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Thread: Fi 101

  1. #21
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Ok peeps, I see tis thread is already going, and I wanna say that I *will* answer, so try not to clutter it up too much while I'm gone, mkay ?

    It's New Years Party time however, so make it a good one and I'll see ya all in 2010!

    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





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  2. #22
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Aw, C'MON!

    What is love?


    Origin, source of maintenance, nature and character of the object.


    Is it different for different types? Is there a core element that is universal? Does it reside in the person or in the person's expressions or somewhere else, an abstract plane removed from, say, sex, maybe?

    No, really. There's a lot of discussion on this board--A LOT!--about interactions. So... what is love?




    It seemed like a good 101 question, and now I want to know.


    Plus, it's a macro-question, a whole of person thing, and discussing it the functions will come into play somewhere and... something about being human... plus everyone's allowed to get away with idiosyncratic definitions, I suppose, and I guess that'll show something about functions. Or something.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  3. #23
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    My main problem with functions in general is not really the functions themselves, but when people start attaching things every human can do to them. Like empathy, logic, imagination, or being environmentally aware. Reading these "Fi is" and "Te is" and the other threads has me shaking my head at some of the entries, simply because people start going from what these functions ARE to what people that use these functions tend to DO and end up thinking they're the same thing.

    I think Fi is a cognitive process that judges all information it gains using personal, emotional, and value based principles as criteria for right vs wrong. These values are subjectively defined and unique to that individual in the sense that they were personally derived, however this doesn't mean these principles are exclusive to that person, nor Fi itself.
    Well agreed.

    Proteanmix : It's all in how you define empathy I guess. But yes for the most part you are right about Fi I guess.

    Quote Originally Posted by Proteanmix
    but others who are looking for solidarity and that sense of shared experience and emotion find them out of touch, not an oasis of calm and strength. That does not make them particularly relatable or someone you feel you can talk to or depend on because their emotional state is so completely divergent from everyone else's and they don't even see it.
    That might very well be true but that doesn't have to be a bad thing. We can be out of touch in a sense, but that's because we are deeply individualistic. Don't expect solidarity from me. Ask for it if you want it or wait for me to think of you and give it by my own volition. Fi just doesn't think in terms of society. There is no society. That's why FPs can often be considered irresponsible or marginals. It has everything to do with expectations. But we are not bound by the same rules as Fe users so expectation isn't a factor.

    You can negatively frame it as Fi users not being dependable...but at the same time I'm pretty sure you'll find that when the shit hits the fan FPs can be very caring people.


    I'm very unapologetic when it comes to this. I expect the same treatment Ts get. People shouldn't look at the letter F and expect a good samaritan. You can be caring with or without F. Feelings are just as right and wrong as Thoughts. You can't help but to think and you can't help but to feel.

  4. #24
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    I'm very unapologetic when it comes to this. I expect the same treatment Ts get. People shouldn't look at the letter F and expect a good samaritan. You can be caring with or without F. Feelings are just as right and wrong as Thoughts. You can't help but to think and you can't help but to feel.

    Wait, why is T being dragged into this again? Did we do something?

    ...Anyway, I agree with your comments here.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  5. #25
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    Aw, C'MON!
    What is love?
    clutter clutter clutter... Poor Amar.. It's only noon here...we are bored. (Happy new year!)

    I see the potential in myself for two types of love in a relationship.

    one is Te based-It is loyalty, resolution, commitment, support, staying true even when times are rough. Understanding that emo can be very momentary and fading. Loving the person for what they are and accepting all imperfections as part of the package but being willing to challenge them to grow. Enjoying their company good and bad. Fully understanding their faults. It is a partnership. Pragmatic, realistic, accepting, understanding.

    This was how I loved my ISTP.

    The other is Fi based. It is freaky, wobbly, overwhelming and terrifying. Tornadic and amazingly intense buckets of focused emo rays. Incinerating if used on an individual. Blending to become one united thing with that other person. Diluted 100X I use it on the masses.

    I think-based on the definition of love questions in the relationship sections, that Ti and Fe may differ in what love feels like...Just my guess based upon what they have posted there.

    But I bet Fi/Te could combine to form a flavor of love with distinct physiological sensations and interpretations. So maybe Fe/Ti love is another flavor of love.

