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  1. #11
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Dejected idealism is ugly. It's something like, "The world is horrible. There is no hope. Destroy it for its own good!". Somehow, what is evil becomes a solution, or a moral retribution.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  2. #12
    Lungs & Lips Locked Unkindloving's Avatar
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    As long as i exist there will be heaps of heartlessness and evil in the NF realm!.

    I'm not sure about others, but if i throw out positives or negatives is completely dependent on who it is toward and what they mean to me/their level of respect for me. Experiences have turned me more realistic and cynical over the years as there isn't a good way to be nurturing/inspiring/compassionate to everyone without suffering damage along the way.

    I laugh when people fall. I love twisted, sick humor. I think other people can feed the starving Ethiopians, but i personally don't give a damn. I'll verbally go for the jugular of someone who disrespects me.
    In the same token, if i care about someone then they are a top priority. I would do anything for my friends, encourage them in any way. I'll console and help if they need it. I'll love them with my whole heart and accept them.
    Basically, it's like i'm terribly difficult for people to accept, but the ones that do accept me will reap the benefits i have to offer.

  3. #13
    Retired Member Wonkavision's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unkindloving View Post
    As long as i exist there will be heaps of heartlessness and evil in the NF realm!.

    I'm not sure about others, but if i throw out positives or negatives is completely dependent on who it is toward and what they mean to me/their level of respect for me. Experiences have turned me more realistic and cynical over the years as there isn't a good way to be nurturing/inspiring/compassionate to everyone without suffering damage along the way.

    I laugh when people fall. I love twisted, sick humor. I think other people can feed the starving Ethiopians, but i personally don't give a damn. I'll verbally go for the jugular of someone who disrespects me.
    In the same token, if i care about someone then they are a top priority. I would do anything for my friends, encourage them in any way. I'll console and help if they need it. I'll love them with my whole heart and accept them.
    Basically, it's like i'm terribly difficult for people to accept, but the ones that do accept me will reap the benefits i have to offer.
    You took the words right out of my mouth.
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  4. #14
    /X\(:: :: )/X\ BlueSprout's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unkindloving View Post
    As long as i exist there will be heaps of heartlessness and evil in the NF realm!.

    I'm not sure about others, but if i throw out positives or negatives is completely dependent on who it is toward and what they mean to me/their level of respect for me. Experiences have turned me more realistic and cynical over the years as there isn't a good way to be nurturing/inspiring/compassionate to everyone without suffering damage along the way.

    I laugh when people fall. I love twisted, sick humor. I think other people can feed the starving Ethiopians, but i personally don't give a damn. I'll verbally go for the jugular of someone who disrespects me.
    In the same token, if i care about someone then they are a top priority. I would do anything for my friends, encourage them in any way. I'll console and help if they need it. I'll love them with my whole heart and accept them.
    Basically, it's like i'm terribly difficult for people to accept, but the ones that do accept me will reap the benefits i have to offer.
    This is evil and heartless? You may not be a saint, but I hardly think you qualify based on this description. Many people don't care too much about the suffering of mankind/total strangers in general but have perfectly functional and healthy relationships with the people close to them. If that was evil and heartless, hardly anyone I know would qualify as a decent human being.
    Type: INFP Enneagram: 4
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    °cataplum!

  5. #15
    Senior Member Ace_'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sciski View Post
    Only if they believe that being a heartless bastard = bad. If their world view = "It's kind to be cruel in a tough world", you can get a pretty hard-lining NF. I think to the NF though, their intentions must be congruent with their own beliefs, even if the beliefs themselves are deluded (refer to the SH quote).
    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    All that emotional intensity can go toward negative emotions almost as easily as it can go toward positive ones and we can find a way to justify it because we have flexible minds like that.
    Yeah but empathy is hard-wired into the brain. It's not like you decide you want to be an NF. You are born an NF. Read this article: Empathy is hard-wired into the mind, study finds - Los Angeles Times

    The NFs I've known said that they feel huge discomfort when punishing someone or when someone is being embarrassed or feeling bad. They are much more apt at simulating the pain of others on their own flesh than thinkers.

