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  1. #61
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    I've read many of the same threads you have, and given the significant numerical advantage Fi users seem to have on the site, that there is this pervasive, all-enveloping bias throughout the site seems a little strange to me.
    This site is NT dominated. The positive comments come mostly from the abundant NFPs themselves, and a few NFJs.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

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  2. #62
    Senior Member The Outsider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    I'd rather not. I'm not a fan of burning bridges.
    Bugger. Here I was hoping the dancing would stop, and we could get down to the point.

  3. #63
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    This site is NT dominated. The positive comments come mostly from the abundant NFPs themselves, and a few NFJs.
    I disagree. I'd say that among our most prolific users, ENFP is probably the #1 or #2 claimed type.

  4. #64
    Geolectric teslashock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Outsider View Post
    Bugger. Here I was hoping the dancing would stop, and we could get down to the point.
    Well, some of us are. Somebody should create a thread for NFPs and NTPs to argue about Fi and Ti. That way we can be more productive and on task in threads like this one.

  5. #65
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    It's not just this thread, but the general comments made in many threads, an example of one stated...and you haven't seen the PMs, rep comments, etc that I've received from proteanmix making bizarre accusations. All over a cognitive function.
    Orange, no joke, I don't take kindly to people making accusations about me.

    I have left you a total of FIVE comments in all the time you've been on this forum. Three of them occured in 2009 and two within the last weeks as specific responses to something you've said in thread and here they are:
    OA, no offense but you just got through railing against tesla's Fi thread but then you tend to make posts like these...
    i think i'm going to point it out to you whenever you do it..."act the martyr to get sympathy" why that?? no one else gets the fingerwagging
    Those are the two comments I've left you within the last two weeks. You sent me a PM in response to the first comment, I have never sent you any PMs.

    If you'd like to know what pisses me off it's this: making insinuations against me. Quit it.

    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    I've read many of the same threads you have, and given the significant numerical advantage Fi users seem to have on the site, that there is this pervasive, all-enveloping bias throughout the site seems a little strange to me.
    Besides INTP, INFP is the most numerous type on the forum. There is hardly an anti-Fi bias. Just really really sensitive people.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
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  6. #66
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Outsider View Post
    Bugger. Here I was hoping the dancing would stop, and we could get down to the point.
    Unfortunately, it seems like the dancing IS the point.

  7. #67
    morose bourgeoisie
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Outsider View Post
    Bugger. Here I was hoping the dancing would stop, and we could get down to the point.
    Please. Do.

  8. #68
    Geolectric teslashock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    Besides INTP, INFP is the most numerous type on the forum. There is hardly an anti-Fi bias. Just really really sensitive people.
    Quantifiable evidence from a respectable mod FTW!!

  9. #69
    Senior Member The Outsider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Unfortunately, it seems like the dancing IS the point.
    Haha.

    As long as it's fun to watch I suppose.

  10. #70
    Senior Member Scott N Denver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    Yes that claim has been made several times. I just quoted a person who made the claim. I don't think to myself hmmm, this person is tightwad jerkface with a small asshole...they must be ESTJ! I don't type by character traits. My dispute in this thread is the nature of the character traits people ascribe to types NOT patterns of behavior. Do you see what I'm saying?



    Do you want me to slather some happy sauce on you or something? You're already claiming the apex of emotional intelligence: empathy. Any student of psychology or casual self-help book puts empathy at the top of the emotional food chain and evidently NFPs are naturally predisposed towards that than any other type. I can't do anything better than that! You have the golden ticket!
    I just reread like 10-20 pages of Lenore thomsons's book hoping that I could quote her on Fi-doms and being predisposed or naturally adept at empathy.
    Unfortunately, she kept using other semi-similar words so I can't quote her on that one, and people could debate any word-transference I pick to get from what she says to empathy.

    I think she talks somewhere about Fi dom's naturally trying to see things "from other people's shoes/viewpoints" as in "IFP's are most likely to try and see something from someone else's viewpoint or to walk a mile in someone else's shoes". I'll keep looking, maybe its in the INFP section instead of the IFP section.

    I'm not sure it innately qualifies as "empathy", but I think the best answer I can try to give is to say this: Fi seeks universal values, and given their universal nature they cut through or ignore societies conventions and expectations [I can find quotes for that part]. To me, I consider this "more directly interacting with a person and their internal experience" as opposed to "social bartering" or "social currency", and to someone on the outside looking at this situation they might more likely describe such a Fi-approach as "empathy"


    Alright, forget Thomson, lets go with Myers-Briggs herself in Gifts Differing. Page 79 contrasts Fe and Fi. Its long and I don't want to quote it all, but personally I'd definitely attribute "empathy" to Fi over Fe based upon the descriptions on this page. Some snippets:

    Fe: determined chiefly by the objective factor and serves to make the individual feel correctly, that is conventionally, under all circumstances

    Fi: is determined by the subjective factor and serves as a guide to emotional acceptance or rejection of various aspects of life

    my thought: I'm not sure I fully agree here, but its what she wrote. "empathy" clearly belongs to Fi here [accept what is vs making someone feel conventionally/correctly


    Fe: adapts the individual to the objective situation [hello, isnt this the opposite of empathy???]

    Fi:adapts the objective situation to the individual

    Fe: depends wholly on upon the ideals, conventions and customs of the environment

    Fi: depends upon abstract feeling-ideals...

    my thought: Fi again for "empathy" unless one really trusts "conventions"

    Fe: finds soundness and value in the collective ideals of the community, which are usually accepted without question

    Fi: finds soundness and value inside from [personal factors]

    my thought: Fi again, unless one accepts the communities expectations over one's own [as in "society says you should be feeling emotion X since you are in situation Y"]

    Fe: has as its goal the formation and maintenance of easy and harmonious emotional relationships with others

    Fi: has as its goal the fostering and development of an intense inner emotional life

    Fe: has a tendency to suppress the personal standpoint entirely...

    ^ thats like the antithesis of empathy there right???

    I'm not saying I fully agree with her descriptions of Fi and Fe, though I can see where each description comes from, and I think her Fe is far more ESFJ-ish than ENFJ-ish, but given the above descriptions from Briggs-Myers
    its seems pretty clear to me that "empathy" is far more naturally aligned with a Fi perspective than a Fe one. IN particular, I feel like Briggs-Myers is saying "Fe tells you how you should act/feel/behave/do/be based upon the external social conventions and expectations of society", a view that I disagree with and prefer Thomson's descriptions on.

    Ok, well I don't know if you agree with the above or what its getting at, but can you see how from what Briggs-Myers wrote about Fi and Fe that Fi seems more naturally empathetic? At best from the above descriptions [which again I don't agree with], the best Fe would seem to be able to do is say "I see that you fell this way, but societies social interaction expectations dictate that I will treat you some other way."

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