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[ENFJ] ENFJs, why are you so fake?

Amargith

Hotel California
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*smiles*

It's nice to have that confirmed by an Fe-user. You have no idea how long I've been confused by that, while growing up and later on. They seem so polite and sweet and so sure of themselves you just feel like you somehow deserved what thye're doing, since they're like the 'nice' ones..so it must've been you that somehow fucked up (and the worst part is, they notice they have this effect on you and know how to make it worse and worse even, and feel justified in doing so!). It's also why I wanna get to the bottom of what is Fe, so I can differentiate, and not feel guilty or like I didn't try everything when I don't get on with a Fe-user.


Fwiw, I too can very much understand why someone would *not* wanna be near an exploding Fi-user. Or one that completely lost himself and got stuck in a FiSi loop, as they're like a broken record of negativity. Fi has its very very ugly moments.

...mmm...which beckons the question. Pit, I can see when a Fi-user is going toxic, but also...why. I understand why they're in that predicament often, as I've been there. And, for that matter, I also notice the scared and confused individual underneath it. Instead of actually getting annoyed at them (or I might at first, but quickly catch on), I tend to feel love for them. I feel empathy at that point. And my heart goes out to them, as I know what it's like. That does NOT mean however I'm unaware of the damage they can do and the thread they can pose to your own sanity. Those that are so jaded that they insist on staying in that loop however (out of choice, not coz they don't see a way out), however get on my last nerve as well.


Is it like that for you with Fe-users who display this kind of behavior as well? And if so..could you plz plz plz tell me what it is that makes them do that? What fears and problems and insecurities cause it? How that behavior comes to be? And what on earth makes them so arrogant about the fact they're right in the way they're behaving while making someone else miserable (or do they just appear that way?) IN other words..do they piss you off, or do you find yourself smiling understandingly at them and realizing what's going on and by default somehow know how to handle the situation?
 

swordpath

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Well, somebody's bitter over a recent break up...
 

Sparrow

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I think that ENFJs can be really straight up especially when u challenge our values. I don't see that as fake at all. We do usually like to keep the peace in the group, and are genuine about it and usually very tactful about it, it might seem fake because most other types might not care to go out of their way to create harmony.
 

fill

"Everything in its place"
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"we are what we pretend to be" Kurt Vonnegut

one love.

Uh,

"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful what we pretend to be."

I'm sorry to those I offended with the post title; I believe at the time, I proposed that threads with titles that stuck out tended to get a lot of attention. This thread compliments that proposition.

Let me add: the ENFJ(s) I had in mind while posting this thread I didn't know hardly as well as I do now. The ENFJs I know aren't fake; they're some of the most caring people I know, and they're one of the few people I know that do something when they say they're going to do it. It's a rare day if my ENFJ friends back out of something they promised others they would do.

This, too:

Fe will tend to seem fake to some Ti users. Really not the Fe users' fault.

Great discussion, unfortunately at the expense of others' feelings.
 

Jaguar

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Uh,

"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful what we pretend to be."

I'm sorry to those I offended with the post title; I believe at the time, I proposed that threads with titles that stuck out tended to get a lot of attention. This thread compliments that proposition.

Let me add: the ENFJ(s) I had in mind while posting this thread I didn't know hardly as well as I do now. ENFJs aren't fake; they're some of the most caring people I know, and they're one of the few people I know that do something when they say they're going to do it. It's a rare day if my ENFJ friends back out of something they promised others they would do.

This, too:
Great discussion, unfortunately at the expense of others' feelings. Worth it?

Your honest comments are refreshing.
 

skylights

i love
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I'm sorry to those I offended with the post title; I believe at the time, I proposed that threads with titles that stuck out tended to get a lot of attention. This thread compliments that proposition.

i'm sure you're right, but i'm also sure you've made a lot of people upset in the process.

as to whether that's worth it... well, F and T would probably give different answers, wouldn't they? :)
 

You

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A bad ENFJ, a fake one, deserves to get punched in the face. They are the bad aftertaste ones that were talked about earlier. I'm not a violent person - for the most part - but nothing makes me more mad than fake sweet people. I can handle peoplpe guising like they have control, or faking strengths, because I can see through that, but to take advantange of righteous behavior aligns you with pure evil in my opinion.

i.e Hitler.
 

