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  1. #51
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    This is what I asked before...why do NFPs want to be seen as some kind of great empaths?
    Oh, IDK, maybe we like to think we have some positive qualities? God forbid! How pretentious of us!

    But I'll play along if you all want to claim that Fi is predisposed to greater empathy.
    No one has said greater empathy. That is your own wording.

    Would (N)FPs be willing to claim that aspect of Fi without whitewashing it into something positive? Would (N)FPs be willing to claim this as being inherent to Fi without caveats coming in and out the ying yang of those who do this being atypical or dysfunctional in some way? Because there's a light and dark to everything and if we can come up with valid negative traits to being empathetic would you all own up to those as well?
    Of course every type has a downside, often directly connected to their strengths. It has been pointed out that Fi can be self-absorbed, ignores group standards, etc. Empathy can definitely be twisted if you excuse negative feeling/actions simply because you can understand it & see how a person got to that point.

    However, why only focus on the negatives & tear down any positives of Fi? The comments on Fi, especially NFP's usage of it, from other people on this board is overwhelmingly negative. Check out the recent Fi thread in the bonfire - aside from Fi user comments, it's negative. I realize a lot of it is flippant jokes, but it's a prime example of anti-Fi bias on this board.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  2. #52
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    Do you want me to slather some happy sauce on you or something? You're already claiming the apex of emotional intelligence: empathy. Any student of psychology or casual self-help book puts empathy at the top of the emotional food chain and evidently NFPs are naturally predisposed towards that than any other type. I can't do anything better than that! You have the golden ticket!
    Exactly - you cannot do it.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  3. #53
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    Exactly - you cannot do it.
    OK.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  4. #54
    Geolectric teslashock's Avatar
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  5. #55
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    However, why only focus on the negatives & tear down any positives of Fi? The comments on Fi, especially NFP's usage of it, from other people on this board is overwhelmingly negative. Check out the recent Fi thread in the bonfire - aside from Fi user comments, it's negative. I realize a lot of it is flippant jokes, but it's a prime example of anti-Fi bias on this board.
    You really haven't heard us speak negatively of Fi. My lord, we've been dancing around it, since it really is a touchy subject.

  6. #56
    Vaguely Precise Seymour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by teslashock View Post
    Sure, something can be inherent without exclusively laying a claim. I don't think empathy is inherent in Fi though. I don't think Fi is a function defined by empathy; most Fi users simply care about developing their empathetic skills.

    I wasn't trying to make the argument that says "I see empathy in non-Fi users, so empathy cannot be inherent in Fi." Obviously B does not logically follow A in that case, but I can see how my post might have had that vibe. It was more of just a rant than anything else, not a linear way of reasoning through an argument. Sorry if that's how it came across though.
    This will sound weird to you, no doubt (sounds weird to me as an adult), but as a kid I very much felt like I was the victim of uncontrolled empathy. Put me next to someone depressed, and I would feel depressed. Put me next to someone happy, and I would feel happy. I'm certain it wasn't psychic, but I was picking up on minor cues and it wasn't something I could turn off. Walking through a crowd by myself was like riding an emotional roller coaster: happy, sad, angry, depressed, deadened, in-love... all in the space of seconds as I looked at various people. All the changes could make me nauseous if I wasn't careful. If I had someone with me it was easier, because they would function as an emotional anchor for my out-of-control empathy.

    Now, I'm not sure other kids have that same experience but I very much felt like I was at the mercy of my empathy. Since then it's faded a great deal, and now I have to try to more consciously engage when I want to empathize with someone. I don't know if my experience was weird for an INFP kid, but it certainly wasn't something I was consciously developing at the age of 7.

    When I read about "mirror neurons" now, and how the autistic (and aspies) may have too many or two few, it makes me wonder (not that I fall into either group). I could see that Fi (and Fe) could be associated with more of that kind of processing. Animals are said to have the same ability, I doubt they consciously choose to develop it, either. I think responsible Fi users choose to refine it and make sure it's accurate before reacting to what they pick up, though.

  7. #57
    Senior Member The Outsider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    You really haven't heard us speak negatively of Fi.
    Please do.

  8. #58
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    You really haven't heard us speak negatively of Fi. My lord, we've been dancing around it, since it really is a touchy subject.
    It's not just this thread, but the general comments made in many threads, an example of one stated...and you haven't seen the PMs, rep comments, etc that I've received from proteanmix making bizarre accusations. All over a cognitive function.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  9. #59
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Outsider View Post
    Please do.
    I'd rather not. I'm not a fan of burning bridges.

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    It's not just this thread, but the general comments made in many threads, an example of one stated...and you haven't seen the PMs, rep comments, etc that I've received from proteanmix making bizarre accusations. All over a cognitive function.
    I've read many of the same threads you have, and given the significant numerical advantage Fi users seem to have on the site, that there is this pervasive, all-enveloping bias throughout the site seems a little strange to me.

  10. #60
    Geolectric teslashock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seymour View Post
    This will sound weird to you, no doubt (sounds weird to me as an adult), but as a kid I very much felt like I was the victim of uncontrolled empathy. Put me next to someone depressed, and I would feel depressed. Put me next to someone happy, and I would feel happy. I'm certain it wasn't psychic, but I was picking up on minor cues and it wasn't something I could turn off. Walking through a crowd by myself was like riding an emotional roller coaster: happy, sad, angry, depressed, deadened, in-love... all in the space of seconds as I looked at various people. All the changes could make me nauseous if I wasn't careful. If I had someone with me it was easier, because they would function as an emotional anchor for my out-of-control empathy.

    Now, I'm not sure other kids have that same experience but I very much felt like I was at the mercy of my empathy. Since then it's faded a great deal, and now I have to try to more consciously engage when I want to empathize with someone. I don't know if my experience was weird for an INFP kid, but it certainly wasn't something I was consciously developing at the age of 7.

    When I read about "mirror neurons" now, and how the autistic (and aspies) may have too many or two few, it makes me wonder (not that I fall into either group). I could see that Fi (and Fe) could be associated with more of that kind of processing. Animals are said to have the same ability, I doubt they consciously choose to develop it, either. I think responsible Fi users choose to refine it and make sure it's accurate before reacting to what they pick up, though.
    (wait, j/k j/k!!)

    I have a very close INFP friend that says very similiar things about herself. She claims that she can't watch graphic, intense movies without taking on the emotions of the movie herself. It's like there's no barrier, and it's quite interesting.

    Perhaps you guys are very inclined towards empathy, but I still think it's an acquired skill, and nobody can be naturally good at empathizing. You have to ask questions from your outer world, create some sort of emotional database for referencing, and come across an array of different people before you can accurately empathize. Until you do that, the feelings that you believe you are taking in are just arbitrary hunches with nothing to back them except your own gut. I think this might be why Fi users come off as presumptuous some times, honestly. They don't ask the questions that they should ask in order to enhance their empathetic skills. I simply refuse to believe that Fi users have an innate ability to understand the emotions of others. That sounds almost supernatural. I believe that Fi users are inherently sensitive and generally place a lot of value in emotions, so they take pride in being empathetic, even when their empathy is erroneous.

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