    I wonder what FeFiTeTi love is like?

  6. #26
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    To everyone who has left me rep comments and replied in thread thank you, I appreciate your input.

    I'm mulling this over in my mind...I admit I didn't really expect Fi users to agree with me!
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  7. #27
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Wait, why is T being dragged into this again? Did we do something?
    Expectations Jennifer...expectations. A T does a nice gesture towards someone and he gets +10 rep points and is concretely credited for doing it. A F does the same nice gesture and people analyze what was behind that gesture and subjectively discredit the F. Unfair!!!Waah.

  8. #28
    Glycerine
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    Do we really need another thread on Fi? I feel like this topic has long beaten the dead horse. All I know is I really like most Fi-doms, IRL and a few on this forum. From everything I have learned about Fi is it's about individuality, personal/self valuations/ moral codes/ what one believes, and it feels emotions in gradients and feels things deeply. To some outsiders, it can come off "very selfish and self-centered" but it can also come off as kind and caring. It's as cool as Fe in my book.

  9. #29
    にゃん runvardh's Avatar
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    Eh, there's a point where even some of us get tired of talking about ourselves... *kitty glare at Amar*
    Dreams are best served manifest and tangible.

    INFP, 6w7, IEI

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  10. #30
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    OK, here's my honest observation. Forgive me if it sounds hostile because that is not my intention.

    When reviewing the "Fi is" thread this is the picture that struck me as most accurate about Fi:



    And to be honest, this pic disturbed me at the same time I felt it to be the most accurate. Those emo pics I was like OK, alright.

    It scared me because this is how out of touch with everyone Fi can be and I hardly see how that's empathetic. And yes, I want Fi users to admit this is something that people often encounter when dealing with Fi! It's not an isolated, unnatural, or rare occurence. My reality does not align with what Fi users are portraying on the forum about how helplessly empathetic they feel.

    I have seen NFPs go into their happy bubble and be completely uncaring or oblivious to everyone else because they feel fine. That is the complete opposite of empathy. But I do see the positives in that because they do seem somewhat impervious to all the stress others feel for their own well-being (which I wish I had a greater ability for), but others who are looking for solidarity and that sense of shared experience and emotion find them out of touch, not an oasis of calm and strength. That does not make them particularly relatable or someone you feel you can talk to or depend on because their emotional state is so completely divergent from everyone else's and they don't even see it.

    This is assessment is from my professional experience in working with NFPs in leadership positions, colleagues and past personal experience. I work in a very feeler-dominated organization because of the nature of the work. If my immediate work environment was more empathetic I'd be a much happier employee. I'm in the process of moving past this by adjusting my expectations to lessen my own personal disappointment.

    The reason why I find this offensive is because in my professional life the people who do this are grown women (50+) and for the most part I would say are what you would call well-adjusted and "nice" people. I'm not going to give the easy out of saying they're immature or haven't learned how to use their Fi. This is not aberrant behavior from NFPs. I'm not saying it's the norm, but it's not unusual or something like Halley's Comet that passes by the earth every 75 years. It is quite typical in the same way that Fe can often be overbearing, coercive, and unthinkingly normative.

    I wish people would stop claiming one set of traits (the positive) are more likely than the other. Fi users (or maybe I should confine this to NFPs) are just as likely to be oblivious to everyone (and in their own happy bubble as that picture suggests) as they are helplessly empathetic towards everyone. To claim otherwise is disingenuous and untruthful.
    Is this ^ Fe being directive?

    I said elsewhere that I know how Te is directive, it gets combined with Fi to create a consciousness of the world out there in which things running counter to Te conclusions are negatively evaluated--upsetting, stupid, tiresome, wasteful, boring, irritating, hurtful, dangerous, etc--and thus motivated, I seek to follow the Te, and (presumably only where appropriate) urge others to do so too. That seems to account for the reputation of most TJs.

    Fe does the same thing, but more immediately? Perhaps structured by Ti checks and balances? (Ti makes it a personal decision, Fe alone would be impersonal, though evaluated, judgment?)


    ******


    I saw a quote somewhere:

    "Love is friendship set on fire."
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

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