Jaguar

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A bad ENFJ, a fake one, deserves to get punched in the face. They are the bad aftertaste ones that were talked about earlier. I'm not a violent person - for the most part - but nothing makes me more mad than fake sweet people. I can handle peoplpe guising like they have control, or faking strengths, because I can see through that, but to take advantange of righteous behavior aligns you with pure evil in my opinion.

i.e Hitler.


Take off the 4 letters and what you posted could apply to anyone- and that means you. ENFPs are as capable of being fake as anyone else. They're human.
 

Sparrow

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A bad ENFJ, a fake one, deserves to get punched in the face. They are the bad aftertaste ones that were talked about earlier. I'm not a violent person - for the most part - but nothing makes me more mad than fake sweet people. I can handle peoplpe guising like they have control, or faking strengths, because I can see through that, but to take advantange of righteous behavior aligns you with pure evil in my opinion.

i.e Hitler.

Wait, hitler wasn't an enfj was he? Anyway what u wrote kinda reminds me of racism or being prejudice, but with types instead :( do u have anything nice to say about an enfj if so please counteract what you send with something nice please! We are going backwards in this thread!

"bum bum...what a bum bum...bum bum bila bum bum" Sista Nancy song reference ;)
 

Sparrow

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It's like me saying: But a bad <<insert race here>> is evil. In relation to
what jaguar said...there can be evil people in every race.
 

Jaguar

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Wait, hitler wasn't an enfj was he? Anyway what u wrote kinda reminds me of racism or being prejudice, but with types instead :( do u have anything nice to say about an enfj is so please counteract what you send with something nice please! We are going backwards in this thread!

"bum bum...what a bum bum...bum bum bila bum bum" Sista Nancy song reference ;)


Sure, didn't you know Hitler was ENFJ? He took an MBTI test, self-validated, and agreed with the function order. Then he announced his decision to the world.
How could you not know that? ;)
 

Sparrow

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Sure, didn't you know Hitler was ENFJ? He took an MBTI test, self-validated, and agreed with the function order. Then he announced his decision to the world.
How could you not know that? ;)
ew bummer, that mofo gives us a bad rep!!!
 

Siúil a Rúin

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Things are pretty fucked up when..

You are open, genuine, complimentary,engaging, polite and generally concerned that people are comfortable in your presence.
And this is called fake??

I disagree..

It's simply humanity VS the animals.

Choose your side well.
People who are fake themselves are more likely to interpret others as fake. It is the genuine person who often assumes genuineness in others. Even people who have been on the negative receiving end of "fakeness" will have internalized it in some way. That is typically how a behavior is learned. So by encountering fakeness, feeling hurt or violated by it, the next phase is anger, and the next step is to feel entitled to make snap judgments about others, and finally to punish these "lesser humans" which often results in becoming precisely a mirror image of this "lesser human". This same process applies to any destructive character trait. The process leads to a sense of false superiority rather than understanding the initial perpetrator. Anger and fear lead to blindness instead of insight. It is almost a strangely inverted empathy when a person actually becomes what they hate instead of working towards a deeper understanding the behavior they reject.

The people who rage against entire categories of unknown persons as fake raise a red flag in my mind. There are many reasons why people would do this and there are not certain conclusions to be drawn from a single occurrence, but that attitude implies they are engulfed in the above process and I would need much more data before I could trust them to be sincere.
 

Sparrow

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^not an enfj trait at all. if he was one then he was a mentally insane one lol. im so gullible ;)
 
G

Glycerine

Guest
Fake ENFJs use Fe as a vehicle for their fake-ness, but ENFJs, by themselves, aren't fake.
That's what I was attempting to say with my deleted reply to Satine.
 

