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Thread: When an INFJ doorslams you / cuts you out of their life / breaks off contact

  1. #1241
    Senior Member Array yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    dances the macarena? i can't quite say i know him that well.

    why: what is it that you think he should/shouldn't do?
    I think you already know what

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    Senior Member Array cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd Girl View Post
    I'm struggling to find the love in here. It's he did this and she did that and I want this and I needy need that. What happened to, "ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country?"
    That is exactly the attitude that gets me into these messes in the first place. Because no matter how I might like things to be otherwise, I am only one person and I can only do so much.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  3. #1243
    Senior Member Array Tiltyred's Avatar
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    I don't care what he does, as long as he doesn't do it around me.

    I doorslammed my ex-husband, too, now that I think of it. His girlfriend called to tell me he was in the hospital and asking for me, and I said I wasn't coming, and she accused me of being heartless, but then she started asking me questions like "Did he interfere in your other relationships, for example, with your family, when you were together?" and I said yes, etc., and the next thing I know, I come home from work one day and my home phone message mailbox is full, and it's phone call after phone call of rants about how he never thought that I would be vindictive. From my point of view, I was not being vindictive, I was honestly answering his girlfriend's questions, but whatever. I moved, and changed my phone number, and bought a different car, and I don't know if he lives or dies, now, years later. The time for him to talk to me was back when I was asking him if he was having an affair, you see. When we were going to a marriage counselor, that would have been a good time for talking.

    In my experience, the door slam does not happen for no reason. There's a whole lot that leads up to it.

  4. #1244
    wants Mifune clone minion Array Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    No, it's not about having the last word, but it is about being forced to submit to an external factor. Like what I said above, INFJs can limit the scope and terms of the discussion in a way that prevents me from ever really having a say. I'm so busy doing Ti style explanations or counter-arguments (which are very difficult and mentally exhausting for me personally) that I can never really speak freely and bring up the things I want to. I'm trapped into discussing what the INFJ wants to discuss and how he/she wants to discuss it. The thing is sometimes, deep down in the recesses of my mind, I can almost feel the INFJ reaching in and sweeping aside my beliefs, my opinions, my way of seeing the world, bit by bit, and filling it with their own. I can feel myself losing sight of the things that matter, but I feel helpless to stop it. I don't necessarily blame INFJs for this; for the most part it is just them communicating the way that they do naturally and they can't be expected to know how that feels on the receiving end for me personally. However, there are times when INFJs employ this technique ruthlessly and I'm pretty sure they know exactly what they're doing. They might not comprehend the full impact of it and merely see it as hard-bargaining, but it is crossing a line.

    This is fascinating to me. I can’t relate to it at all in regard to beliefs, opinions, etc- because I feel like *if* my beliefs or opinions are valuable, then they can’t disappear. It’s sorta like “if 2 + 2 really does equal 4, then it will still equal 4 tomorrow, so I don’t have to put effort into remembering it.’ *But* I can relate insofar as my experience of Ne. I really can’t handle being pummeled with Ne. I can’t share ideas or theories until they’re congealed, I can’t work them out aloud against Ne- because it’s like creating sand art near 3 open doors and 4 open windows on a windy day. Ne doms especially, but even some aux- the topic changes before I get half a chance to express the single tangent I’m trying to get out of my head. Imagine using a chalkboard to work some problem out- and there's someone standing nearby who can't stand to have anything on the chalkboard for more than 3 minutes, so they erase absolutely everything you've written exactly three minutes after you've written it with no ability to discern what's still relevant and what isn't....*Ne*; after a while, it gets to the point where I can't even think around the person and I NEED to block them out just to be able to think.** And I feel like nothing gets heard- all my words just keep providing springboards for new topics, but my meaning is systematically glossed over.

    The somewhat strange thing is that with certain Ne folks- who seem to be able to intuit what I’m getting at- it’s actually incredibly helpful because they can understand what I’m getting at and they can help me assemble it (semantically) faster. That’s rare, though.

    I wish I could get a better handle on how Fe does this (the thing described in the above quote- other Fi'ers have stated something similar). It’s loathsome to me, the thought that I might be making someone else feel like it’s not available to disagree.

    [And SK- I actually am reading that article you posted on Jena Malone and collecting my thoughts about it. (It’s long!) That was a good idea, to post a link to an objective account to see if opinions vary. The way that everyone brings their own baggage to this thread, filling in the blanks with their own experience, really does cause a lot of miscommunication.]


    Quote Originally Posted by FLD View Post

    ENTPs like to insist that no one can leave until everything has been talked out, because that's how ENTPs win: They just bullshit until the other party gives in from exhaustion.

