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Thread: Fi 101

  1. #51
    Glycerine
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Boys, nobody says you have to be here. Considering the replies this thread already generated, I'd say there's still a need to debate this, though I admit it's been debated to death already. Let's hope that this time we get further again. This is kinda like figuring out the grammar rules to a language. Ask a native speaker to teach you their language and they'll struggle coz it comes naturally to them and they don't know the rules really. It takes time and trial and error to actually put those together. So let's bear that in mind, plz.
    I'm a female, silly. I actually think I understand Fi better than Fe, oddly enough. Fi seems a lot more straightforward to me than Fe. I can't relate to most Fe definitions about social protocol. It's like .

  2. #52
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Fe-users are guides and preventors. Fi-users are solvers and cataclysts, imo.
    Cataclysts? Bringers of the cataclysm? I agree.

    Also, the discussion in this thread rocks.


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  3. #53

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    What do you perceive as the main differences between how SFP and NFP express Fi?

  4. #54

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    Question 121 (Noigmn's ENFPQ test)

    Assume:
    - You are ENTP or INFJ
    - Fe is to Fi as Te is to Ti
    - Ti is to Te as Fi is to Fe

    Working analogically:
    i) What would an Fi perspective be and what would it try to achieve?

    ii) What would a Te perspective be and what would it try to achieve?

    iii) What traits of Fe and Ti would annoy an FiTe and cause conflict?
    Freude, schöner Götterfunken Tochter aus Elysium, Wir betreten feuertrunken, Himmlische, dein Heiligtum! Deine Zauber binden wieder Was die Mode streng geteilt; Alle Menschen werden Brüder, Wo dein sanfter Flügel weilt.

  5. #55
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfy View Post
    What do you perceive as the main differences between how SFP and NFP express Fi?
    Well, obviously one is expressed through Se and one through Ne. And now I am going to ramble aimlessly...

    I think Se is more focused on the immediate moment, using the 5 senses to channel their imagination into tangible expressions. Even in their altruistic endeavors they seem more hands-on and take-action, with a view to immediate results. They seem to relate their feelings more directly to experience which makes them less... "romantic" shall we say; but there's also less extrapolation to understand foreign feelings. Probably why they don't get the "healer" stereotype INFPs get.

    In some ways, I think their Fi may be more difficult to express, because Fi is rather abstract in itself, but Se isn't, and the ISFP has to reconcile the two. The INFP has an abstract outlet to use. I think this encourages a kind of innovation in ISFPs that often leads to so many of them being original & creative artists. I also know ISFPs with "causes" like an NF, but the approach is very different - it's kind of on ground level, content to start small and work up, because Se connects to reality better. However, the ideas can be pretty noble, from my perspective. The whole "DIY" attitude has always seemed very SP to me, but maybe it's the ones I've known.

    Ne is more future-oriented, and sees patterns, and forms theories/concepts/ideas with fuel from Fi (or vice verse). So INFPs tend to seek more quixotic means of expression, be it through their moral causes or creating stories to express their ideas through illustration, or maybe creating literal illustrations . Because the INFP does extrapolate their feelings and apply it metaphorically, it gives the feelings a universal application in the form of ideals. Theory can be trusted over experience because of this, because experience is too limited for the INFP, and it always falls short of this vision of perfection. That's where the idealistic mindset comes in.

    INFPs are less action-oriented, but may take action after their ideas have incubated for awhile; and they're more likely to accomplish their objective by simply communicating their ideas, because the idea is an end unto itself. The long term view makes the INFP feel that expression is enough, and again, localized action can feel limiting to someone who is dreaming in such large format. We still deal best in the background, one-on-one, because we are individual-oriented and reaching people as individuals makes sense to us, as opposed to Fe which seems to be more skilled at influencing a group (and I mean that positively, okay Fe people?).

    I also made some comments in a past thread about the differences between an INFP and an ISFP visual artist. Generally, INFPs may tend to be more conceptual & spend more time theorizing how they'll do it than simply doing it. ISFPs sometimes seem to let the expression reveal itself, by becoming absorbed in the physical creative process. That's my shaky theory, and no one really denied it at the time . I think there is a not a clear line, because I actually do both, but a tendency can say a lot.
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  6. #56
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Damn, Kalach, you quoted the one sentence I wanted to change

    Yes, I do believe NFPs act like cataclysts and NFJs as...well almost, herders and keepers. We both guide and solve in our own way. They'll provide workable fixes to keep things going smooth, sort out stuff on the fly, to keep the work going, and guide people around big issues to make sure they don't get sucked into it, to keep them safe.