Sparrow

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People who are fake themselves are more likely to interpret others as fake. It is the genuine person who often assumes genuineness in others. Even people who have been on the negative receiving end of "fakeness" will have internalized it in some way. That is typically how a behavior is learned. So by encountering fakeness, feeling hurt or violated by it, the next phase is anger, and the next step is to feel entitled to make snap judgments about others, and finally to punish these "lesser humans" which often results in becoming precisely a mirror image of this "lesser human". This same process applies to any destructive character trait. The process leads to a sense of false superiority rather than understanding the initial perpetrator. Anger and fear lead to blindness instead of insight. It is almost a strangely inverted empathy when a person actually becomes what they hate instead of working towards a deeper understanding the behavior they reject.

The people who rage against entire categories of unknown persons as fake raise a red flag in my mind. There are many reasons why people would do this and there are not certain conclusions to be drawn from a single occurrence, but that attitude implies they are engulfed in the above process and I would need much more data before I could trust them to be sincere.


well said :)
 

You

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Take off the 4 letters and what you posted could apply to anyone- and that means you. ENFPs are as capable of being fake as anyone else. They're human.

Definitely. Which is the point. No one likes being manipulated. I'm not big on calling people fake, but when I come to realization that someone is just messing with me I have this deep pain, and next...a deep hate.

Wait, hitler wasn't an enfj was he? Anyway what u wrote kinda reminds me of racism or being prejudice, but with types instead :( do u have anything nice to say about an enfj if so please counteract what you send with something nice please! We are going backwards in this thread!

"bum bum...what a bum bum...bum bum bila bum bum" Sista Nancy song reference ;)


I apologize, but thats not what I meant. I was pointing out "fakeness" or any of that sort of behavior is lame. Jaguar put it best, as manipulative behavior doesn't know types, it knows humans.
 

Sparrow

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Definitely. Which is the point. No one likes being manipulated. I'm not big on calling people fake, but when I come to realization that someone is just messing with me I have this deep pain, and next...a deep hate.




I apologize, but thats not what I meant. I was pointing out "fakeness" or any of that sort of behavior is lame. Jaguar put it best, as manipulative behavior doesn't know types, it knows humans.

Its all good brudda! :wubbie:
 

luminous beam

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I think both ENFJs and INFJs (yes, my own type) can have this problem. It's not one of our prouder suits, but I've seen people of both types put on masks, compliment and hang out with people they can't stand. It's not to say these are the only types that do that, and NFJs tend to do it with the intention of not hurting other people.

There are some people I can't stand but can wear a mask of approval around them. If they knew how I really felt about them they'd either be deeply hurt inside, angry or both. It's usually because I don't want to hurt their feelings or be in conflict with them when it's not necessary. INFJs are great at hiding things if we feel an incentive to do so. We'll complain to our trusted allies but it'll stay there. We also use people as chess pieces sometimes to get what we want.

My mother is ENFJ. I used to be annoyed by her as she came across as insincere sometimes. Other people didn't notice it but because I know her so well I did and it really narked me. But you have to stop and think, why are they doing that? My mother just wants to be loved. That's all. And she is just trying to please people. She's not doing it because she's manipulative and is trying to get things out of people and hurt them. She just wants to be liked. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I do it sometimes myself.

I pretend a lot at the office. I kind of dislike all of my co-workers ha. I have nothing against the type of people they are in general, I think they're nice ladies...but I'm bored as fuck of them always talking about stuff I could care less about like 'real tv,' babies and exchanging recipes. Anyhow, the point is I still at times have to join in their conversations and pretend I give importance to the stuff they do. Why do I play along with them (as an INFP)? To avoid conflict, hurt feelings and getting written up at work, primarily for demeaning someone ha. Why would an xNFJ do this? Most likely for the same reasons I would, except they may give more weight to the desire of being well liked and having a place of belonging amongst their peers etc. That's something I care less about, I don't desire to fit into a group of people I don't have much in common with who I may find boring...rather be alone. I also would rather pretend I'm busy and try to avoid engaging with my co-workers, than have to sit through one of their lame convos smiling :cheese: and pretending I give a damn.
 
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