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  1. #21
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    I posted in this thread to discuss function theory, and inevitably the INFPs invent a bunch of nonsensical emotional back story and then blame me after they're the ones who've dragged personal baggage into it.

    It really gets old, guys. My first post here had lots of legitimate, pertinent, directly on-topic content that some of you could have learned from, which you all chose to completely ignore in favor of moaning about what an asshole I am. Believe it or not, I actually know a good bit about this topic, regardless of what you think about my emotions.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Actually, rereading SW's first post, it was absolutely T-style neutral.
    Tone seems determined by listener as well as by speaker.
    That's why I prefer we go back to topic, thanks.
    I really appreciate you pointing this out. Please take note, INFPs.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  2. #22
    man-made neptunesnet's Avatar
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    The thread topic is "Fe blindness; Fi shortsightedness" ... not "Why does SW sound grumpy all the time and thus probably dislike Fi?"
    Fine.



    I find it odd, though, that even though he has a history of this sort of behavior it's still written off/condoned.
    But whatever. I don't care enough.

    *erases last five minutes from brain*


    Quote Originally Posted by Seymour View Post
    Since I grew up in the South (which is more extraverted and Fe-based, socially) moving to the Northeast was kind of a shock. On the one hand, people here are less friendly and outgoing, but conversely when they seem friendly and interested it's usually because they actually are.
    I agree.

    I'm a southern and many of the customs seem to be Fe-based. There is a lot of importance on what is socially appropriate. On one hand, I really like the fact that I can go out in public and be greeted kindly by complete strangers. However, I also like the fact that whenever I visit family up north that usually when I'm greeted it's, like you said, because the people are genuinely interested in me.

    Fe and Fi both have their pros and cons. It really just depends.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Scott N Denver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skyward View Post
    There's a description of Fe I have read that is basically that Fe is sensitive to 'social currency' and can work with it well. Social currency is something to the effect of, when you greet someone you have given a certain amount of social currency and the other person should respond in kind, and depending on who the person is, they may respond differently, believing that they indeed HAVE payed in kind, even though you dont see it that way. Sort of understanding others by how they 'spend their money.'

    I hope that made sense.
    Social currency, a very good explanation or description of Fe. Fwiw, I was following Lenore Thomson's description, but 100% concur with a "social currency" explanation


    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I always see Fi as being concerned with individuals. If people have internal peace, then they will exude that feeling and it will color their interactions and motives, resulting in more external harmony, and the world will be closer to the ideal.

    I think Fi can seem self-absorbed to Fe because it's so concerned with its individual self and authenticity, and it can ignore group standards, but that concern is extended to other individuals in many situations (often why we root for the underdog, the outcast, the misunderstood). In that sense, yes, we are "short-sighted", because we cannot skip past the internal feeling - it must be dealt with first before we can step outside ourselves and gain perspective.

    I see Fe as being concerned with group harmony. If people get along and things run smoothly between them, then that will affect how they feel inside for the better, creating internal peace that further supports external peace, and the world will be closer to the ideal.

    I think Fe can start with promoting the peace externally before it is felt internally, and that seems to "fake" to Fi - Fe can be "fake it until it's real" from my Fi perspective. In that sense, yes, they are "blind", because they cannot see the trees for the forest - individual feelings can get lost while promoting group needs, including the Fe's own personal feelings/needs.

    So I see Fe and Fi as having similar goals, but working from opposite ends. I think in best situation, they are extremely complementary, but it requires an ability to understand that the other is coming from a different direction, and hey, you gotta meet each other in the middle. It's something like a language barrier sometimes - things can get lost in translation, but if it's overcome, then a lot of good can be accomplished.

    * This is all generalizing to express my viewpoint, because I do realize that no one is entirely one way or the other. I'm also referring to Fi and Fe primarily in NFs, because I think SF motivations are less "ideal oriented" - they seem more about practical and immediate results for harmonious feelings/relationships. From that perspective, NFs can seem blind and SFs can seem short-sighted, but for different reasons.
    Another good post from OA

    I have to be careful or else my intended-to-be-short posts don't actually stay short.

