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  1. #231
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    *mulls*

    I just thought about the way your Fe works. Question: when you do call out the 'flaws' in people, do you do this becoz at that point there is no common goal at stake and you care enough about them to try and mend this, before the next 'crisis' so to speak?

    And do you truly consider them flaws, things to be rectified and improved as they can be a weakness towards the common goal for the group? Is that the point of what I perceive as 'judging' others? Coz that *almost* makes sense to me.

    The thing is, if this is what is going on, I find it hard to swallow as I'm very aware of my flaws and working at them. I just experience it as rubbing salt into the wound. But I guess you do that coz you want to make them aware or remind them to fix it?

    Also...what do you expect people to do with those comments? Coz...I mean, when you call someone on their weakness, I find that usually no instructions are given as to how to deal with it and rectify it. You'll encourage people to be the best they can but that only supresses the problem imo, and avoids it, instead of untangling the knot. I guess I can see it working on smaller issues. *ponders*

    How is one to proceed after getting one of those comments? What do you expect others to do with that comment? Address it on their own at their own discretion? Ask around and ask for help from the community? Suck it up? Or do you actually walk them through the path of self-discovery (which I consider Fi..)

    Sorry, dunno if this is the right thread, but these are thoughts that came after I wrote the post that compared Te and Fe.
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  2. #232
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    I think it is possible that it is not the flaw that is being judged or being called out. But rather behavior relating to the flaw.

    For example I can have a short temper, this can be seen as a flaw and rightly so. But It's not that I have a short temper that would bother you or cause strife to anyone else.. unless I act on it.

    There is a massive difference between saying "you are being stupid" and "you are stupid"

    Correct your behavior.. it's not the same as saying you are flawed

  3. #233
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Domino View Post
    We have the "Get it done" switch, or in more hair-trigger times, the "guillotine" button. Off with their heads.

  4. #234
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    To be honest I would not say that ENFJs are fake since I think that there is one catch here.


    The advertising intustry fakes Fe all the time and they are doing it without a pause. Plus they are trying really hard to mimic that warm motherly feeling that people usually miss in their lives.

    Also in bussines environment it became normal to fake some level of Fe so that you look more polite than you are.


    So when a ENFJ actually uses its original Fe it has the taste of fakeness and fraud.

  5. #235
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arclight View Post
    I think it is possible that it is not the flaw that is being judged or being called out. But rather behavior relating to the flaw.

    For example I can have a short temper, this can be seen as a flaw and rightly so. But It's not that I have a short temper that would bother you or cause strife to anyone else.. unless I act on it.

    There is a massive difference between saying "you are being stupid" and "you are stupid"

    Correct your behavior.. it's not the same as saying you are flawed
    i can totally hear an NFJ i know saying this. like, this exact same thing.

    it's a fair point, and certainly one Fi dom/aux could use to work on.

    though at the same time, i feel like because your behavior is an extension of yourself, to a certain extent saying "correct your behavior" is saying "you need to change your self (but that's your problem, not mine)".

    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    To be honest I would not say that ENFJs are fake since I think that there is one catch here.

    The advertising intustry fakes Fe all the time and they are doing it without a pause. Plus they are trying really hard to mimic that warm motherly feeling that people usually miss in their lives.

    Also in bussines environment it became normal to fake some level of Fe so that you look more polite than you are.

    So when a ENFJ actually uses its original Fe it has the taste of fakeness and fraud.
    this is a good point.

    i don't feel like it's usually why Fe feels fake to me (which is not often) - but it could certainly contribute to some people's feeling that way. i can't really speak for all Fi dom/aux but it's really no question to me when industry is trying to fake things. i don't feel warm nuturing feelings from advertisement, i just get the feeling that they want me to associate warm nuturing feelings with their product. which sometimes i do, but it rarely has anything to do with the advertising itself. more just with the associations i've developed on my own.

    to me Fe feeling fake is similar to my problem with Arclight's reasoning above - i feel like sometimes it overlooks the importance of identity. i feel like sometimes Fe can overlook the needs of others' deepest selves and one's own deepest self sometimes too. it does a very good job of taking care of you but it doesn't always help you address the hard things that need to be addressed - like why you have that short temper to begin with, and how it can be dealt with, so you can not fight against it and tame it, but rather come to terms with it and change it at a very fundamental level. but of course, the sin of Fi is to obsess over the deepest self too much and forget to take care of people on a more warm fuzzy level, which is unquestionably important. we would wither without it.

    and i am an ENFJ fan. so no hard feelings from me

  6. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    i can totally hear an NFJ i know saying this. like, this exact same thing.

    it's a fair point, and certainly one Fi dom/aux could use to work on.

    though at the same time, i feel like because your behavior is an extension of yourself, to a certain extent saying "correct your behavior" is saying "you need to change your self".
    I just recently, made a post in a completely unrelated thread, but I think it might explain the same concept just in different words.. I at least make a connection anyway.

    Your Core is your core.. but your behavior is somewhat fluid and dependent on your circumstances.

    How much can outside influences shape our behavior? We are equipped with several points of stimuli receptors and an emotional and mental capacity to process stimulus based information.
    Then there is the concept of homeostasis which is the state of all things being in perfect working condition internally.
    Then You are who you are.

    But each day, both positive and negative circumstances influence our state of balance. And thus take us away from the core of who we are, or move us closer toward it.

    I am not a liar.. but if every day, telling a lie insures my survival , then I am going to lie. (like in the instance of pledging allegiance to some political maniac who will kill me if I don't sort of thing)

    Here is the post I am talking about
    Quote Originally Posted by Arclight View Post
    You can't label someone with this stuff entirely because,

    We're always changing .. we adapt to our circumstances and environment.
    Our morality,interests, temperament, status, confidence, mental state, ideals, manners, mannerisms, critiques, desires and fears (just to name a few)
    are dependent on what is going on around us now and the likely possibilities of what is to come.
    Our preferences are based mostly on the past and require constant inventory to be up to date if our behavior is to be congruent with our values.

    Of course there is always our personal genetic template that has an influence and it has to be considered.
    But nature VS Nurture studies indicate that the gap is never more than 60-40 in either direction with most settling on a 50-50 split..

    So Half of who and what we are is transient ,unpredictable and based on our present and possible circumstances.

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