[NF] NFs and religion

[kelric]

[*]Are you an NF?

I'd say... probably. I usually consider myself slightly on the F side of INxP.

[*]Are you religious/spiritual?

No. I'm definitely not religious in any way, and although I sometimes think of myself as a spiritual person, it's probably more accurate to think of myself as a secular idealist. My "spiritual code" (such as it exists) revolves more around hope for the future, both for myself humanity in general. I tend to see organized religion and most of the core beliefs that they're constructed around as effective tools in controlling people, although I can't deny that those groups have had a positive impact on select people (but I'd contend for different, and far more mundane, reasons than most believers do).

[*]Do you have supernatural/paranormal beliefs?

No. I think that most of these are grown out of myths and propagated based on their appealing dramatic qualities. I do love a good story, but don't believe that ghosts, demons, angels, etc. exist outside of fiction.

[*]Why do you have these beliefs, or why do you lack them?

Hard to say. The rest of my family consider themselves Christian, although we never attended church when I was growing up, so I didn't get the religious upbringing that many do. I'm not particularly bothered that science doesn't have all of the answers to *everything*, and that its conclusions can change as new data are found - it seems like a far more grounded source for reaching functional conclusions than religion is, even if those conclusions aren't set in stone. Saying "Here's why I think the things I do, but I could be wrong" is something that I consider wise - and it's something that most religions I've seen aren't willing to do (note that I'm differentiating religious canon from the individuals who believe - I find that most people are far more flexible than their religious institution's "official line").

 

[aeon]

• Are you an NF?
• Are you religious/spiritual?
• Do you have supernatural/paranormal beliefs?
• Why do you have these beliefs, or why do you lack them?

• Yea, INFP.
• I am not religious. I am spiritual to the degree that my being is of a spiritual nature and expression.
• I have no supernatural/paranormal beliefs.
• I do not have them because no-thing seems to transcend or go beyond nature. I prefer being open to the experience of my senses, feelings, thoughts, and intuition as it concerns these things. I do not need to believe inasmuch as I need to listen, have wonder, and always acknowledge that I do not know any-thing for certain.

cheers,
Ian

 

[tovlo]

• Are you an NF?
• Are you religious/spiritual?
• Do you have supernatural/paranormal beliefs?
• Why do you have these beliefs, or why do you lack them?

Wow...well, the first question was easy.

Am I NF?

Yes.

Am I religious?

Based on an understanding of this word involving an organized system of belief and worship of a deity...not at this present point in my life.

Am I spiritual?

I think to the very core of my nature.

Do I have any supernatural or paranormal beliefs?

Not specifically. I am, however, quite open to their possibility.

Why do I have or lack these beliefs?

Because to my eyes I see it as earnest, but futile folly for humanity to try to log and label unfathomable complexity and call it tamed.

 

[scantilyclad]

I am an NF. I am not religious or spiritual and i don't have any supernatural or paranormal beliefs. I grew up in a family of conservative southern baptists who forced me to go to church from the day i was born. I went to sunday school but i never really believed what they were telling me. To me it was more of a fictional story. By the time i was around 13 i really started questioning my sunday school teachers, because i wanted to understand how people actually believed that some of the stuff was true. I guess you can say i've been a non believer since i was about 5.

 

[Domino]

I think NFs are interested in spirituality because of their affinity with abstract thought. The popular myth is that religion has something to do with spiritualit and people deeply cherish that belief. NFs buy into this one because its valued a great deal by others and suppress their vivid intuition that the two have little in common.

Religion is no more than an instrument of social control. Spirituality is used to support this for the sake of making the tool more efficient.

Then how do you explain the rationale of Clive Staples Lewis?

 

[htb]

Then how do you explain the rationale of Clive Staples Lewis?

Real-world experience.

 

[Domino]

Real-world experience.

Can I get in the middle of that robot hug?

 

[htb]

Can I get in the middle of that robot hug?

010011010110000101111001011000100110010100101110

 

[SolitaryWalker]

Then how do you explain the rationale of Clive Staples Lewis?

Lewis seems to argue in favor of why, you as an individual should embrace a religious lifestyle, yet he seems to pay little attention to the public utility of religion.

 

[htb]

he seems to pay little attention to the public utility of religion.

...I have been writing hitherto on the assumption that the people in the next pew afford no rational grounds for disappointment. Of course, if they do -- if the patient knows that the woman with the absurd hat is a fanatical bridge player or the man with squeaky boots a miser and an extortionist -- then your task is so much the easier. All you then have to do is to to keep out of his mind the question "If I, being what I am, can consider that I am in some sense a Christian, why should the different vices of those people in the next pew prove that their religion is mere hypocrisy and convention?"