    Here's a rule for you: If you don't want someone to bail on you, then don't treat them like crap.

    FLD is my hero for, like, at least the next 24 hours probably.



    **eta: And this is exactly why, I think, the opposing point of view in this thread comes off as practically sadistic to me- there seems to be this attitude like, "The amount of distress you feel because of how little discipline I have over my impulsive need to plow over you and your thoughts and your feelings does not matter, the ONLY thing that matters is how much distress *I* feel when I can't have what I want. I AM ENTITLED TO YOUR ATTENTION/AFFECTION, END OF DISCUSSION. Also: if you disagree, it's because your dominant function comes up with delusional stories to discredit what I'm saying. Even Jung says so."
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

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  5. #1245
    Senior Member Array Tiltyred's Avatar
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    Mine, too.

  6. #1246
    Senior Member Array yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eilonwy View Post
    What actions did people around you consider to be controlling? How did you then modify your behaviour so that it would not come across as controlling? Can you give an example please?

    I also suggested this earlier, any further thoughts are welcome:

    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor

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    Vulnerability Array Eilonwy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    [...]
    I don't know if this example will help, but I offer it just in case -- I just had to doorslam a guy at work. [...]
    Does your example fit the working definition, though?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    the act of cutting off ties in reactions to perspectives of yourself which conflict with your ego.
    I think we're all having slightly different conversations, and that's why I said I don't think it's about no means no.


    ETA: I swear I'll get to all your questions, @yeghor. I might have time later tonight. I'm not ignoring you. The convo is just moving faster than I have time to reply.

    ETA2: Darn it, all of you! You're supposed to be the puppets in MY play. Slow it down so I can keep up!
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    reminder to self: "That YOU that you are so proud of is a story woven together by your interpreter module to account for as much of your behavior as it can incorporate, and it denies or rationalizes the rest." "Who's in Charge? Free Will and the Science of the Brain" by Michael S. Gazzaniga

  8. #1248
    Senior Member Array Tiltyred's Avatar
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    Ah, the idea that INFJs cut ties with anyone who holds up a mirror and shows them a picture they don't appreciate.
    My idea is that the particulars don't matter. The reason doesn't matter. If someone doorslams you, respect it and move on.
    As to the idea that one should sit still and listen to ideas about yourself that you don't agree with and that make you look bad to yourself, I don't know who would find that pleasant, and I don't know who would readily comply with it, and I'm not sure what the point of it would be to begin with. What that comes down to in plain English is listening to someone tell you how much they don't like you and wanting you to agree with them. It's not very likely, is it?

  9. #1249
    ✿ڿڰۣஇღ♥ wut ♥ღஇڿڰۣ✿ Array digesthisickness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FLD View Post
    ENTPs like to insist that no one can leave until everything has been talked out, because that's how ENTPs win: They just bullshit until the other party gives in from exhaustion.

    Here's a rule for you: If you don't want someone to bail on you, then don't treat them like crap.
    Ugh. Now, I feel like someone needs to point out that NOT ALL ENTPs use their functions the same way and therefore not all do this. I'm huge on respecting other's autonomy because autonomy is a big value to me, and being where I'm not wanted is something I try to avoid. To do otherwise is disgusting to me.

    To continue arguing with someone who isn't interested in doing so for whatever personal reason is extremely non-productive and distasteful and comes off as desperate and immature in my view.

    Now, I'll leave you guys to it. Defending that which shouldn't have to be defended in the first place.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eilonwy View Post
    Thing is, I don't think we're discussing whether no means no. It seems to me that that is a level up from what we're trying to figure out. What happens to get to the point of no means no? Could there be other ways of handling the situation so that we don't even have to get to no means no?
    neither, at least as far as what i am discussing.

    i am not really interested in the argument on whether it is or isn't justified because then i end up counter-arguing the supporting ideologies by following their implications and the people on the other side just end up feeling ethically & ideologically prosecuted & then associate the emotional tone of shaming along side it. yes, i was surprised to find out that it got you (specifically) to take a step back and stop to think and re examine things, and i am happy about that and making a friend in the process, but i am not really oriented towards getting everyone here to do that.

    in the same time,at this point i am not really interested in "how to avoid the doorslam" because even if it is ethically justifiable from the point of view of the doorslammer to cut off their relationships, i think it's self-destructively insane to knowingly & lucidly go forth building & trusting in relationships with one. i am aware i could be wrong and i have placed the arguments in the open to let anyone address them, but that's not anywhere close to a high priority for me: i'm not invested in looking for the instruction book for that situation because as long as the arguments against it still stand i am not open to knowingly put myself in that situation in the first place. there might be dumber things to do, but not by much.

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