    Me, personally, I'll guide you through the big issues instead of around and get to the bottom of them with you, so you can solve it yourself. So you have the tools to deal with it if it ever would occur again. Or, for that matter, so you can make sure it doesn't happen again. To show you that mirror inside so you can see who you are and hopefully discover all that you can be.
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  7. #57
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    There are rules to it yes
    And, the benefit is, you can use them on anyone, they're called feedback rules , and they make communication between any number of types easier when observed.
    Heh, it's ironic that you mention feedback rules, because feedback is the very issue I have with Fi. Namely I don't get enough feedback. Personally I loooooove feedback. I'm not sure if anyone else thrives on receiving feedback as much as I do, because I'm pretty clueless without it.

    So an example of what I'm talking about, if I've just come out of a movie and say something like, "I see what message the director was trying to convey here, but I don't think he communicated it effectively. Take this scene where he did this...." Now if an xxFJ type actually loved the movie we just saw, they'd say, "You're so wrong!" And then we'd talk about it until we could both understand each other's viewpoint. With an xxFP they'd often just keep their feelings to themself, but I'd lose points on the secret scorecard in their head. As time goes by I'm not even aware that I'm ever doing anything that bothers them, but I just keep losing points and the scorecard never really goes away. It's because I get so little feedback. How do I get more feedback from Fi?
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  8. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    Heh, it's ironic that you mention feedback rules, because feedback is the very issue I have with Fi. Namely I don't get enough feedback. Personally I loooooove feedback. I'm not sure if anyone else thrives on receiving feedback as much as I do, because I'm pretty clueless without it.
    Yeh, this is something I've had to consciously try to be less crap at. I'm not sure if it is a trait for all Fi types, but I know with ENFPs I go a hell of a lot of unspoken communication, unfinished sentences, etc. Sometimes if I think the message is getting there, or even if I'm feeling lazy, I only give the parts I think the other person needs to get on the same page. It's not like the other parts aren't there to say, Fi just seems to go by importance rather than any logical completeness. So sometimes most important comes first, then if it's not clear a bit more elaboration, then a bit more, etc. There is that ENP drive to achieve as much as possible with as little work as possible.
    Freude, schöner Götterfunken Tochter aus Elysium, Wir betreten feuertrunken, Himmlische, dein Heiligtum! Deine Zauber binden wieder Was die Mode streng geteilt; Alle Menschen werden Brüder, Wo dein sanfter Flügel weilt.

  9. #59
    Uniqueorn William K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    How do I get more feedback from Fi?
    Make sure they understand that you want their point of view on something for your own benefit/use and that you are not going to judge them based on it. And then thank them and tell them you really appreciate their feedback.
    4w5, Fi>Ne>Ti>Si>Ni>Fe>Te>Se, sp > so > sx

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  10. #60
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Yup, remove potential judgement. Most of us value the connection we have with you over some silly topic such as a movie. If you can indicate that you won't shoot a person for having another opinion, that will do a lot already. *points at feedback rules*

    Try listing not only what you thought was bad, but also the good points of the movie, showing that you're not just tearing it down just for the heck of it, but also are willing to make a balanced judgement.

    The thing is..if you are to judge a movie that harshly and completley trash it, I make a mental note, especially if I don't know you that well yet. You're that harsh on a movie already? Makes me wonder how you'll think of me. How you focus on the flaws instead of the positives. Makes me feel uncomfortable to be near you, coz it means that my flaws will always come first in your opinion, and you won't like me. Afterall, it's not like you were able to enjoy the movie either. This is a subconscious process btw, that gets triggered only after observing this behavior, indicating a pattern. I reserve these kinda conclusions for when I'm absolutely sure as I like toi give people the benefit of the doubt.

    As for my reaction to your movie-rant, I personally will automatically play devils advocate, if I feel comfortable with you. You say you hated the movie for this and this and this reason? I'll agree with you on those points but automatically list the things I found really good, in essence trying to redeem the movie for you. Why? Coz I have a need to value everyone and this movie was made by someone who put a lot of effort in this probably. I consider it cheap to tear someone elses work down without presenting your own to be criticized. Therefore I will always want you to show some appreciation for someone at least trying what you didn't even dare to go near.
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