  4. #24
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Actually I think this thread yielded a relevant and educational example of Fe vs. Fi:

    Fe is much better at gauging how other people feel and responding appropriately. The downside comes when Fe users neglect how people do feel and start focusing on how the Fe user thinks they should feel. Fe can become blind to the needs of others when it gets too caught up in critiquing their fulfillment of perceived social obligations.

    Fi is much better at getting in touch with one's personal feelings, but the downside occurs when the Fi user starts projecting these feelings and motivations onto others (generally due to poor understanding of what actually motivates others.)

    I understand that if Fi is your dominant function, it's hard not to see everything in terms of personal emotional values, but that's the very definition of "Fi short-sightedness", now isn't it?

    (Here you guys have a neutral third-party, and a moderator no less, pointing out an obvious perceptual bias in your interpretations of my posts...and STILL you refuse to listen. I would urge you to step outside of your perceptual bubble for a moment and try to consider that you may, in fact, overestimate the emotional content of the motivations of others at times. This doesn't make you bad people, but in the interest of learning about other perspectives and growing into more balanced people, it's certainly something you may want to consider!)
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  5. #25
    Geolectric teslashock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post

    (Here you guys have a neutral third-party, and a moderator no less, pointing out an obvious perceptual bias in your interpretations of my posts...and STILL you refuse to listen. I would urge you to step outside of your perceptual bubble for a moment and try to consider that you may, in fact, overestimate the emotional content of the motivations of others at times. This doesn't make you bad people, but in the interest of learning about other perspectives and growing into more balanced people, it's certainly something you may want to consider!)
    Oh snap, guys! He put an exclamation point at the end of that last sentence. He's really pissed now. Better make haste and run away to another thread before this gets any more out of control.

  6. #26
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    Sim's first post was clearly NOT Fi bashing.

    Carry on.

  7. #27
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    Sim's first post was clearly NOT Fi bashing.

    Carry on.
    See? For the love of God, even another NFP agrees with me. (Thanks marm, btw.)

    At some point you guys are going to have to acknowledge that Fi is not always giving you reliable information about the emotional states of others. It's very good for assessing your own feelings, but it's still an introverted function; meaning, it doesn't pick up external world information. You'll have to use Ne/Se for that.


    Quote Originally Posted by teslashock View Post
    Oh snap, guys! He put an exclamation point at the end of that last sentence. He's really pissed now. Better make haste and run away to another thread before this gets any more out of control.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  8. #28
    Senior Member Scott N Denver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Actually I think this thread yielded a relevant and educational example of Fe vs. Fi:

    Fe is much better at gauging how other people feel and responding appropriately. The downside comes when Fe users neglect how people do feel and start focusing on how the Fe user thinks they should feel. Fe can become blind to the needs of others when it gets too caught up in critiquing their fulfillment of perceived social obligations.

    Fi is much better at getting in touch with one's personal feelings, but the downside occurs when the Fi user starts projecting these feelings and motivations onto others (generally due to poor understanding of what actually motivates others.)

    I understand that if Fi is your dominant function, it's hard not to see everything in terms of personal emotional values, but that's the very definition of "Fi short-sightedness", now isn't it?

    (Here you guys have a neutral third-party, and a moderator no less, pointing out an obvious perceptual bias in your interpretations of my posts...and STILL you refuse to listen. I would urge you to step outside of your perceptual bubble for a moment and try to consider that you may, in fact, overestimate the emotional content of the motivations of others at times. This doesn't make you bad people, but in the interest of learning about other perspectives and growing into more balanced people, it's certainly something you may want to consider!)

    I generally concur with the above


    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    Sim's first post was clearly NOT Fi bashing.

    Carry on.
    Concurring again in this instance

  9. #29
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Let the record show that I appreciate Scott and Seymour for their acknowledgement of the validity of my ideas here.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  10. #30
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    I can't agree that Fi "projects". I just don't project or pretend to I know what other people are feeling and I've never met a Fi-dom who does. I don't think that is a Fi inherent trait, and I will continue to reject that assertion. It is in complete opposition to what empathy actually is, which is understanding other's expression of their feelings, even if foreign to your experience or if "wrong". You're not really empathizing if you only consider how you personally would feel.

    Taking things personally is not the same as projecting. One has to do with your own feelings, the other has to do with the feelings of others.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

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