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  1. #41

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    I woke up with an answer this morning, because realised I have a similar situation with an INFJ. It has little to do with revenge, or at least in my case. It is about prioritisation. J types tend to work to lists, schedules, etc. I don't. I adapt my time on the fly and find the time. The first instinct when scheduled out, no matter how politely it is explained, is that I come after the 20 million other things she has to do in the next three weeks. I understand some of them might be important, but the fact there is zero seconds for me, when I have seen her once since March, and many for others, instantly shows where things stand. She isn't exactly jumping for joy with interest. It is more of a cold love with little fire in it. When those three weeks end, I am faced with a decision: Do I find time amongst my then busy schedule for her? The first question is why? What potential does it hold? Is it really going anywhere or is it pretty static and just going to stay in some nicely controlled balance? Will I be a love interest or even just a friend, or am I a mere acquaintance who will never find mutual territory or understanding? This takes longer term patterns to get to this point, and you have obviously made more effort to understand the other person than in my case. But a good thing to remember is we don't have set lists or schedules. So there aren't always things we have to do at certain times, and there are also no defined breaks. You can play hard to get, but you never want to drop priority enough that you go off the radar. I adapt and always have the time/resources when I give priority to a person because I care. If I don't give the priority, there is always a more interesting option and I never have the time. I keep in touch, but it is little more than having no reason not to. You can't hate a person for not having time, or wish vengeance upon them, just realise that it means you are very unlikely to be compatible, because you will always feel like the one who is adapting, and it will never feel mutual.

    p.s. This is a first instinct, it doesn't reflect the more processed version. The point is he might not get the more processed version of the situation. If he doesn't know he is a P and you are a J and how that all works, it will seem like it is always on your terms. ENFPs don't like others to call the shots for them, they like mutual decisions. We leave it open to find best case for all, not to be lazy and let someone else call it for us. I don't know about INTJs, but maybe there can be an urge in these situations to make a call, because it feels uncomfortable being left open. The call he wants to hear is a description of where you stand and enough information for you both to make a mutual decision. If that is laced with any other emotion such as annoyance with him, he will probably read that too, as well as the words.

    This isn't a high maintenance thing, like I always understand that people want to do other things rather than see me all the time, I want to do other things rather than see them, but if it becomes a clear pattern and shows little potential in the future, it becomes a problem. I'm not saying you schedule him out either, just that I've known this dynamic with Ni doms, and how it can cause this reaction in an ENFP who doesn't understand it.
    Freude, schöner Götterfunken Tochter aus Elysium, Wir betreten feuertrunken, Himmlische, dein Heiligtum! Deine Zauber binden wieder Was die Mode streng geteilt; Alle Menschen werden Brüder, Wo dein sanfter Flügel weilt.

  2. #42

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    Simplified version of the above:

    ENFPs prioritise by interest and importance. Any schedule set for an ENFP attempts to adapt itself in this way. If he does not understand the clear difference between your style and his own, he may apply this loosely to your choices. The conclusion he will draw from this is that you are disinterested in him or place him down the list of priorities. If he believes this is the case, he might try to make up for it (if he thinks it is justified and he caused it), or he might see little potential in the relationship and drop its priority.

    The question,

    "do I stay and see the girl I like who seems to have time for me and is very interested"

    is very different to the question,

    "do I stay and hang out with the girl who finds other things more important and probably isn't interested anyway."


    I'd say your biggest decision is do you really like him and want him as he is? Because that is part of who he is. If the answer is "yes", go for it, adapt, etc. Do a bit of the romantic rather than the problem solving. Once an ENFP feels close and trusts they can be insanely adaptable and resourceful. If the answer is "no", you are chasing something you don't really want, or you don't want unless you can change it. He will probably be aware of this and make the obvious choice. It is a bad choice for you also if this is the case, because he will adapt to make interaction easier, probably become more mature, but long term it is unlikely he will change who he is.
    Freude, schöner Götterfunken Tochter aus Elysium, Wir betreten feuertrunken, Himmlische, dein Heiligtum! Deine Zauber binden wieder Was die Mode streng geteilt; Alle Menschen werden Brüder, Wo dein sanfter Flügel weilt.

  3. #43
    Senior Member thescientist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneWithSoul View Post
    It seems I'm most vindictive when I'm trying to get back at people I really care about. I have no idea why I do it, I guess I'm secretly craving their attention and trying to make them feel guilty..actually, I'm sure that's what it is :P


    I noticed you were Enneagram 7. Im pretty sure this ENFP is also a 7. Perhaps there is some correlation there.

    Should one give in to the ENFP's attention craving ways?
    Does it frustrate you if they dont? Or does it make you feel insecure about whether the other person likes you?

    How does it make you feel when the other person doesn't react at all --> to your 'punishment' or vindictive behavior?