    Every NF I've ever met has had a very developed capacity for sympathy and was hypersensitive to people's feelings and needs. Their brains are just genetically predisposed to do that. If you don't think of people's feelings first, then try doing the mbti test again, and this time be sincere when answering questions because you're probably a thinker under a mask of a feeler.

    So my point is that it's genetically hard wired into the brain. They can choose to believe that being a bastard is good but when they start doing it in practice it's going to hurt them.

  6. #16
    Member lua's Avatar
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    I have proof that it's possible in the form of an ENFP 15-year-old girl (my baby sister).

  7. #17
    Lungs & Lips Locked Unkindloving's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wonkavision View Post
    You took the words right out of my mouth.
    Glad.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jane View Post
    This is evil and heartless? You may not be a saint, but I hardly think you qualify based on this description. Many people don't care too much about the suffering of mankind/total strangers in general but have perfectly functional and healthy relationships with the people close to them. If that was evil and heartless, hardly anyone I know would qualify as a decent human being.
    There's a lot more, but i'm sure it would be a long and detailed list and i didn't want to sound too horrible . Though I have also been friends with the sort of people who viewed that tidbit of a description as more than enough to be considered heartless and evil. Needless to say i don't befriend those people much anymore!

  8. #18
    Charting a course
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    Can NFs be ruthless, cruel or evil?

    Ruthless? Yep, in a heartbeat if it's required.

    Cruel? Only in extreme circumstances.

    Evil? Not deliberately. I'm not deluded enough to believe my way is the only, correct, way of doing something. Not since I was 12 years old, anyway.

  9. #19
    Senior Member HollyGolightly's Avatar
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    NFs can be ruthless and cruel. A fellow INFJ almost ruined my life...
    And some can even be evil. I know this from experience and yes, the people in question were typed correctly. They were just unhealthy xNFxs.
    No two people of the same type are the same. You get good and bad in every type..so NFs can be evil, but so can SJs, SPs and NTs.

    I personally think NF cruelty can be the most damaging. It's unexpected, most NFs make you feel safe and secure. They make you feel that you can trust that they wouldn't hurt you because they usually come across as very empathetic. Then bam...
    "Dad I can't feel my legs."

    "That's because you don't have any arms."

  10. #20
    Senior Member sciski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ace_ View Post
    The NFs I've known said that they feel huge discomfort when punishing someone or when someone is being embarrassed or feeling bad. They are much more apt at simulating the pain of others on their own flesh than thinkers.
    You know very soft, sweet NFs.

    So my point is that it's genetically hard wired into the brain. They can choose to believe that being a bastard is good but when they start doing it in practice it's going to hurt them.
    Yes, but if the hurt caused is greatly outweighed by all the positives that result from punishment, then I'm pretty sure some NFs can deal with it. Some can't... you appear to know the ones that can't. Lucky you.

    Yeah but empathy is hard-wired into the brain. It's not like you decide you want to be an NF. You are born an NF. Read this article: Empathy is hard-wired into the mind, study finds - Los Angeles Times
    Is it possible for you to turn off or ignore your logical analysis sometimes? If it is, then it's possible for NFs to turn off or ignore their empathy when it suits them.

    Hard-wiring is a bit of a moot point. It may be a fact that the NF will end up feeling guilty over the results of their actions, but there are ways to overcome this guilt--by justifying it (it was for the greater good!), removing themselves from the consequences of their actions (what I don't see, I don't know about), etc.

    It's an elaborate coping mechanism, and yes, it does derive from a jilted sense of empathy. But that empathy does not stop an NF from committing cruel acts--it merely makes the NF suffer consequences if they haven't taken steps to cope with the consequences.

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