended up in the courtroom in the first place.

    You, on the other hand, understand how things work in the real world.

  9. #1259
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    FLD is my hero for, like, at least the next 24 hours probably.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    Mine, too.
    Cool! Thanks!

  10. #1260
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    oh cool @FDL - you found out why my ex doorslammed me! tell me exactly: what did i do? how exactly did i treat her like crap? give me the dirt man!

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