From The Screwtape Letters. Lewis knew of the objection, as would any serious apologist all the way back to the apostle Paul, implicitly; man's incapacity for perfect institutions material to the fate of the church. Lewis simply overruled it.

 

[brazz]

I'm an ENFP. I don't view myself as religious, but I think I am pretty spiritual. I'm just too questioning for religion. I view religion more of an answer to the questions spirituality poses. However, I think that each person has his or her own answer, so large religious groups don't particularly work.

With the supernatural and paranormal... Gah. I don't know. I have a sort of humanist view I guess in that I think we live our own lives. We make our own decisions and react to influences in our lives. There is no set path, no set right or wrong choice, etc. So even though I'm spiritual, I don't really believe in the supernatural or paranormal occuring on Earth. That is... in the connotative sense "paranormal" and "supernatural" present.

Completely understanding something large or small scale for a brief moment, epiphanies, deja vu, happiness, love. I feel like those... are sort of spiritual, supernatural, magical, what have you.

I was raised Catholic until about 7 or 8 years old. When I was twelve or thirteen we "became" born-again Christian types, which looking back on it, really frustrates me. I remember asking my mom why "mass" was called just church now and why the pastor was married. And why we weren't allowed to pray to Mary anymore and all that.

I got really into it during middle school and was baptised and whatnot, but then eventually I realized that I felt brainwashed. I'm not saying anyone born-again is, but I realized that I wasn't making the decisions I was making. I was succumbing to pressure from the pastor's wife, the praise group leader, my "Sunday school" teacher, my aunt, my cousins, even my mom and dad to some extent.

That's just my issue with introducing children to religion. They're just so impressionable that they'll allow you to make the decisions for them on what to believe. I don't know how I will raise my children in regards to a higher being, but I don't want to make choices for them.

My INFP best friend and I had a three hour long conversation about this. I think this was the best, condense sense I could type out, and it still seems a bit confusing.

 

[PuddleRiver]

We have thought about trying out a Lutheran church. My impression is that they are good about teaching solid Christian doctrine without being all right-wing about stuff. That sounds nice.

I've thought a lot about the Lutheran church, as well. I wish there was one anywhere close to me. I can't stand this 'other' stuff, so I don't go to church at all.

I grew up in the church, a 'liberal' Church of God, none of this super fundie stuff, a very spiritual place.

I miss it.

 

[gretch]

• Are you an NF?
• Are you religious/spiritual?
• Do you have supernatural/paranormal beliefs?
• Why do you have these beliefs, or why do you lack them?

How about you?

Are you an NF?
Yes, ENFP.

Are you religious/ Spiritual?
Yes. I am LDS, or mormon if you'd rather.

Do you have supernatural/paranormal beliefs?
Er. Aren't they kind of the same thing?

Why do you have these beliefs, or why do you lack them?
The feelings I have about God are too many to limit to a single idea or thought. But if I had to I would say: Love. Gandhi said, "love is the subtlest truth in the universe." I believe in a God of love and openness and acceptance.

 

[gretch]

I think NFs are interested in spirituality because of their affinity with abstract thought. The popular myth is that religion has something to do with spiritualit and people deeply cherish that belief. NFs buy into this one because its valued a great deal by others and suppress their vivid intuition that the two have little in common.

Religion is no more than an instrument of social control. Spirituality is used to support this for the sake of making the tool more efficient.

Not to be controversial, but isn't the thought of social control a form of social control? This statement is regurgitated over and over. I would take a deep felt intuitive understanding of love and acceptance over a textbook 'social control quote'. All things are 'social control' so how does this de-validate religion if it de-validates everything else? If nothing has meaning then we just start at the beginning and give meaning to the things that have meaning. Do you follow? Where did you learn this idea? Is it a deep seated, epic and beautiful commentary on society? Maybe. But is it original at all? No, I'm afraid it is as old as religion.

 

[gretch]

Sorry for three posts... heh.

I find atheism distasteful. I mean any belief that is based upon 'you can't know that that is true. I know with out a shadow of a doubt that it is not true' irks my rationale. If anything be agnostic.

 

[findthejake]

I grew up in a very hardcore christian family, I was basically bred to be a preacher or missionary.

As soon as my christian bubble that I was living in popped, I saw a whole new world and I liked it way more than the one I grew up in. I haven't formed any new beliefs yet but I have thrown away all the old ones. They just don't fit with what I know now.