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Thread: Fi 101

  1. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post

    Ahh...this is the connection that I wasn't able to make before. Thanks for explaining.

    From my perspective I wouldn't assume that being critical of a movie is the same as being critical of a person. However, I can see how I could be intimidating to a person who would associate the two. The people who know me well say I'm totally non-judgemental, and I if anything I think too highly of other people. On the other hand I'm very critical of "things": organizations, artistic pieces, gizmos around my house, etc.... I don't see that as being critical of people, but I can see how an NFP would.

    I'm not sure if that works exactly the same with an SFP though. I tend to have the hardest time communicating with the ISFP's I know, and I don't think it is exactly the same type of thing going on with an ISFP. Well I don't think they'd expect something to be talked up to be "fair". However I think they are worried that I might be judging them. That part I think is the same.

    Thanks again for the input.
    I've been a bit like that in the past. What I liked felt like an extension of myself and expressing that was an expression of myself. So in tearing it down it was the same as tearing into me which only served to piss me off. As I got older I saw that others had their own stupid opinions and that had no bearing on me as an individual. I think in a way I switched to seeing everybody as an individual with competing agendas at some point.

  2. #72
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    Huh. I guess, again, I don't personalize it as much. Someone made a movie, yes, and someone put their time/effort into it and it meant a lot to that person. But that person surely recognizes that the fact HE values his work doesn't entitle him to having other people value it, right? I mean, that's part of life...you put a product of yours out there - whether it be something you created, or whether that product is YOU, as an individual - and it's rather a given that it won't be viewed favorably by all, and others have just as much right to dislike the product as you have for liking it.
    I tend hardly to be as universalist as the NFPs, so people can rip on movies all they like, but... in a context where a creator is present or somehow around in the ether or if an opinion is to be taken seriously at all, ripping on something is required to be constructive. Interestingly, remembering that "the fact HE values his work doesn't entitle him to having other people value it" isn't constructive. It's status-quo, it's harmony. It doesn't (immediately) identify which team has the opinion that will move construction forward. Thinking that way is an Fe win, and a Te fail.

    The clans will never be united. :sad:
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  3. #73
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    I tend hardly to be as universalist as the NFPs, so people can rip on movies all they like, but... in a context where a creator is present or somehow around in the ether or if an opinion is to be taken seriously at all, ripping on something is required to be constructive. Interestingly, remembering that "the fact HE values his work doesn't entitle him to having other people value it" isn't constructive. It's status-quo, it's harmony. It doesn't (immediately) identify which team has the opinion that will move construction forward. Thinking that way is an Fe win, and a Te fail.

    The clans will never be united. :sad:
    Actually..well, I agree on your point re. constructive critiques. I mean, it's not like I don't have reasons for liking or disliking things - whether it be movies, books, or anything else. So if I were to actually have a discussion on why a movie is good or bad, I would prefer it to have some meat to it, rather than be purely subjective. I mean, I think there are objective standards/frameworks as some of these things go. That said, I don't tend to get up in arms about these sorts of things anyway. If I find merit in a movie, and someone else doesn't, I might be amused/surprised, and wonder why they dislike it, but it wouldn't really go beyond that. And vice versa, if someone really loves a movie I loathe, I'll be curious why, but I won't bash them for it.

    I was merely surprised by Amar's pov in terms of bringing up the creator of the movie, that's all; as far as movies go, I only care about the final product. So I was trying to say I don't really agree with the fact that everyone always deserves some sort of kudos for their work/products, when in fact the product itself might be abysmal on many counts (be it acting, cinemetography, plot, screenplay, whatever)...the fact that they cared about it doesn't mean a whole lot as far as the potential quality of the product. I'm not going to go out of my way to ooh and aah over something that I don't think has any merit at all, just because someone else put a lot of work into it. It might not be deserving of it. That was more of my point, I guess.
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  4. #74
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Amar actually raised a pretty good point (he says, speaking N. The stuff about movies is frankly a little weird and if an ENFP tried to pull that while I was ripping on some movie, that date might go a little strange. Come to think of it, I know ENFPs who do that massive over universalising thing...hmmm. But...) The (Te/Fi) idea behind it, that people work to create something because they have a vision or a feeling, and the object created is a product of inner passion, and that passion is respectable even if the product is crap, and so, especially if the product is crap, you contribute to realisation or you waste time...

    Very Te/Fi, I think.



    The clans may end up united. Te is shallow by itself but gains depth when plugged into Fi and some perception function, and users get annoyed when Ti contributes because the depth Ti brings is of a conflicting kind to the other Xi's in use; and Te gets stymied when Fe takes over the reins and orders a different kind of environmental arrangement, thinking as Te users do that feeling is already covered in depth by Fi, but maybe Fi's got something to learn about the outside world, even if it looks shallow... and so we become one happy, united clan. A family of sorts, with some in-fighting. We'll have to invade England for more baronial estates.
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  5. #75
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    I didn't think of it before, but Kalach did mention something I wanna stress...a lot of stuff that's created out there, which to me has some meaning (I'm not talking things that were clearly designed to make money only), is likely to be created by Artisans... often Fi-users. And although their Fi might not be mine, I can nevertheless see the vision they had. Even if the execution is poor, the idea itself, the concept, has merit. And instead of bashing it till nothing's left of it, suggestions on how it could be improved and how great it could be are very much more appreciated, at least in my case. Again, it's cheap and low to me to bash something into the ground and have nothing else to offer in its stead. For that matter, do that to something I actually care a lot for, a person, something I made and thought you would appreciate, for that matter me as a person, or the very actions that identify me, and I'll consider you the most arrogant, hypocritical and useless person around. Everything you just told me just serves to hurt me or someone I loved..and after all of that, you have *nothing* to offer on how it could be better? Really? So...basically, you felt like trashing something to make yourself feel better and superior. Right. Now let's see you live up to your own standard, plz!
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  6. #76
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    I didn't think of it before, but Kalach did mention something I wanna stress...a lot of stuff that's created out there, which to me has some meaning (I'm not talking things that were clearly designed to make money only), is likely to be created by Artisans... often Fi-users. And although their Fi might not be mine, I can nevertheless see the vision they had. Even if the execution is poor, the idea itself, the concept, has merit. And instead of bashing it till nothing's left of it, suggestions on how it could be improved and how great it could be are very much more appreciated, at least in my case. Again, it's cheap and low to me to bash something into the ground and have nothing else to offer in its stead. For that matter, do that to something I actually care a lot for, a person, something I made and thought you would appreciate, for that matter me as a person, or the very actions that identify me, and I'll consider you the most arrogant, hypocritical and useless person around. Everything you just told me just serves to hurt me or someone I loved..and after all of that, you have *nothing* to offer on how it could be better? Really? So...basically, you felt like trashing something to make yourself feel better and superior. Right. Now let's see you live up to your own standard, plz!
    Doesn't this have its limitations, however? I mean, you couldn't apply that to a Uwe Boll movie, particularly when it's known that he throws crap movies together to exploit the German film policy, right?

  7. #77
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    See what I wrote between (...)
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  8. #78
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    What about Vogon poetry - I mean, it's generally agreed upon (even by them) that it's complete crap, and yet, the go on making it

  9. #79
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    It wouldn't exist if someone (most likely the maker) didn't appreciate it
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  10. #80
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    EDIT: Actually that made no sense sorry.



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