  4. #44
    Senior Member thescientist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noigmn View Post
    The question,

    "do I stay and see the girl I like who seems to have time for me and is very interested"

    is very different to the question,

    "do I stay and hang out with the girl who finds other things more important and probably isn't interested anyway."
    I dont think it's a prioritization issue in his case.

    Me showing up at the gym was more than enough of a sign that I wanted to see him and be in his company. Trust me. He even made a funny face and looked at his watch smiling as in, "oh what a coincidence". But in the end he knew he was going to 'get back at me'. Like OneWithSoul said...somehow to make me feel bad or guilty.

    I think next time I will just be clear and directly invite him for a swim that way there are no guessing games. If he doesn't accept, oh well.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by thescientist View Post
    Should one give in to the ENFP's attention craving ways?
    Does it frustrate you if they dont? Or does it make you feel insecure about whether the other person likes you?
    If you like this guy, yes, you should give him some attention. Yes, it's going to frustrate him if he likes you - maybe even hurt him. Just don't give him over-much attention. There's a difference between giving an ENFP the affection and attention we truly need, and enabling narcissistic attention-whoring.

    How does it make you feel when the other person doesn't react at all --> to your 'punishment' or vindictive behavior?
    Oh. My. God. It makes me crazy.

    Again, there should be a balance. Totally ignoring him is going to make things worse, but maybe hesitating to react is okay.

  6. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by thescientist View Post
    I dont think it's a prioritization issue in his case.

    Me showing up at the gym was more than enough of a sign that I wanted to see him and be in his company. Trust me. He even made a funny face and looked at his watch smiling as in, "oh what a coincidence". But in the end he knew he was going to 'get back at me'. Like OneWithSoul said...somehow to make me feel bad or guilty.

    I think next time I will just be clear and directly invite him for a swim that way there are no guessing games. If he doesn't accept, oh well.
    Cool, I thought I'd check it. I think you mentioned you make a lot of effort earlier, I should've remembered.

    Directness is good with ENFPs, though being a bit playful works too.
    Freude, schöner Götterfunken Tochter aus Elysium, Wir betreten feuertrunken, Himmlische, dein Heiligtum! Deine Zauber binden wieder Was die Mode streng geteilt; Alle Menschen werden Brüder, Wo dein sanfter Flügel weilt.

  7. #47
    Senior Member Nonsensical's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thescientist View Post


    I noticed you were Enneagram 7. Im pretty sure this ENFP is also a 7. Perhaps there is some correlation there.

    Should one give in to the ENFP's attention craving ways?
    Does it frustrate you if they dont? Or does it make you feel insecure about whether the other person likes you?

    How does it make you feel when the other person doesn't react at all --> to your 'punishment' or vindictive behavior?
    Haha, yes. It's frustrating. Very frustrating. We wouldn't care if it was a friend, but we kind of expect and want someone we're pouring our emotions into to respect it and return the emotion..so it's our little way of manipulation. Passive-Aggressiveness I think.
    Is it that by its indefiniteness it shadows forth the heartless voids and immensities of the universe, and thus stabs us from behind with the thought of annihilation, when beholding the white depths of the milky way?

  8. #48
    Senior Member alexx's Avatar
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    Well - I apologize. I just came across my first Vindictive ENFP. I am so sorry for any sort of pain my type has caused, but I whole-heartedly believe that we can be the biggest jerks in the universe right now.

    I think I want to change my type.

    89% Extroverted ~ 68% Intuition ~ 84% Feeling ~ 89% Perceiving
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  9. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by alexx View Post
    Well - I apologize. I just came across my first Vindictive ENFP. I am so sorry for any sort of pain my type has caused, but I whole-heartedly believe that we can be the biggest jerks in the universe right now.

    I think I want to change my type.
    There's no need to apologise for other members of your type. There are actually over 500,000,000 other members of your type. Some are probably murderers, rapists, serial killers... It means nothing about you. Some are champions of peace, world changers, mentors, comedians... And others are both.
    Freude, schöner Götterfunken Tochter aus Elysium, Wir betreten feuertrunken, Himmlische, dein Heiligtum! Deine Zauber binden wieder Was die Mode streng geteilt; Alle Menschen werden Brüder, Wo dein sanfter Flügel weilt.

  10. #50
    Senior Member thescientist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexx View Post
    Well - I apologize. I just came across my first Vindictive ENFP. I am so sorry for any sort of pain my type has caused, but I whole-heartedly believe that we can be the biggest jerks in the universe right now.

    I think I want to change my type.
    I dont think you should want to change your type. I LOVE your type! I really do.

    I'm just learning to deal with some of the traits of the ENFP. Trust me we INTJ's have plenty of traits to be unproud of as well

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